I wish this case was not in D.C. but it is a start. If the vaccine group looses here, it's over for them. Suits will be coming out of the woodwork. We have seen reports where this happened all over the country, somebody set them up for this.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-03-09-mom-sues-doctor-children-covid-vaccines-without-consent.html

Quote(Natural News) NaTonya McNeil, a mother of two teenage children who were secretly given Wuhan coronavirus (Covid-19) "vaccines" without her permission, is suing the doctor responsible.

Janine A. Rethy, MD, MPH reportedly lied to and tricked McNeil's two older children during their annual physical exam at the KIDS Mobile Medical Clinic / Ronald McDonald Care Mobile clinic, operated by Georgetown Hospital in Washington, D.C.

Quote from: ZenMode on March 04, 2023, 04:34:13 AMThe fact that you only believe "your" sources isn't a reflection on their quality/honesty. It's simply a choice you've made to believe sources that are even more dishonest than those you claim to boycott for their dishonesty.

Ok so first you claim 1 million died from covid and we ask you to prove that.
Then you cite sources that make that same claim, but show no actual evidence, so we ask you to prove their and your claim, falling into the Appeal to Authority Fallacy.
Then you try to deflect by claiming that its the norm, without showing any proof that it was the norm or that they used the norm, falling into the Appeal to Tradition Fallacy.
Then we give you multiple examples of the norm not being followed as well as official sources saying otherwise(which is your standard).
Then you try to bow out completely by putting credentialism over credibility and claiming that "But but but, I tust muh sources!", using the Truth is Subjective Fallacy aka the Relativist Fallacy.
Basically we caught you jumping from one fallacy to another....

Well, at least we got you to basically admit your claim that 1 million died from covid cannot be backed by facts or evidence and is just based on your subjective feelings.
Oh, and also that you blindly trust your sources despite them not offering any facts or evidence to support the claim you parroted. Good job.              

Quote from: T Hunt on March 10, 2023, 07:11:13 AMOk so first you claim 1 million died from covid and we ask you to prove that.
Then you cite sources that make that same claim, but show no actual evidence, so we ask you to prove their and your claim, falling into the Appeal to Authority Fallacy.

The CDC tracks deaths by dozens of illnesses and medical conditions.  Is it safe to assume that you believe NONE of them because you haven't see the evidence you want?

QuoteThen you try to deflect by claiming that its the norm, without showing any proof that it was the norm or that they used the norm, falling into the Appeal to Tradition Fallacy.

Yes, the cdc tracking causes of death is "the norm".  They've been doing it for decades.  Why is it that only now you start questioning it?

QuoteThen we give you multiple examples of the norm not being followed as well as official sources saying otherwise(which is your standard).
Then you try to bow out completely by putting credentialism over credibility and claiming that "But but but, I tust muh sources!", using the Truth is Subjective Fallacy aka the Relativist Fallacy.
Basically we caught you jumping from one fallacy to another....

Well, at least we got you to basically admit your claim that 1 million died from covid cannot be backed by facts or evidence and is just based on your subjective feelings.
Oh, and also that you blindly trust your sources despite them not offering any facts or evidence to support the claim you parroted. Good job.              

Yes.  There are norms and then there are exceptions to the norm.  Somewhere around 90-95% of humans are heterosexual.  That is the norm.  There are exceptions to the sexual preference norm - it's called homosexuality.  Should I believe that the existence of the abnormal - homosexuals - means that the norm doesn't exist?

That was rhetorical, btw because the answer is obvious.

Quote from: ZenMode on March 10, 2023, 08:37:34 AMThe CDC tracks deaths by dozens of illnesses and medical conditions.  Is it safe to assume that you believe NONE of them because you haven't see the evidence you want? Yes, the cdc tracking causes of death is "the norm".  They've been doing it for decades.  Why is it that only now you start questioning it?
Yes.  There are norms and then there are exceptions to the norm.  Somewhere around 90-95% of humans are heterosexual.  That is the norm.  There are exceptions to the sexual preference norm - it's called homosexuality.  Should I believe that the existence of the abnormal - homosexuals - means that the norm doesn't exist?

That was rhetorical, btw because the answer is obvious.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/29/us_covid-19_death_toll_is_inflated.html

Quote"The case definition is very simplistic," Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Department of Public Health, explains. "It means, at the time of death, it was a COVID positive diagnosis. That means, that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means, technically even if you died of [a] clear alternative cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death."

