I grew up a Liberal.

Not just any liberal, but hard core, defend democratic/socialist values, get even with THE MAN, screw the rich, and naturally dated plenty of them.
Terrible lovers, liberal women are just miserable, self-loathing - don't kid yourself, they're the ones with all the hangups.

Grow up in an area where all-you-hear is Liberalism and Conservationism is akin to NPR - seriously, I thought NPR was conservative in the '70s, and William F. Buckley was a freak of nature... but when I could understand him, he was kinda smart.

The change in stages.

1. Get married, start making REAL money, and paying taxes - OUCH!!!   Why am I paying for some nare-do-well sitting on a porch smoking weed, while I trudge off to work?  And they have the balls to say I don't care, and want everything I worked so hard for?

call it materialism - I call it property rights.  It's my right to share, not your's to just take it.

2.  Start a business, struggle under all the laws and regulations holding you back.  Pay huge amounts of insurance for the chance some knucklehead is going to do something STUPID and sue.

call it greed - I call it self-preservation.  My gun protects me from thugs, but nothing can protect you from a pack or lawyers and stupid jury.

3.  Start a family, and suddenly realize the schools WANT your children as little Liberal soldiers for themselves!  Indoctrinated to think and act like obedient little serfs, with no chance of ever exercising their rights as Americans.

call it racist, anti-one-worldly - I call it my family, and in this world, I'm raising them to be ADULTS, who have an entrepreneurial spirit, equipped & educated to work for themselves or for someone else, and not be dependent on anyone.

4.  Proof of concept, years of Liberalism... does not work, it enslaves you to work harder for less and feel guilty because you somehow have it "better" - but, in fact, you don't.

call it history - I call it learning the hard way.  That Social Security you've faithfully paid into, the 401K you've trusted in for retirement, Pension - history ought to tell you by now, the government is COMING FOR IT - they have a "history" of raiding your wealth, directly or indirectly through TAXES and INFLATION.  Argentina, yeah, remember Hillary Clinton praising Christina?  I do!

So why be a TEA, Constitutional Conservative?           
besides the women being incredible lovers?  and self-confident, good looking, true feminism?

Where do we get our freedom and liberty from?  Government or is it spelled out in the Constitution as a God given right?
Liberals, by their very nature, wish to grant you rights, and mold you into a useful citizen, citizen for the world or a foot soldier for their causes.  Look at the laws they push, the so called rights they use to supplant your constitutional rights.  Liberalism survives and thrives on USING people as RESOURCES - an attempt to strip away their individualism and God given rights.

Example:  In our county, by state law we can home school our kids.  The only state requirement, we submit an annual "notice of intent" and proficiency tests.  What does the local school board do...?  Every year, they reply with a "letter of approval" - and add a bunch of stuff we are not required by the state to do, but they want us to to.  That's an example of creeping liberalism, slowly imposing their will, and ignoring your rights... conform, conform, conform.

Realize your constitutional rights are natural, common sense, God given rights - read the document, it's like someone left the pasture gate open, and instead of eating Dandylions, you see Alfalfa for the first time.

Have you taken a few moments and just READ the Bill of Rights? 
It'll almost make you cry, we've gone so far from it, and the meaning is so simple and clear.

So when was the magic moment you realized the Dim party was the enemy?

My parents were Democrats in their youth. They were big supporters of JFK. I was 6 years old when JFK was assassinated and I remember my mom crying her eyes out for days and watching the funeral on our black and white TV.

I think as they raised their family they had the same aha moments that Hoofer experienced and they left the party and became Republicans. Lucky for me they felt politics were family discussion material. Before every election, even before we were old enough to vote, we had to decide on our candidate and give reasoned arguments for why we would vote for them based on the issues. My dad said he didn't care who we were voting for as long as we could explain why based on the issues. It made us look beyond appearances and hype. I'm very thankful that my parents showed us the importance of choosing a candidate based on reason and not just emotion.  I miss them dearly.

