Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 12:44:56 PM
Well the uranium was used to destroy Sadaams forces.

The Uranium also harmed US soldiers of course since they were in the same area.  Its now having the effect of dementing unborn babies, who of course aren't radicals. 

It seems to me that following that logic any army could justify the use of chemical weapons.  For example, when Sadaam was using chemical weapons against the Kurds, he was clearly using them to defeat forces while minimizing his own casualties.  Putting aside that he was a US ally at the time and that we gave him those weapons, was he justified in using them?

Im not trying to be argumentative just trying to follow the logic.

I guess what I am asking is then do all countries have the right to use uranium tipped shells?

Liberals hear something(s) that makes them 'feel' it must be true.  Seldom to they either back up their 'reasoning' with facts.  For  instance, "depleted uranium" is used in some shells for it's hardness and ability to penetrate armor.  It's even used in the .50 cal Barrett Sniper Rifle, because it doesn't deform when it penetrates things like block walls, behind which enemy snipers love to lurk.  I'm sure you are aware that what is "depleted" in the depleted uranium shell, is the radioactivity.  The enemy likely speads a whole lot of propaganda about "uranium bullets" because they have feweer places to hide and sure would like to have them eliminated from our arsenal.  Perhaps propaganda such as that you are offering will cause us to give up some of our advantages on the battlefield and provide the enemy with both aid and comfort!


(snip)

" Health problems associated with depleted uranium DU is a potential health hazard if it enters the body, such as through embedded fragments, contaminated wounds, and inhalation or ingestion. Simply riding in a vehicle with DU weapons or DU shielding will not expose a Servicemember to significant amounts of DU or external radiation. The potential for health effects from internal exposure is related to the amount of DU that enters a person's body. If DU enters the body, it may remain in the body. Studies show high doses may especially affect the kidneys. So far no health problems associated with DU exposure have been found in Veterans exposed to DU. Researchers and clinicians continue to monitor the health of these Veterans. Go to the Department of Defense's Depleted Uranium (DU) Library to learn about results of medical and scientific research and other DU topics. - See more at: http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/depleted_uranium/#sthash.Eed3uNPg.dpuf
http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/depleted_uranium/

Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 12:11:37 PM
I don't really understand the point you guys are trying to make here.

Ill be honest I am trying to learn about the tea party and that's why I am here.  I wont to learn as much as I can before I side with any type.

It seems to be while some of the issues there are partisan some are pretty basic human rights issues.

But aside from that, I have seen criticisms from the UN on far more expansive topics.  One for example, is the use of uranium tipped tank shells in Iraq by US forces.  These shells have caused birth defects in Iraq higher then that of Hiroshima.  They have also hurt US forces as well. 

I also don't understand the point about listing who sits on the council.  Of course some of those regimes aren't great, like Saudi Arabia.  But does that mean they also cant be correct in pointing out human rights abuses?

I guess what I am asking, is what human rights abuses, if any, do you think America commits?

If you are referring to obama's list in the first post, first ask why obama did not give examples. His list is mostly a strawman list.

"""Police brutality, including the Michael Brown case in Ferguson, Missouri
Discrimination against Muslims who want to build or expand mosques
Voter identification laws in Texas and elsewhere
Predatory lending in home mortgages
Suspension of black children in schools
Women earning "78 cents on the dollar" (a false statistic)"""

What on this list is an example of anything?? In texas we ask to see id to vote, how does that prove anything??  "black kids suspension", well white kids get suspended too.
In other words, what are you referring to?
If you are asking for what we as conservatives see as a human rights abuse, start with LBJ and his great society.

Quote from: wally on May 13, 2015, 01:04:51 PM
Liberals hear something(s) that makes them 'feel' it must be true.  Seldom to they either back up their 'reasoning' with facts.  For  instance, "depleted uranium" is used in some shells for it's hardness and ability to penetrate armor.  It's even used in the .50 cal Barrett Sniper Rifle, because it doesn't deform when it penetrates things like block walls, behind which enemy snipers love to lurk.  I'm sure you are aware that what is "depleted" in the depleted uranium shell, is the radioactivity.  The enemy likely speads a whole lot of propaganda about "uranium bullets" because they have feweer places to hide and sure would like to have them eliminated from our arsenal.  Perhaps propaganda such as that you are offering will cause us to give up some of our advantages on the battlefield and provide the enemy with both aid and comfort!