QuoteMedical examiners from Colorado to Michigan use the same definition. In Macomb and Oakland counties in Michigan, where most of the deaths in that state occurred, medical examiners classify any death as a coronavirus death when the postmortem test is positive. Even people who died in suicides and automobile accidents meet that definition.

https://survivaltricks.wordpress.com/2021/05/17/cdc-director-walensky-admits-covid-deaths-inflated-6-of-all-deaths-attributed-to-covid-19-were-covid-only-94-percent-had-2-to-3-serious-ailments-and-were-mostly-aged-citizen-wells/

QuoteCDC director Walensky admits Covid deaths inflated, 6% of all deaths attributed to COVID-19 were Covid only, 94 percent had 2 to 3 serious ailments and were mostly aged | Citizen WElls

Quote"Based on CDC numbers in Ausust  only 6% of all deaths attributed to COVID-19 were instances where the only factor in the individual's death was due to COVI9-19."

https://www.freedomfoundation.com/press-release/death-certificate-analysis-shows-washingtons-covid-19-death-count-remains-inflated/

QuoteSeven months after a Freedom Foundation investigation showed it was inflating the number of COVID-19 fatalities in Washington state and promising to fix its flawed reporting procedures, further research indicates the state's Department of Health (DOH) is still over-reporting the totals by potentially hundreds of deaths.

https://www.westernjournal.com/right-experts-confirm-covid-deaths-massively-inflated-actual-numbers-dramatically-lower-official-count/

QuoteWe Were Right: Experts Confirm COVID Deaths Massively Inflated, Actual Numbers Dramatically Lower Than Official Count

QuoteBut those words were spoken Friday by University of California San Francisco professor of medicine Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease expert. She was speaking to San Francisco's KPIX-TV regarding the announcement that Santa Clara County, California, had revised its official COVID-19 death toll downward by 22 percent.

Want to know who still claims the number of deaths is accurate?  N.Y.Times, factcheck, USA TODAY, Washington post, ETC. all fakenews organizations who are extreme leftist.

Again, it doesn't matter what the subject, you bring nothing. If you can prove your point, do so, otherwise why are you discussing it?

Quote from: Possum on March 10, 2023, 08:57:18 AMhttps://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/29/us_covid-19_death_toll_is_inflated.html

https://survivaltricks.wordpress.com/2021/05/17/cdc-director-walensky-admits-covid-deaths-inflated-6-of-all-deaths-attributed-to-covid-19-were-covid-only-94-percent-had-2-to-3-serious-ailments-and-were-mostly-aged-citizen-wells/


https://www.freedomfoundation.com/press-release/death-certificate-analysis-shows-washingtons-covid-19-death-count-remains-inflated/

https://www.westernjournal.com/right-experts-confirm-covid-deaths-massively-inflated-actual-numbers-dramatically-lower-official-count/

Want to know who still claims the number of deaths is accurate?  N.Y.Times, factcheck, USA TODAY, Washington post, ETC. all fakenews organizations who are extreme leftist.

Again, it doesn't matter what the subject, you bring nothing. If you can prove your point, do so, otherwise why are you discussing it?

This is/these are great examples of trusting anything and not taking the time to truly understand.

#1: "The case definition is very simplistic," Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Department of Public Health, explains. "It means, at the time of death, it was a COVID positive diagnosis. That means, that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means, technically even if you died of [a] clear alternative cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death."

It took me minutes to find details on what was clearly a cherry-picked quote.  Dr. Ezike was talking about what was happening VERY early on in the Covid pandemic - specifically April 2020.  If you read the link below, it states that the issue was corrected and she also notes that there were many covid deaths early that were not documented because the ability to test was so limited.  It's also mentioned that they are reviewing death certificates to correct mistakes.

https://www.sj-r.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/11/06/illinois-strives-accurate-covid-death-numbers-idph-official-says/6300269001/.

#2: "Based on CDC numbers in Ausust  only 6% of all deaths attributed to COVID-19 were instances where the only factor in the individual's death was due to COVI9-19."

This is nothing new with viruses. The seasonal flu impacts the elderly much more so than any other group.  Covid impacted the elderly and obese - often both of those people have underlying health issues.   These people wouldn't have died if not for Covid, much like many elderly wouldn't have died if not for the flu.

#3: "But those words were spoken Friday by University of California San Francisco professor of medicine Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease expert. She was speaking to San Francisco's KPIX-TV regarding the announcement that Santa Clara County, California, had revised its official COVID-19 death toll downward by 22 percent."

This is the same as what happened in Illinois and other states EARLY ON IN THE PANDEMIC. The article you link calls out what exactly was changed and the circumstances surrounding the change:

Before refining its approach, the county had recorded 2,201 COVID deaths. Now, that's been reduced to 1,696.

"It is important to go back and do this accounting to see if COVID was actually the cause of death," Gandhi said, according to KPIX.

Why don't you seek to understand the full story and context of these situations?

Quote from: ZenMode on March 10, 2023, 09:42:02 AMWhy don't you seek to understand the full story and context of these situations?

