Quote from: ZenMode on December 14, 2022, 03:16:01 PMAgain  I don't care what churches do. If every church got together and said "We are not going to do one more gay marriage ceremony" I don't care. That is completely separate from the state legally recognizing two people agreeing to enter into a legally binding agreement.

So again, why wont you explain why the need for the state to redefine marriage by removing it?

Quote from: ZenMode on December 14, 2022, 03:20:03 PMAnimals can't consent to marriage or sex.

So their owners can consent for them so moot point.

QuoteChildren can't either.

But why are you discriminating against those who cant give consent?

Quotehere are genetic reproductive issues if cousins or closer procreate.

Yes health problems, just like with gays and trans. So again, why are you CHOOSING to discriminate against cousins? Dont they have the equal rights to gays?

Quote from: ZenMode on December 14, 2022, 03:16:01 PMAgain  I don't care what churches do. If every church got together and said "We are not going to do one more gay marriage ceremony" I don't care. That is completely separate from the state legally recognizing two people agreeing to enter into a legally binding agreement.

And THAT IS NOT WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. Government is not recognizing two people agreeing to enter into a legally binding agreement, they are using the word marriage. Have you not been paying attention? You are the one who is living in some little world that does not see the reality of what is going on. How could you, YOU CAN NOT EVEN SAY WHAT THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE IS. So either you don't care what your government does or what institutions it tramples on, or you want to see religion go away. Take the damn blinders off and see what is going on.

Quote from: Possum on December 14, 2022, 03:31:47 PMAnd THAT IS NOT WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. Government is not recognizing two people agreeing to enter into a legally binding agreement, they are using the word marriage. Have you not been paying attention? You are the one who is living in some little world that does not see the reality of what is going on. How could you, YOU CAN NOT EVEN SAY WHAT THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE IS. So either you don't care what your government does or what institutions it tramples on, or you want to see religion go away. Take the damn blinders off and see what is going on.

He doesnt realize that history shows us that when you remove religion from govt you always end up with communism or fascism. Every. Single. Time.

Quote from: Possum on December 14, 2022, 03:31:47 PMAnd THAT IS NOT WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. Government is not recognizing two people agreeing to enter into a legally binding agreement, they are using the word marriage. Have you not been paying attention? You are the one who is living in some little world that does not see the reality of what is going on. How could you, YOU CAN NOT EVEN SAY WHAT THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE IS. So either you don't care what your government does or what institutions it tramples on, or you want to see religion go away. Take the damn blinders off and see what is going on.

Which is why I have said, pretty sure my first post, that I want to get government out of marriage. That way everyone is happy.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 14, 2022, 03:39:17 PMWhich is why I have said, pretty sure my first post, that I want to get government out of marriage. That way everyone is happy.

But they wont be happy from redefining marriage. In fact that will make most people mad and only a very very small amount happy.

Quote from: T Hunt on December 14, 2022, 03:35:12 PMHe doesnt realize that history shows us that when you remove religion from govt you always end up with communism or fascism. Every. Single. Time.

And I believe he is fine with that.

Quote from: T Hunt on December 14, 2022, 03:41:22 PMBut they wont be happy from redefining marriage. In fact that will make most people mad and only a very very small amount happy.

Well, if the government gets out or marriage, "they" will have no choice. It's already been ruled that Christians can't be forced to do transgender surgeries, so there's absolutely no reason to believe they've forced to perform religious ceremonies.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 14, 2022, 03:39:17 PMWhich is why I have said, pretty sure my first post, that I want to get government out of marriage. That way everyone is happy.

And just how are you going to tell all the radicals, all the gays, all the lesbians, who have rioted and marched and burned down buildings and interrupted countless meetings that they can no longer get married LIKE THEIR GOVERNMENT HAS PROMISED THEY COULD? I asked you before, WHAT WORLD DO YOU LIVE IN?  One of make believe? One of pretend? I was raised on a farm, I still live on one, I know bull shit when I see it and b.s. is all you write. there has only been one comment you have posted that said what you believe, "freedom is allowing consenting adults to form a legal bond with whoever they want, not who Christians want." In other words, you want Christians out of the decision making. All of the rest of this nonsense you have been posting is plain and simple B.S.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 14, 2022, 03:52:18 PMWell, if the government gets out or marriage, "they" will have no choice. It's already been ruled that Christians can't be forced to do transgender surgeries, so there's absolutely no reason to believe they've forced to perform religious ceremonies.

I think you misread what I wrote.
Your proposal would only make a small fringe happy while most american would be against it. Gays make up a very small percentage and not even all them want 'gay marriage', so your proposal would only be of benefit to less than 1% of society while doing damage to the other 99%.

Again I ask tho, under your proposal why do you discriminate against pedophiles and cousins, etc?

Quote from: T Hunt on December 14, 2022, 04:48:33 PMI think you misread what I wrote.
Your proposal would only make a small fringe happy while most american would be against it. Gays make up a very small percentage and not even all them want 'gay marriage', so your proposal would only be of benefit to less than 1% of society while doing damage to the other 99%.

Again I ask tho, under your proposal why do you discriminate against pedophiles and cousins, etc?

I don't much care about feelings. Religious people would be happy because they get to have their straight wedding ceremonies, gays would be happy because they get to have their relationship legally acknowledged.

What's the issue?

Quote from: ZenMode on December 14, 2022, 05:19:16 PMI don't much care about feelings. Religious people would be happy because they get to have their straight wedding ceremonies, gays would be happy because they get to have their relationship legally acknowledged.

What's the issue?

The issue is gays CAN ALREADY GET MARRIED IN ALL STATES. You are trying to come up with a way where they could not get married but could get a civil union or some other damn name and blame it on the Christians. Your bull sh-t is way too easy to see through. You are fooling NOBODY here! If you are not living in a Marxist country, move to one, they hate Christians as much as you do. Just be sure to duck when you start talking all this B.S., shots will be coming.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 14, 2022, 05:19:16 PMI don't much care about feelings. Religious people would be happy because they get to have their straight wedding ceremonies, gays would be happy because they get to have their relationship legally acknowledged.

What's the issue?

Because you just redefined marriage for the Christians.

Legally acknowledged=redefining marriage for Christians. Since you took marriage out of the legal system. Thus equating civil unions and actual marriage.

We are all part of the same legal system. If the system is forced to acknowledge it, then all the Christians who are part of that same legal system are forced to acknowledge it as well, thus redefining it for the Christians, which is unconstitutional.



And you still havent explained why you are discriminating against pedophiles and cousins. Why do they not deserve equal rights to gays and trans?

Quote from: ZenMode on December 14, 2022, 03:20:03 PMAnimals can't consent to marriage or sex.

Children can't either.

There are genetic reproductive issues if cousins or closer procreate.

Based on your reasoning, they should be able to.