What you cited is old news.  Independent reviews by the Japanese and other organizations have shown that Uranium as lead to birth defects higher then Hiroshima and the US air force is now belatedly categorizing and monitoring troops from the last Iraq war.

A peer-reviewed report set to be released by the WHO, that provided stastical evidence for death rates for US troops and Iraqis was blocked by the US and prevented from release.

--fixed quoting by taxed

SOrry I messed up your post:

I meant to say:

What you cited is old news.  Independent reviews by the Japanese and other organizations have shown that Uranium as lead to birth defects higher then Hiroshima and the US air force is now belatedly categorizing and monitoring troops from the last Iraq war.

A peer-reviewed report set to be released by the WHO, that provided stastical evidence for death rates for US troops and Iraqis was blocked by the US and prevented from release.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 01:10:30 PM
What you cited is old news.  IdentHiroshi  then ma and the US air force is now belatedly categorizing and monitoring troops from the last Iraq war.ndepen reviews by the Japanese and other organizations have shown that Uranium as lead to birth defects higher

A peer-reviewed report set to be released by the WHO, that provided stastical evidence for death rates for US troops and Iraqis was blocked by the US and prevented from release.

--fixed quoting by taxed

You apparently don't understand how things work on a conservative site....If you state something is a fact, then please provide a link.  I did provide a link to a very credible source. Where's yours?  Comments like " Independent reviews by the Japanese and other organizations have shown that Uranium as lead to birth defects higher then Hiroshima and the US air force is now belatedly categorizing and monitoring troops from the last Iraq war.

A peer-reviewed report set to be released by the WHO, that provided stastical evidence for death rates for US troops and Iraqis was blocked by the US and prevented from release" sound like they are right out of the old Pravda playbook!

My apologies:


Alberts, B. et al., (2008) Molecular Biology of the Cell 5th Edition, New York, Garland Science .
Arfsten, D.P., (2001) 'A review of the effects of uranium and depleted uranium exposure on reproduction and fetal development'. Toxicology and Industrial Health 17(5-10), June pp. 180-91.
Bakhmutsky, M.V., (2010) 'Long term depleted uranium exposure in Gulf War I veterans does not cause elevated numbers of micronuclei in peripheral blood lymphocytes'. Mutation Research 720(1-2) February pp53-7. Epub 2010 Dec 15.
Barillet, S. et al., (2007) 'Bioaccumulation, oxidative stress, and neurotoxicity in Danio rerio exposed to different isotopic compositions of uranium'. Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry 26(1): March pp.497-505.
Barillet, S. et al., (2010) 'Ultrastructural effects on gill, muscle, and gonadal tissues induced in zebrafish (Danio rerio) by a waterborne uranium exposure'. Aquatic Toxicology 100(3) November pp. 295-302.
Barillet, S. et al., (2011) 'Uranium bioaccumulation and biological disorders induced in zebrafish (Danio rerio) after a depleted uranium waterborne exposure'. Environmental Pollution 159(2), November pp. 495-502.
Coryell, V.H. and Stearns, D.M., (2006) 'Molecular analysis of hprt mutations generated in Chinese hamster ovary EM 9 cells by uranyl acetate, by hydrogen peroxide and spontaneously'. Molecular Carcinogenesis, 45(1) January pp. 60-72.
Darolles, C. et al., (2010) 'Different genotoxic profiles between depleted uranium and enriched uranium'. Toxicology Letters 192, November, pp.337-348.
Giovanetti, A. et al., (2010) 'Bioaccumulation and biological effects in the earthworm Eisenia fetida exposed to natural and depleted uranium'. Journal of Environmental Radioactivity 101, April, pp.509-516.
Hahn, F.F. et al., (2002) 'Implanted depleted uranium fragments cause soft tissue sarcomas in the muscles of rats'. Environmental Health Perspectives 110(1), January, pp.51-59.
Heintze, E., (2011) 'Toxicity of depleted uranium complexes is independent of p53 activity'. Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry 105(2) February pp.142-148.
Hu, QY, Zhu SP., (1990) 'Induction of chromosomal aberrations in male mouse germ cells by uranyl fluoride containing enriched uranium'. Mutation Research 244 (3) July pp. 209-214.
IARC, (2006) Monographs on the Evaluation of Carcinogenic Risks to Humans, Scientific Review and Evaluation, [online] available at: http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Preamble/currentb6evalrationale0706.php
IARC, (2012) Monographs on the Evaluation of Carcinogenic Risks to Humans, Radiation Volume 100D: A Review of Human Carcinogens, WHO Press, Geneva, [online] available at http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol100D/mono100D-1.pdf accessed 24 July 2014
Ibrulj, S., (2007) 'Chromosome aberrations as bioindicators of environmental genotoxicity'. Bosnian Journal of Basic Medical Science 7 (4), November pp.311-316.
Krunić, A., (2005) 'Micronuclei frequencies in peripheral blood lymphocytes of individuals exposed to depleted uranium'. Archives of Industrial Hygiene and Toxicology 56(3), September pp.227-32.
LaCerte, C. et al., (2010) 'Particulate depleted uranium is cytotoxic and clastogenic to human lung epithelial cells'. Mutation Research 697, February pp. 31-37.
Lerebours, A. et al., (2009) 'Comparative analysis of gene expression in brain, liver, skeletal muscles, and gills of zebrafish (Danio rerio) exposed to environmentally relevant waterborne uranium concentrations'. Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry 28(6), June pp.1271-1278.
Lestaevel, P. et al., (2009) 'Different pattern of brain pro-/anti-oxidant activity between depleted and enriched uranium in chronically exposed rats'. Toxicology 258: April, pp. 1-9.ICBUW: Malignant Effects 29