Quote from: Hoofer on April 12, 2016, 06:46:53 PM
I grew up a Liberal.

Not just any liberal, but hard core, defend democratic/socialist values, get even with THE MAN, screw the rich, and naturally dated plenty of them.
Terrible lovers, liberal women are just miserable, self-loathing - don't kid yourself, they're the ones with all the hangups.

Grow up in an area where all-you-hear is Liberalism and Conservationism is akin to NPR - seriously, I thought NPR was conservative in the '70s, and William F. Buckley was a freak of nature... but when I could understand him, he was kinda smart.

The change in stages.

1. Get married, start making REAL money, and paying taxes - OUCH!!!   Why am I paying for some nare-do-well sitting on a porch smoking weed, while I trudge off to work?  And they have the balls to say I don't care, and want everything I worked so hard for?

call it materialism - I call it property rights.  It's my right to share, not your's to just take it.

2.  Start a business, struggle under all the laws and regulations holding you back.  Pay huge amounts of insurance for the chance some knucklehead is going to do something STUPID and sue.

call it greed - I call it self-preservation.  My gun protects me from thugs, but nothing can protect you from a pack or lawyers and stupid jury.

3.  Start a family, and suddenly realize the schools WANT your children as little Liberal soldiers for themselves!  Indoctrinated to think and act like obedient little serfs, with no chance of ever exercising their rights as Americans.

call it racist, anti-one-worldly - I call it my family, and in this world, I'm raising them to be ADULTS, who have an entrepreneurial spirit, equipped & educated to work for themselves or for someone else, and not be dependent on anyone.

4.  Proof of concept, years of Liberalism... does not work, it enslaves you to work harder for less and feel guilty because you somehow have it "better" - but, in fact, you don't.

call it history - I call it learning the hard way.  That Social Security you've faithfully paid into, the 401K you've trusted in for retirement, Pension - history ought to tell you by now, the government is COMING FOR IT - they have a "history" of raiding your wealth, directly or indirectly through TAXES and INFLATION.  Argentina, yeah, remember Hillary Clinton praising Christina?  I do!

So why be a TEA, Constitutional Conservative?           
besides the women being incredible lovers?  and self-confident, good looking, true feminism?

Where do we get our freedom and liberty from?  Government or is it spelled out in the Constitution as a God given right?
Liberals, by their very nature, wish to grant you rights, and mold you into a useful citizen, citizen for the world or a foot soldier for their causes.  Look at the laws they push, the so called rights they use to supplant your constitutional rights.  Liberalism survives and thrives on USING people as RESOURCES - an attempt to strip away their individualism and God given rights.

Example:  In our county, by state law we can home school our kids.  The only state requirement, we submit an annual "notice of intent" and proficiency tests.  What does the local school board do...?  Every year, they reply with a "letter of approval" - and add a bunch of stuff we are not required by the state to do, but they want us to to.  That's an example of creeping liberalism, slowly imposing their will, and ignoring your rights... conform, conform, conform.

Realize your constitutional rights are natural, common sense, God given rights - read the document, it's like someone left the pasture gate open, and instead of eating Dandylions, you see Alfalfa for the first time.

Have you taken a few moments and just READ the Bill of Rights? 
It'll almost make you cry, we've gone so far from it, and the meaning is so simple and clear.

Do liberals really feel guilty or do they just like to "show" others they feel guilty?

Quote from: Solar on April 12, 2016, 07:05:07 PM
So when was the magic moment you realized the Dim party was the enemy?

The second term of Reagan.  Call it Conservative proof of concept or undeniable facts based on wealth accumulation.

First business venture was a photographic darkroom, doing color enlargements.   We were clearing $600 a day, in the early '80s, and I was working a $6 per hr job.  Several things had to come together for success, none of which Jimmy Carter would allow. 