You mean why do I not post what you want to believe? These "stories" are the result of research. They are the result of digging for facts. They tell the facts. The CDC has been caught in several lies, this is just one more to add to the list. You are the blind one here. If I am wrong, surly you can post the evidence that the CDC did not cheat the numbers. By the way, caught up on your jabs yet?

Quote from: Possum on March 10, 2023, 10:52:24 AMYou mean why do I not post what you want to believe? These "stories" are the result of research. They are the result of digging for facts. They tell the facts. The CDC has been caught in several lies, this is just one more to add to the list. You are the blind one here. If I am wrong, surly you can post the evidence that the CDC did not cheat the numbers. By the way, caught up on your jabs yet?

These stories contain facts, which are being horribly misrepresented.  The fact that several states apparently had data collection/accuracy issues early on in the pandemic, which they corrected, doesn't mean they're lying and it doesn't mean the pandemic wasn't multiple times more deadly than the flu.

Quote from: ZenMode on March 10, 2023, 02:29:48 PMThese stories contain facts, which are being horribly misrepresented.  The fact that several states apparently had data collection/accuracy issues early on in the pandemic, which they corrected, doesn't mean they're lying and it doesn't mean the pandemic wasn't multiple times more deadly than the flu.

You didn't post your source.

Quote from: Possum on March 10, 2023, 03:05:34 PMYou didn't post your source.

My sources are your articles.  I didn't find my own sources. I only pointed out info in your links.

Quote from: ZenMode on March 11, 2023, 09:29:02 AMMy sources are your articles.  I didn't find my own sources. I only pointed out info in your links.

You're lying. You are trying to assume and pretend it is a fact that the miscounts were by accident. They weren't. They were told how to log the deaths in. The CDC did everything they could to increase the death counts even up to the point of murdering nursing home patients. Zen, too much goes right over your head. All of this has been posted and talked about several times in several posts. You can not seem to grasp it.

Quote from: Possum on March 11, 2023, 10:54:15 AMYou're lying. You are trying to assume and pretend it is a fact that the miscounts were by accident. They weren't. They were told how to log the deaths in. The CDC did everything they could to increase the death counts even up to the point of murdering nursing home patients. Zen, too much goes right over your head. All of this has been posted and talked about several times in several posts. You can not seem to grasp it.

it's an opinion. It can't be a lie by definition. Unless you have some other details, everything you claimed as fact above is also only an opinion. When I look at the details of the situation, which includes the overall chaotic circumstances of the pandemic and the well documented lack of testing, I don't see anything surprising that some states had inaccuracies with documenting deaths early on.

Quote from: ZenMode on March 11, 2023, 02:49:18 PMit's an opinion. It can't be a lie by definition. Unless you have some other details, everything you claimed as fact above is also only an opinion. When I look at the details of the situation, which includes the overall chaotic circumstances of the pandemic and the well documented lack of testing, I don't see anything surprising that some states had inaccuracies with documenting deaths early on.

Bull sh-t.  Five state governors packed nursing homes with people sick with covid against the will of the nursing home. The resulting deaths accounted for 40% for the covid deaths at the time.

The CDC gave strict orders how to document deaths where covid was involved, if the deceased had covid, the death was to be listed as from covid, regardless of cause of death. THOSE ARE NOT OPINIONS, THOSE ARE FACT.

THESE WERE DONE TO BOOST THE DEATH COUNT!!!!!

Zen, we're getting tired of your lies.

Quote from: Possum on March 11, 2023, 03:52:25 PMBull sh-t.  Five state governors packed nursing homes with people sick with covid against the will of the nursing home. The resulting deaths accounted for 40% for the covid deaths at the time.

The CDC gave strict orders how to document deaths where covid was involved, if the deceased had covid, the death was to be listed as from covid, regardless of cause of death. THOSE ARE NOT OPINIONS, THOSE ARE FACT.

THESE WERE DONE TO BOOST THE DEATH COUNT!!!!!

Zen, we're getting tired of your lies.

THESE WERE DONE TO BOOST THE DEATH COUNT!!!!!

That is an opinion, not a fact.  I'm not lying by giving my opinion and more than you are lying with your opinion.

Quote from: ZenMode on March 11, 2023, 06:11:47 PMTHESE WERE DONE TO BOOST THE DEATH COUNT!!!!!

That is an opinion, not a fact.  I'm not lying by giving my opinion and more than you are lying with your opinion.

They admitted it!!! IT has been posted for you.

Quote from: Possum on March 12, 2023, 04:23:12 AMThey admitted it!!! IT has been posted for you.

They admitted to intentionally mis-labeling deaths as COVID deaths to artificially boost death numbers or did they admitted, early on, that some deaths were mis-labeled and they took steps to fix it?