Lin, R.H. et al., (1993) 'Cytogenetic toxicity of uranyl nitrate in Chinese hamster ovary cells'. Mutation Research 319: November pp. 197-203.
Linares, V. et al., (2006) 'Assessment of the pro-oxidant activity of uranium in kidney and testis of rats'. Toxicology Letters 167: September pp.152-161.
Linares, V. et al., (2007) 'Pro-oxidant effects in the brain of rats concurrently exposed to uranium and stress'. Toxicology 236: July pp.82-92.
Lourenco, J. et al., (2010) 'Genetic, biochemical, and individual responses of the teleost fish Carassius auratus to uranium'. Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology 58 (4) May pp.1023-1031.
Marnett, L.J., (1999) 'Lipid peroxidation – DNA damage by malondialdehyde'. Mutation Research 424, pp.83-95.
Marnett L.J., (2002). 'Oxy radicals, lipid peroxidation and DNA damage'. Toxicology 181-182, pp. 219-222.
McDiarmid, M.A. et al., (2011) 'Measures of genotoxicity in Gulf war I veterans exposed to depleted uranium'. Environmental and Molecular Mutagenesis, 52(7) August pp. 569-81. doi: 10.1002/em.20658. Epub 2011 Jul 4.
Milačić, S., (2004) 'Examination of the health status of populations from depleted uranium contaminated regions'. Environmental Research 75, May pp.2-10.
Milačić, S., (2009) 'Identification of health risks in workers staying and working on the terrains contaminated with depleted uranium'. Journal of Radiation Research 50: May, pp.213-222.
Miller, A. C. et al., (1998) 'Transformation of human osteoblast cells to the tumorigenic phenotype by depleted uranium-uranyl chloride'. Environmental Health Perspectives 106(8), August, pp.465-471.
Miller, A.C. et al., (1998) 'Urinary and serum mutagenicity studies with rats implanted with depleted uranium or tantalum pellets'. Mutagenesis vol.13, No. 6, November pp. 643-648.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2002) 'DU-catalyzed oxidative DNA damage: absence of significant alpha particle decay'. Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry, 91(1): July pp.246-252.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2002) 'Observation of radiation-specific damage in human cells exposed to depleted uranium: dicentric frequency and neoplastic transformation as endpoints'. Radiation Protection Dosimetry, 99(1-4), pp.275-278.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2002), 'Potential late health effects of depleted uranium and tungsten used in armor-piercing munitions: comparison of neoplastic transformation and genotoxicity with the known carcinogen nickel.' Military Medicine 167, Supplement 1: February pp.120-122.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2003) 'Genomic instability in human osteoblast cells after exposure to depleted uranium: delayed lethality and micronuclei formation'. Journal of Environmental Radioactivity 64 (2-3), pp.347-59.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2005) 'Leukemic transformation of hematopoietic cells in mice internally exposed to depleted uranium'. Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry 279, November, pp.97-104.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2007), 'Observation of radiation-specific damage in cells exposed to depleted uranium: hprt gene mutation frequency'. Radiation Measurement, vol. 42, no. 6, pp. 1029-1032.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2009) 'DNA methylation during depleted uranium-induced leukemia'. Biochimie, 91(10), October, pp. 1328-30.
Miller, A.C., (2010) 'Preconceptional paternal exposure to depleted uranium: transmission of genetic damage to offspring'. Health Physics 99(3), September pp.371-379.
Monleau, M. et al., (2006) 'Distribution and genotoxic effects after successive exposure to different uranium oxide particles inhaled by rats'. Inhalation Toxicology 18, October, pp. 885-894.
Monleau, M. et al., (2006) 'Genotoxic and inflammatory effects of depleted uranium particles inhaled by rats'. Toxicological Sciences 89(1): pp.287-295.
Orona, N.S. and Tasat, D.R., (2012) 'Uranyl nitrate-exposed rat alveolar macrophages cell death: influence of superoxide anion and TNF alpha mediators'. Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology. 261(3), June, pp. 309-316.
Periyakaruppan, A. et al., (2007) 'Uranium induces oxidative stress in lung epithelial cells.' Archives of Toxicology 81(6): June pp.389-395.ICBUW: Malignant Effects 30