I remember hearing Carter was ordering the capping of oil wells in Alaska during that so-called energy crisis and making up peak-oil excuses, blaming Americans for consuming so much oil.  There was a delayed effect, from Carter - into the first term under Reagan, .... just being LIVID waiting in gas lines, based on the calendar.  The any-means is justified by the end result - makes one pause and think, "Well, what the HELL are they trying to do?"  But, Success has a way of letting the cat-out-of-the-bag... For a couple of newlyweds, trying to make a buck, Jimmy Carter was just pumping the brakes.

We proved Reagan was right, get the government out-of-the-way and the entrepreneurs will drive the economy to success.   So we leveraged our talent in a nitche market for a successful business, at 1/20th the cost of the closest competitor.  I'll add, we also had the best mentor, a guy who taught us everything we needed, and the right timing... Ronald Reagan.  Reagan brought us on-board with Conservatism.

Nobody just abandons Liberalism one day to become a Conservative the next, but, I suspect Reagan converted millions of us in those 8 wonderful years.  Those who felt left-behind, failed to see opportunity, it took us a couple of years to start taking risks again.

When Bill Clinton coined the line, "I feel your pain" - I knew he was the enemy. Nobody talks like that, unless they WANT something YOU have - to give to someone else.  Had Clinton said, "How can I help you succeed?", we might have been a bit receptive.  But, we realized quickly, we had NOTHING in common with Clinton or the democratic "principles" he espoused.  Bill Clinton severed any remaining ties we had with Liberalism... and burnt the bridge, it was personal for a bit, but Gingrich sealed the deal with his "Contract with America".

We knew we were 100% right about Clinton when ... how'd you guess, Hillary Clinton tried to take over the healthcare system.

Clinton was a sly ... sort of scooping up the old Carter "command and control" of the economy.  He did what he could, sneaky like... Carter just forced it on us over that summer gas prices doubled.

Quote from: Fishman on April 12, 2016, 08:05:14 PM
Do liberals really feel guilty or do they just like to "show" others they feel guilty?

They actually do feel guilty.  But, it's not the kind of "guilt" that provokes personal action, no it's more like spreading misery around... makes them feel better if everyone is suffering - sort of a "bonding" thing.  Actually, it's quite irrational, IMO.

Quote from: Hoofer on April 12, 2016, 08:25:07 PM
The second term of Reagan.  Call it Conservative proof of concept or undeniable facts based on wealth accumulation.

First business venture was a photographic darkroom, doing color enlargements.   We were clearing $600 a day, in the early '80s, and I was working a $6 per hr job.  Several things had to come together for success, none of which Jimmy Carter would allow. 

I remember hearing Carter was ordering the capping of oil wells in Alaska during that so-called energy crisis and making up peak-oil excuses, blaming Americans for consuming so much oil.  There was a delayed effect, from Carter - into the first term under Reagan, .... just being LIVID waiting in gas lines, based on the calendar.  The any-means is justified by the end result - makes one pause and think, "Well, what the HELL are they trying to do?"  But, Success has a way of letting the cat-out-of-the-bag... For a couple of newlyweds, trying to make a buck, Jimmy Carter was just pumping the brakes.

We proved Reagan was right, get the government out-of-the-way and the entrepreneurs will drive the economy to success.   So we leveraged our talent in a nitche market for a successful business, at 1/20th the cost of the closest competitor.  I'll add, we also had the best mentor, a guy who taught us everything we needed, and the right timing... Ronald Reagan.  Reagan brought us on-board with Conservatism.

Nobody just abandons Liberalism one day to become a Conservative the next, but, I suspect Reagan converted millions of us in those 8 wonderful years.  Those who felt left-behind, failed to see opportunity, it took us a couple of years to start taking risks again.

When Bill Clinton coined the line, "I feel your pain" - I knew he was the enemy. Nobody talks like that, unless they WANT something YOU have - to give to someone else.  Had Clinton said, "How can I help you succeed?", we might have been a bit receptive.  But, we realized quickly, we had NOTHING in common with Clinton or the democratic "principles" he espoused.  Bill Clinton severed any remaining ties we had with Liberalism... and burnt the bridge, it was personal for a bit, but Gingrich sealed the deal with his "Contract with America".

