Quote from: kroz on June 13, 2015, 11:34:34 AM
"We the People" cannot read this one!  That is my point.

It is sinister and in total opposition to the way our government was designed to work.  The people should be able to participate at every level.

But TEA Reps are able too, and have yet to disclose any serious problems.
Sessions, a RINO appears to have started the conspiracies, yet Ted claims they're unfounded.

Quote from: Solar on June 13, 2015, 11:30:23 AM
Then why even speak on something he hasn't read? That's not what a President would do.
No, this doesn't bode well for him.

I agree. He should have kept mum.

However, I also believe this is kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't issue.

IF he gets elected president...

and

IF the prospect of fast track authority being given to him as president comes up, then he wouldn't be well served to have been actively opposing it for Obama - especially when the bill is largely supported by Republicans. The MSM would have a field day with it and that could cause him to lose getting Fast Track when he needs it to do something good for the country.

This way he is on the record as being pro-Free Trade.

Quote from: Darth Fife on June 13, 2015, 12:10:25 PM
I agree. He should have kept mum.

However, I also believe this is kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't issue.

IF he gets elected president...

and

IF the prospect of fast track authority being given to him as president comes up, then he wouldn't be well served to have been actively opposing it for Obama - especially when the bill is largely supported by Republicans. The MSM would have a field day with it and that could cause him to lose getting Fast Track when he needs it to do something good for the country.

This way he is on the record as being pro-Free Trade.

BINGO!!

Personally I am against giving Obama any more power then he has already stolen for himself! I don't trust this president so I am against fast track authority! Better to push these negotiations off for awhile. Is there really any reason it can't be done in the next administration?

Where dos all this rhetoric come from about "secrecy" and not knowing what is in the bill(s) and or amendments being discussed?

It is all right here:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/1314

You want to know what is in the bill, go read it yourselves. If you want to know what is in each amendment, go read it. If the MSM is too fracking lazy (or deceitful) to find this information and disseminate it, maybe that is a read on what the MSM is pushing us to believe, and not what is actually happening. The MSM wants us to fear free trade, so they claim it's all hush-hush and we have no idea what the bill says.

Well, yes we do, if we take the time and effort to do a few mouse clicks, and then spend several hours reading time.

Conservative politicians we normally trust are in favor. So either we stop trusting otherwise good conservatives due to one issue which we are (voluntarily? Ignorantly?) in the dark on, OR the other hubris surrounding the issue, to include items like unprecedented executive authority (false) and the whole "it's being kept secret from us" claims (false), is, shall we say, not entirely accurate?

Quote from: zewazir on June 14, 2015, 07:37:24 AM
Where dos all this rhetoric come from about "secrecy" and not knowing what is in the bill(s) and or amendments being discussed?

It is all right here:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/1314

You want to know what is in the bill, go read it yourselves. If you want to know what is in each amendment, go read it. If the MSM is too fracking lazy (or deceitful) to find this information and disseminate it, maybe that is a read on what the MSM is pushing us to believe, and not what is actually happening. The MSM wants us to fear free trade, so they claim it's all hush-hush and we have no idea what the bill says.

Well, yes we do, if we take the time and effort to do a few mouse clicks, and then spend several hours reading time.

Conservative politicians we normally trust are in favor. So either we stop trusting otherwise good conservatives due to one issue which we are (voluntarily? Ignorantly?) in the dark on, OR the other hubris surrounding the issue, to include items like unprecedented executive authority (false) and the whole "it's being kept secret from us" claims (false), is, shall we say, not entirely accurate?

Did you read it?

Quote from: Solar on June 14, 2015, 07:39:21 AM
Did you read it?

I have read parts of it, to include the summaries and large portions of some of the more controversial amendments.  No, I have not read all of it, not by a long shot.  Take a look and you'll see why.

But my point is, the information IS available to the People. Claims otherwise are simply not true, and IMO, such claims are being used to turn conservatives against it who would otherwise support it.

Quote from: zewazir on June 14, 2015, 07:37:24 AM
Where dos all this rhetoric come from about "secrecy" and not knowing what is in the bill(s) and or amendments being discussed?

It is all right here:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/1314

You want to know what is in the bill, go read it yourselves. If you want to know what is in each amendment, go read it. If the MSM is too fracking lazy (or deceitful) to find this information and disseminate it, maybe that is a read on what the MSM is pushing us to believe, and not what is actually happening. The MSM wants us to fear free trade, so they claim it's all hush-hush and we have no idea what the bill says.

Well, yes we do, if we take the time and effort to do a few mouse clicks, and then spend several hours reading time.

Conservative politicians we normally trust are in favor. So either we stop trusting otherwise good conservatives due to one issue which we are (voluntarily? Ignorantly?) in the dark on, OR the other hubris surrounding the issue, to include items like unprecedented executive authority (false) and the whole "it's being kept secret from us" claims (false), is, shall we say, not entirely accurate?

This is a common ms-conception. It is not the "bill" per-se, but how the Obama Administration intends to negotiate the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement - that is the information which is being kept tightly under wraps.

The Fast Track authority is a relatively simple bill, as I understand it, it is just what Obama will do with it that is the problem.

Those details are what is causing the big stink in D.C.

Quote from: Darth Fife on June 14, 2015, 09:57:14 AM
This is a common ms-conception. It is not the "bill" per-se, but how the Obama Administration intends to negotiate the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement - that is the information which is being kept tightly under wraps.

The Fast Track authority is a relatively simple bill, as I understand it, it is just what Obama will do with it that is the problem.

Those details are what is causing the big stink in D.C.

And well it should. We know this crowd in the WH after 6 plus years. The fact they are keeping it secret immediately tells us there are some sinister things in for the American people.

Quote from: zewazir on June 14, 2015, 07:48:32 AM
I have read parts of it, to include the summaries and large portions of some of the more controversial amendments.  No, I have not read all of it, not by a long shot.  Take a look and you'll see why.

But my point is, the information IS available to the People. Claims otherwise are simply not true, and IMO, such claims are being used to turn conservatives against it who would otherwise support it.

Yeah, that's why I asked if you read it, because the language is always lawyers speak and tends to be convoluted to the point, you need an attorney to translate it.

And you are exactly correct, it was by design a tool to divide the right, I posted that exact claim nearly a month ago.
Thanks for posting the link, I'll post the entire Bill in a stand alone thread.