Pourahmad, J, et al., (2006) A search for cellular and molecular mechanisms involved in depleted uranium (DU) toxicity. Environmental Toxicology, 21: 349–354. doi: 10.1002/tox.20196,
Schroeder, H., (2003) 'Chromosome aberration analysis in peripheral lymphocytes of Gulf War and Balkans War veterans'. Radiation Protection Dosimetry 103(3), pp. 211-219.
Shen, Z., (2011) 'Genomic instability and cancer: an introduction'. Journal of Molecular Cell Biology 3(1), pp.1–3.
Song, Y. et al., (2012) 'Early stress responses in Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) exposed to environmentally relevant concentrations of uranium'. Aquatic Toxicology 112-113, February pp.62-71.
Stearns, D. M. et al., (2005) 'Uranyl acetate induces hprt mutations and uranium-DNA adducts in Chinese hamster ovary EM9 cells'. Mutagenesis 20(6), November pp.417-423.
The Royal Society, (2001) The health hazards of depleted uranium munitions: Part I; [online] available at https://royalsociety.org/policy/publications/2001/health-uranium-munitions-i/ accessed 28 July 2014
The Royal Society, (2002) The health hazards of depleted uranium munitions: Part II [online] available at https://royalsociety.org/policy/publications/2002/health-uranium-munitions-ii/accessed 28 July 2014
Thiebault, C. et al., (2007) 'Uranium induces apoptosis and Is genotoxic to normal rat kidney (NRK-58E) proximal cells', Toxicological Sciences 98(2), August, pp.479-487.
Todorov, T.I. et al., (2013) 'Uranium quantification in semen by inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry'. Journal of Trace Elements in Medicine and Biology 27(1), January pp.2-6.
UK Ministry of Defence, (2013) UK depleted uranium (DU) munitions policy and development [online] available at https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210641/Depleted_Uranium.pdf accessed 28 July 2014
UN Secretary General, "Effects of the use of armaments and ammunitions containing depleted uranium", Report of the UN Secretary-General, Addendum, p.3, 2010. [UN document, A/65/129/Add.1]
Weir, D., (2012) Precaution in Practice: challenging the acceptability of depleted uranium weapons, ICBUW [online] available at: http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/en/precaution-in-practice
WHO, (2001) Depleted uranium: sources, exposure and health effects Executive summary [online] available at http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiation/pub_meet/en/DU_Eng.pdf?ua=1 accessed 28 July 2014
Wise, S.S., (2007) 'Particulate depleted uranium is cytotoxic and clastogenic to human lung cells'. Chemical Research in Toxicology 20(5): May pp. 815-820.
Xie, H. et al., (2010) 'Depleted uranium induces neoplastic transformation in human lung epithelial cells'. Chemical Research in Toxicology 23, February, pp.373-378.
Yazzie, M. et al., (2003) 'Uranyl acetate causes DNA single strand breaks in vitro in the presence of ascorbate (Vitamin C)', Chemical Research in Toxicology 16, April, pp. 524-530.
Zaire, R., (1997) 'Unexpected rates of chromosomal instabilities and alterations of hormonal levels in Namibian uranium mines'. Radiation Research 147, May pp.579-584.
Zwijnenburg, W., (2014) Laid to Waste: depleted uranium contaminated military scrap in Iraq. PAX, [online] http://www.paxvoorvrede.nl/media/files/pax-rapport-iraq-final-lowres-spread.pdf accessed 28 July 2014.ICBUW: Malignant Effects 31

Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 01:26:47 PM
My apologies:


Alberts, B. et al., (2008) Molecular Biology of the Cell 5th Edition, New York, Garland Science .
Arfsten, D.P., (2001) 'A review of the effects of uranium and depleted uranium exposure on reproduction and fetal development'. Toxicology and Industrial Health 17(5-10), June pp. 180-91.
Bakhmutsky, M.V., (2010) 'Long term depleted uranium exposure in Gulf War I veterans does not cause elevated numbers of micronuclei in peripheral blood lymphocytes'. Mutation Research 720(1-2) February pp53-7. Epub 2010 Dec 15.
Barillet, S. et al., (2007) 'Bioaccumulation, oxidative stress, and neurotoxicity in Danio rerio exposed to different isotopic compositions of uranium'. Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry 26(1): March pp.497-505.
Barillet, S. et al., (2010) 'Ultrastructural effects on gill, muscle, and gonadal tissues induced in zebrafish (Danio rerio) by a waterborne uranium exposure'. Aquatic Toxicology 100(3) November pp. 295-302.
Barillet, S. et al., (2011) 'Uranium bioaccumulation and biological disorders induced in zebrafish (Danio rerio) after a depleted uranium waterborne exposure'. Environmental Pollution 159(2), November pp. 495-502.
Coryell, V.H. and Stearns, D.M., (2006) 'Molecular analysis of hprt mutations generated in Chinese hamster ovary EM 9 cells by uranyl acetate, by hydrogen peroxide and spontaneously'. Molecular Carcinogenesis, 45(1) January pp. 60-72.
Darolles, C. et al., (2010) 'Different genotoxic profiles between depleted uranium and enriched uranium'. Toxicology Letters 192, November, pp.337-348.
Giovanetti, A. et al., (2010) 'Bioaccumulation and biological effects in the earthworm Eisenia fetida exposed to natural and depleted uranium'. Journal of Environmental Radioactivity 101, April, pp.509-516.
Hahn, F.F. et al., (2002) 'Implanted depleted uranium fragments cause soft tissue sarcomas in the muscles of rats'. Environmental Health Perspectives 110(1), January, pp.51-59.
Heintze, E., (2011) 'Toxicity of depleted uranium complexes is independent of p53 activity'. Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry 105(2) February pp.142-148.
Hu, QY, Zhu SP., (1990) 'Induction of chromosomal aberrations in male mouse germ cells by uranyl fluoride containing enriched uranium'. Mutation Research 244 (3) July pp. 209-214.
IARC, (2006) Monographs on the Evaluation of Carcinogenic Risks to Humans, Scientific Review and Evaluation, [online] available at: http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Preamble/currentb6evalrationale0706.php
IARC, (2012) Monographs on the Evaluation of Carcinogenic Risks to Humans, Radiation Volume 100D: A Review of Human Carcinogens, WHO Press, Geneva, [online] available at http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol100D/mono100D-1.pdf accessed 24 July 2014
Ibrulj, S., (2007) 'Chromosome aberrations as bioindicators of environmental genotoxicity'. Bosnian Journal of Basic Medical Science 7 (4), November pp.311-316.
Krunić, A., (2005) 'Micronuclei frequencies in peripheral blood lymphocytes of individuals exposed to depleted uranium'. Archives of Industrial Hygiene and Toxicology 56(3), September pp.227-32.
LaCerte, C. et al., (2010) 'Particulate depleted uranium is cytotoxic and clastogenic to human lung epithelial cells'. Mutation Research 697, February pp. 31-37.
Lerebours, A. et al., (2009) 'Comparative analysis of gene expression in brain, liver, skeletal muscles, and gills of zebrafish (Danio rerio) exposed to environmentally relevant waterborne uranium concentrations'. Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry 28(6), June pp.1271-1278.
Lestaevel, P. et al., (2009) 'Different pattern of brain pro-/anti-oxidant activity between depleted and enriched uranium in chronically exposed rats'. Toxicology 258: April, pp. 1-9.ICBUW: Malignant Effects 29