We knew we were 100% right about Clinton when ... how'd you guess, Hillary Clinton tried to take over the healthcare system.

Clinton was a sly ... sort of scooping up the old Carter "command and control" of the economy.  He did what he could, sneaky like... Carter just forced it on us over that summer gas prices doubled.

Yeah, I could see that being a pivotal point. I was stationed overseas so I never experienced the stupidity on the economy firsthand.
No, I felt it in the collapsed morale of the Military and how he was attempting to gut it through attrition via working/living conditions.

Quote from: Solar on April 13, 2016, 04:25:49 AM
Yeah, I could see that being a pivotal point. I was stationed overseas so I never experienced the stupidity on the economy firsthand.
No, I felt it in the collapsed morale of the Military and how he was attempting to gut it through attrition via working/living conditions.

Same thing for me returning from service just before Carter's takeover, and that blathering moron gave away the Panama Canal. That one weakened everybody's conditions in terms of our national defense. Jiminy Peanut thought it was just swell, kinda like Obama thinks giving back Gitmo will endear us (or is it just him?) to Fidel and Raoul.

Quote from: quiller on April 13, 2016, 05:39:06 AM
Same thing for me returning from service just before Carter's takeover, and that blathering moron gave away the Panama Canal. That one weakened everybody's conditions in terms of our national defense. Jiminy Peanut thought it was just swell, kinda like Obama thinks giving back Gitmo will endear us (or is it just him?) to Fidel and Raoul.

Yeah, I was in under Nixon, and morale already sucked thanx to the Marxist hippies of the 60s blaming the lowly soldier for genocide Polio and Mars invaders and God knows what else their warped minds could come up with, but once Carter got a hold on the military, we hit new lows in morale and fast.

Quote from: Solar on April 13, 2016, 05:58:53 AM
Yeah, I was in under Nixon, and morale already sucked thanx to the Marxist hippies of the 60s blaming the lowly soldier for genocide Polio and Mars invaders and God knows what else their warped minds could come up with, but once Carter got a hold on the military, we hit new lows in morale and fast.

I think it only fair to Korean and War 2 vets that I point out, troop draw-downs will ALWAYS occur during peacetime. I believe it fair to enlisted people to also point out, with that draw-down also comes the mentality that certain wartime laxity will no longer be allowed.

The brass has nothing better to do than harass the troops. I saw it aboard an aircraft carrier and also ashore at two locations (one an Army post, one Navy). Those who don't like it can always get out. Those who need regimentation tend to stay. Those like myself just served and passed through. I am forever glad that I did.

I, on the other hand grew up conservative....except we were all staunch DEMOCRATS Irish, Blue Collar, Daddy was a union man to the core, Mom had her own business, she had worked for a Democratic alderman that's how she Met Dad. A veteran who had stormed Normandy beach, was a prize fighter who almost entered the Seminary. Both revered the Flag, respected veterans and the Military (Our boys), Loved America as the greatest country on earth and any SOB who spoke up against it might get a fist in the eye.

They hated abortion, loved guns (Mom could shoot the eye out of squirrel with a 22 and cook it up fine), DISPISED a man who did not work, (Freeloaders) They were so proud of my older Brother when he entered the Air Force as some kind of tech head. They were more wary of my being drafted and I think that is what turned my Father against the Democrats. That and the fact that Southern Democrats were beating up on black people marching peacefully and parading around with hoods over their faces like a bunch of 'ignorant Johnny Rebs', we should kick their asses again According to Dad, my Uncles and just about everybody else in our Western Pa Steel town.

My father began calling Johnson Lame Brain Johnson (LBJ) and went so far as to vote for Nixon the next election.
I didn't realize I was a conservative until Years later when Jimmy Peanuts Carter burst upon the scene, I voted for Uncle Jerry Ford, Jimmy got elected and we saw the country deteriorate under his stupidity.