Lin, R.H. et al., (1993) 'Cytogenetic toxicity of uranyl nitrate in Chinese hamster ovary cells'. Mutation Research 319: November pp. 197-203.
Linares, V. et al., (2006) 'Assessment of the pro-oxidant activity of uranium in kidney and testis of rats'. Toxicology Letters 167: September pp.152-161.
Linares, V. et al., (2007) 'Pro-oxidant effects in the brain of rats concurrently exposed to uranium and stress'. Toxicology 236: July pp.82-92.
Lourenco, J. et al., (2010) 'Genetic, biochemical, and individual responses of the teleost fish Carassius auratus to uranium'. Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology 58 (4) May pp.1023-1031.
Marnett, L.J., (1999) 'Lipid peroxidation – DNA damage by malondialdehyde'. Mutation Research 424, pp.83-95.
Marnett L.J., (2002). 'Oxy radicals, lipid peroxidation and DNA damage'. Toxicology 181-182, pp. 219-222.
McDiarmid, M.A. et al., (2011) 'Measures of genotoxicity in Gulf war I veterans exposed to depleted uranium'. Environmental and Molecular Mutagenesis, 52(7) August pp. 569-81. doi: 10.1002/em.20658. Epub 2011 Jul 4.
Milačić, S., (2004) 'Examination of the health status of populations from depleted uranium contaminated regions'. Environmental Research 75, May pp.2-10.
Milačić, S., (2009) 'Identification of health risks in workers staying and working on the terrains contaminated with depleted uranium'. Journal of Radiation Research 50: May, pp.213-222.
Miller, A. C. et al., (1998) 'Transformation of human osteoblast cells to the tumorigenic phenotype by depleted uranium-uranyl chloride'. Environmental Health Perspectives 106(8), August, pp.465-471.
Miller, A.C. et al., (1998) 'Urinary and serum mutagenicity studies with rats implanted with depleted uranium or tantalum pellets'. Mutagenesis vol.13, No. 6, November pp. 643-648.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2002) 'DU-catalyzed oxidative DNA damage: absence of significant alpha particle decay'. Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry, 91(1): July pp.246-252.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2002) 'Observation of radiation-specific damage in human cells exposed to depleted uranium: dicentric frequency and neoplastic transformation as endpoints'. Radiation Protection Dosimetry, 99(1-4), pp.275-278.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2002), 'Potential late health effects of depleted uranium and tungsten used in armor-piercing munitions: comparison of neoplastic transformation and genotoxicity with the known carcinogen nickel.' Military Medicine 167, Supplement 1: February pp.120-122.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2003) 'Genomic instability in human osteoblast cells after exposure to depleted uranium: delayed lethality and micronuclei formation'. Journal of Environmental Radioactivity 64 (2-3), pp.347-59.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2005) 'Leukemic transformation of hematopoietic cells in mice internally exposed to depleted uranium'. Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry 279, November, pp.97-104.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2007), 'Observation of radiation-specific damage in cells exposed to depleted uranium: hprt gene mutation frequency'. Radiation Measurement, vol. 42, no. 6, pp. 1029-1032.
Miller, A.C. et al., (2009) 'DNA methylation during depleted uranium-induced leukemia'. Biochimie, 91(10), October, pp. 1328-30.
Miller, A.C., (2010) 'Preconceptional paternal exposure to depleted uranium: transmission of genetic damage to offspring'. Health Physics 99(3), September pp.371-379.
Monleau, M. et al., (2006) 'Distribution and genotoxic effects after successive exposure to different uranium oxide particles inhaled by rats'. Inhalation Toxicology 18, October, pp. 885-894.
Monleau, M. et al., (2006) 'Genotoxic and inflammatory effects of depleted uranium particles inhaled by rats'. Toxicological Sciences 89(1): pp.287-295.
Orona, N.S. and Tasat, D.R., (2012) 'Uranyl nitrate-exposed rat alveolar macrophages cell death: influence of superoxide anion and TNF alpha mediators'. Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology. 261(3), June, pp. 309-316.
Periyakaruppan, A. et al., (2007) 'Uranium induces oxidative stress in lung epithelial cells.' Archives of Toxicology 81(6): June pp.389-395.ICBUW: Malignant Effects 30