It dawned on me just how destructive democrats were, Never again will I vote for a Democrat....never.

Now there are No Democrats left....the Marxists have Hi jacked the party and turned it into the national socialists party.

Quote from: LilLamb on April 12, 2016, 07:28:39 PM
My parents were Democrats in their youth. They were big supporters of JFK. I was 6 years old when JFK was assassinated and I remember my mom crying her eyes out for days and watching the funeral on our black and white TV.

I think as they raised their family they had the same aha moments that Hoofer experienced and they left the party and became Republicans. Lucky for me they felt politics were family discussion material. Before every election, even before we were old enough to vote, we had to decide on our candidate and give reasoned arguments for why we would vote for them based on the issues. My dad said he didn't care who we were voting for as long as we could explain why based on the issues. It made us look beyond appearances and hype. I'm very thankful that my parents showed us the importance of choosing a candidate based on reason and not just emotion.  I miss them dearly.

Wow! Great parents. All parents should do that. Especially now days. Perhaps if they did, we wouldn't have, well what is going on at colleges all over the nation.

Why do I say that?

Because my family is the exact opposite. To them, politic's and political policy is something you don't talk about at the family get together.

Primarily because it's assumed that if ya do. Someone's going to become offended so it's better to simply not bring it up.

I disagreed/disagree with that sort of thinking.

I believe the end result is political ignorance, and low info voters.

Both of these, are two of the absolute last things our Republic needs right now.




Being the black sheep I of course always found that to be backwards.

Going to generalize ... just a little.

Liberals perpetually suffer from a sort of low-grade-misery.  It's always there, sometimes just under the surface, but to be sure, everyday occurrences can quickly bring it out - and change the mood of the party, or conversation to anger, depression or just plain misery.  Misery LOVES company.  What?  You say "you feel MY pain?"  I don't have any - stay away from me, I don't want yours either!

"How can you joke around like that, when .... " - fill-in-the-blank, "people are suffering", "you just hurt their feelings", "they just got ripped off".  Oh so somber, so serious, and so fake!  Celebrations are always short. 

I'll call this life-long-liberal friend, "Hey, M., how you doing!?"
"Not so good, man... "  serious!  I quit asking, it'd start him off on the whole misery tour of his life.  "That's easy for you to say!  If you were in my shoes...  I'm just a piss-ant to these rich bastards!"

Nevermind the guy walked out on his wife and 2 kids - so she hired a good lawyer and took everything he had, and continues to.  He's a walking Humphrey Bogart, perpetually down, can't get a break, failures are someone else's fault... unless he's drunk - nothing will cheer him up.

..and they get pissed at you when you refuse to coddle them or fail to show enough empathy - now it's YOUR fault!

I got TIRED of hearing it, being the perpetual shoulder for nonsense. Just as happiness drove me crazy, I both wanted it, and loathed it (keep in good with the other liberals, sometimes you pretend).

Liberals are quick to mistakenly take up "lost causes" and attempt to "level the playing field".   Better to LOSE in a "fair fight" or call a "truce" than to obliterate the enemy.  Hiroshima.  Vietnam.  Korea.  Apologize for WHAT???
If a liberal lawyer had the chance to represent the Devil and plead his case before God - they would.

Emotional decisions are the toughest on liberals to abandon.  I felt "hurt" because my dad and brothers hunted deer.  Well into my teens, it was cruel and I flat out refused to enjoy the finest cuts of venison - I'd rather starve to death.  ...  a few years later, we share-cropped 40 acres of corn, way back in a corner of the farm.  It was looking pretty good in October, ready for picking - and we needed it desperately for the livestock - the neighbor said to give it a couple more weeks to dry out a little more. ... While we waited, a "herd of white-tailed RATS" ate, stomped and destroyed the entire field. 

Somewhere between tears & anger - I vowed to kill every deer I could, and eat them out of spite.  Reality is a tough taskmaster.