Pourahmad, J, et al., (2006) A search for cellular and molecular mechanisms involved in depleted uranium (DU) toxicity. Environmental Toxicology, 21: 349–354. doi: 10.1002/tox.20196,
Schroeder, H., (2003) 'Chromosome aberration analysis in peripheral lymphocytes of Gulf War and Balkans War veterans'. Radiation Protection Dosimetry 103(3), pp. 211-219.
Shen, Z., (2011) 'Genomic instability and cancer: an introduction'. Journal of Molecular Cell Biology 3(1), pp.1–3.
Song, Y. et al., (2012) 'Early stress responses in Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) exposed to environmentally relevant concentrations of uranium'. Aquatic Toxicology 112-113, February pp.62-71.
Stearns, D. M. et al., (2005) 'Uranyl acetate induces hprt mutations and uranium-DNA adducts in Chinese hamster ovary EM9 cells'. Mutagenesis 20(6), November pp.417-423.
The Royal Society, (2001) The health hazards of depleted uranium munitions: Part I; [online] available at https://royalsociety.org/policy/publications/2001/health-uranium-munitions-i/ accessed 28 July 2014
The Royal Society, (2002) The health hazards of depleted uranium munitions: Part II [online] available at https://royalsociety.org/policy/publications/2002/health-uranium-munitions-ii/accessed 28 July 2014
Thiebault, C. et al., (2007) 'Uranium induces apoptosis and Is genotoxic to normal rat kidney (NRK-58E) proximal cells', Toxicological Sciences 98(2), August, pp.479-487.
Todorov, T.I. et al., (2013) 'Uranium quantification in semen by inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry'. Journal of Trace Elements in Medicine and Biology 27(1), January pp.2-6.
UK Ministry of Defence, (2013) UK depleted uranium (DU) munitions policy and development [online] available at https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210641/Depleted_Uranium.pdf accessed 28 July 2014
UN Secretary General, "Effects of the use of armaments and ammunitions containing depleted uranium", Report of the UN Secretary-General, Addendum, p.3, 2010. [UN document, A/65/129/Add.1]
Weir, D., (2012) Precaution in Practice: challenging the acceptability of depleted uranium weapons, ICBUW [online] available at: http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/en/precaution-in-practice
WHO, (2001) Depleted uranium: sources, exposure and health effects Executive summary [online] available at http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiation/pub_meet/en/DU_Eng.pdf?ua=1 accessed 28 July 2014
Wise, S.S., (2007) 'Particulate depleted uranium is cytotoxic and clastogenic to human lung cells'. Chemical Research in Toxicology 20(5): May pp. 815-820.
Xie, H. et al., (2010) 'Depleted uranium induces neoplastic transformation in human lung epithelial cells'. Chemical Research in Toxicology 23, February, pp.373-378.
Yazzie, M. et al., (2003) 'Uranyl acetate causes DNA single strand breaks in vitro in the presence of ascorbate (Vitamin C)', Chemical Research in Toxicology 16, April, pp. 524-530.
Zaire, R., (1997) 'Unexpected rates of chromosomal instabilities and alterations of hormonal levels in Namibian uranium mines'. Radiation Research 147, May pp.579-584.
Zwijnenburg, W., (2014) Laid to Waste: depleted uranium contaminated military scrap in Iraq. PAX, [online] http://www.paxvoorvrede.nl/media/files/pax-rapport-iraq-final-lowres-spread.pdf accessed 28 July 2014.ICBUW: Malignant Effects 31

I don't consider any of the propaganda from the UN or the World Health Organization as being eith very credible or reliable.  Time and time again, their efforts to engage in Neo-Lysenkoism, to serve their political agenda, makes everything they do very suspect.

The pseudoscience of Global Warming (sic: Climate Change) is a good example of why the credibilty of such "international" organizations is very suspect.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 01:03:57 PM
We are not to blame for how other countries use their weaponry.

But if we sold Sadaam chemical weapons before, during and after he used them on Kurdish Civilians we would no doubt share some complicity. 

You tell me, did we know for a fact that what we sold him was being used and sold him more?

QuoteIf I gave a terrorist a bomb knowing he would blow up a school, as the scumbags sometimes do, I'd be responsible no?

Straw man, try again.

QuoteWould it be ok for other armies to use uranium is my real question?  If we can use then everybody can no?

Yes.

Quote from: wally on May 13, 2015, 01:40:40 PM
I don't consider any of the propaganda from the UN or the World Health Organization as being eith very credible or reliable.  Time and time again, their efforts to engage in Lysenkoism, to serve their political agenda, makes everything they do very suspect.

The pseudoscience of Global Warming (sic: Climate Change) is a good example of why the credibilty of such "international" organizations is very suspect.

There are 50 peer reviewed articles there and I don't see one from the UN.

Im not sure your point.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 01:26:47 PM
My apologies:


Alberts, B. et al., (2008) Molecular Biology of the Cell 5th Edition, New York, Garland Science .
Arfsten, D.P., (2001) 'A review of the effects of uranium and depleted uranium exposure on reproduction and fetal development'. Toxicology and Industrial Health 17(5-10), June pp. 180-91.
Bakhmutsky, M.V., (2010) 'Long term depleted uranium exposure in Gulf War I veterans does not cause elevated numbers of micronuclei in peripheral blood lymphocytes'. Mutation Research 720(1-2) February pp53-7. Epub 2010 Dec 15.
Barillet, S. et al., (2007) 'Bioaccumulation, oxidative stress, and neurotoxicity in Danio rerio exposed to different isotopic compositions of uranium'. Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry 26(1): March pp.497-505.
Barillet, S. et al., (2010) 'Ultrastructural effects on gill, muscle, and gonadal tissues induced in zebrafish (Danio rerio) by a waterborne uranium exposure'. Aquatic Toxicology 100(3) November pp. 295-302.
Barillet, S. et al., (2011) 'Uranium bioaccumulation and biological disorders induced in zebrafish (Danio rerio) after a depleted uranium waterborne exposure'. Environmental Pollution 159(2), November pp.

Just taking the first dozen or so, in no way supports your case re: "Depleted" uranium.
Zebra fish toxicology? Last time I checked, they were nowhere near the theater of war in Iraq.

And again, water born uranium is not depleted in the least.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 01:42:52 PM
There are 50 peer reviewed articles there and I don't see one from the UN.

Im not sure your point.

from "What we do" 

(snip)

"Our primary role is to direct and coordinate international health within the United Nations' system"

http://www.who.int/about/en/

This a compilation of 50 Peer reviewed journals the conclusion of which is the more time we have to study uranium the more likely it causes defects and cancer.


To take the first dozen in alphabetical order is a complete misunderstanding of analysis in my view.


But if you feel you are smarter then all of these researchers, etc, that's fine by me.  The truth is not really debated anymore.

It was initially in the late 90s.  But as time went on and more research became available a consensus has formed.  The US and British government continue to block new reports the leaks of which show statically signifant data linking cancer to uranium.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 12:24:32 PM
I agree about being skeptical about the UN.

Just curious though.  Do you think we commit any abuses or you think its all rubbish?

The U.S. is the most benevolent and generous Nation in the world.

Have we ever hurt people along the way?  Of course.  There is no such thing as immaculate interaction with other Nations.

But in the overall scheme of things, the U.S. has never abused a group of people unjustly.

The nearest thing that comes to mind is Obama's abuse of American citizens that disagree with him.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 01:50:55 PM
This a compilation of 50 Peer reviewed journals the conclusion of which is the more time we have to study uranium the more likely it causes defects and cancer.


To take the first dozen in alphabetical order is a complete misunderstanding of analysis in my view.


But if you feel you are smarter then all of these researchers, etc, that's fine by me.  The truth is not really debated anymore.

It was initially in the late 90s.  But as time went on and more research became available a consensus has formed.  The US and British government continue to block new reports the leaks of which show statically signifant data linking cancer to uranium.

Asking for you to backup your assertions is standard OP on this forum.
For you to flood us with 50 sources, expecting us to sort through is nothing short of insulting, and a dodge on your part, in assuming we'll magically discover the one article that supports your claims.

If you have something solid and relevant to your claim re: depleted uranium, then post it, but don't waste our time with that nonsense.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 13, 2015, 01:50:55 PM
This a compilation of 50 Peer reviewed journals the conclusion of which is the more time we have to study uranium the more likely it causes defects and cancer.


To take the first dozen in alphabetical order is a complete misunderstanding of analysis in my view.


But if you feel you are smarter then all of these researchers, etc, that's fine by me.  The truth is not really debated anymore.

It was initially in the late 90s.  But as time went on and more research became available a consensus has formed.  The US and British government continue to block new reports the leaks of which show statically signifant data linking cancer to uranium.

Being a researcher doesn't make you smart.  I'm sorry to break the news to you.