Liberals like the utopian world view, and will quickly sacrifice life and limb to achieve it, foolish as it sounds.   Laying down in front of bulldozers in Israel, hanging out in the treetops to prevent logging, and trying to "love-tame" wild animals - they just need to be understood.  There is nothing quite like feral cat biting your hand and shredding your arm... glad it wasn't rabid.  Rather than leave well enough alone, when their "love" is rejected, this-means-war, no matter how irrational the original intent was.  Hollywood has done a wonderful job, mis-educating liberals.

Someone surely said, "boy, was that STUPID or what!?" - er.. yeah, how do you argue with common sense?  Try to impress them with some utopian ideology, shame them into silence, or slink away, muttering how uncivilized they are.  We actually have a grown man running for public office who is too stupid to read the rules - so he gets clobbered and claims it's rigged, not fair, he was cheated.  That's an example of the liberal mindset in action - it's not MY fault.

Actually the correct response was, "Boy, are you STUPID or what!?"  Or, "are you getting senile?"

Liberals believe they are above reproach, because their intentions were good - not really, their logic is flawed.  If you want everyone to have healthcare, get out of the way, and let the doctors, nurses and hospitals render healthcare on their own.  There's nothing noble about forcing others to perform services, that's slavery!  Today, I would have laughed out loud if I saw a seal rescued from an oily slick, cleaned up, ceremoniously released - to be eaten by a Killer Whale.  But, I wonder if after the crying subsided, they might have plotted to "escort" the seal to safety, somehow - swim out there and "shame" the killer whales.

Maybe the difference between me and other liberals, I quit rationalizing away the obvious and started applying common sense, saving the emotions for the correct situations, the right context.  Finding my way into the Conservative camp, emotionally & morally took longer than fiscally, some people never seem to get there 100%.   IMO, Television promotes liberalism through political correctness, better than any other media.  We got rid of ours in 1988, and started reading instead.  Unwinding years of liberalism isn't an quick process, Donald Trump is a good example, defaulting to liberal tactics our of habit... or worse, he still believes that way.   At least the more he defaults to liberal-mode publicly, the harder and longer it'll be to become a real Conservatism.   

It's hard to say, "I was wrong" after you've given so much energy, trying to convince everyone your illogical argument was somehow correct.    
another reason why I believe Trump is a lost cause.

Having grown up in the South in the fifties my family was southern democrats. Then, the party was more conservative and mostly addicted to FDR. After graduating from college in the mid sixties I saw the light and converted to the republican party. My father converted also and voted for Nixon. Like many in the South, the democrat party left them now 50 years later the entire southern part of our country leans republican. The people have not changed, the parties have.

Quote from: supsalemgr on April 14, 2016, 04:27:53 AM
Having grown up in the South in the fifties my family was southern democrats. Then, the party was more conservative and mostly addicted to FDR. After graduating from college in the mid sixties I saw the light and converted to the republican party. My father converted also and voted for Nixon. Like many in the South, the democrat party left them now 50 years later the entire southern part of our country leans republican. The people have not changed, the parties have.

I agree in part, but as a whole, both parties have been moving slowly leftward, sometimes faster than public opinion.
Gov McCory has his hands full with the LBGXYZ bathroom thing.  I suspect the timing was to cause maximum damage, and if they got what they REALLY wanted - what a bonus!  If not, McCory is still takes a hit from the Libs.

Those kinds of coordinated attacks have been very successful for promoting the Liberal / Progressive / Socialist agenda - with the help of the main stream media.

Maybe it's just me - Cruz has the opportunity to dramatically & suddenly turn the direction of this country around - because he knows how to make the case to the public.

By comparison, should Trump win, IMO, he doesn't have the intellectual horse power or depth as a conservative to put forth a compelling case for anything conservative.   Those that would vote Trump in, will probably be sorely disappointed with his inability to do anything.

I can't remember have this level of quiet confidence about a candidate, since the 2nd term of Reagan.