Quote from: Solar on November 26, 2013, 04:10:46 AM
Ya know, I have been extremely patient with your complete ignorance of the subject, but when you can't even follow the flow of a simple conversation, I see I'm completely wasting my time.

Don't take this as an insult, there is none intended, but I believe your age is catching up with you.
Try taking salmon oil capsules, it really helps clear my thought pattern it really does.

Solar, apparently both you and I don't know what you're writing about.  I wrote that it would help if your posts were specific.  In this case, (reply #36), you refer to a post but I have no idea what post you're referring to.  You have written opinions that you may consider as facts, but opinions are just opinions.

This quoted reply # 44 is typical of too many of your replies.  Within my prior reply, (#43), I request the specific post you're referring to and your response is opinionated commentary with no facts or logical arguments.  You should consider this reply as a critique of your post.

I have sufficient pateince for both of us.  Some of my grandchildren are extremely young. In time they'll learn and I suppose you too will mature.


Respectfully, Supposn

Quote from: Supposn on November 26, 2013, 11:29:26 PM
Solar, apparently both you and I don't know what you're writing about.  I wrote that it would help if your posts were specific.  In this case, (reply #36), you refer to a post but I have no idea what post you're referring to.  You have written opinions that you may consider as facts, but opinions are just opinions.

This quoted reply # 44 is typical of too many of your replies.  Within my prior reply, (#43), I request the specific post you're referring to and your response is opinionated commentary with no facts or logical arguments.  You should consider this reply as a critique of your post.

I have sufficient pateince for both of us.  Some of my grandchildren are extremely young. In time they'll learn and I suppose you too will mature.


Respectfully, Supposn

What post was I replying to? The, very post I was quoting,  Reply #33.
Just never mind, I don't want to waste anymore time on someone so biased that they fail to see the issue of increased taxation, no matter how the leftists package it.

Ya know, I'm not even sure you realize you're supporting socialist policy, policies that kill industry.

Quote from: Supposn on November 23, 2013, 07:37:42 PMSolar,...Other than the additional paper work submitted by an enterprise for any purchases they made without evoking their sales tax ID to obtain a waiver of sales tax, there is no additional paper work burden upon any enterprise; (i.e. enterprises additional VAT paper work is to recover tax expenditure which are unrecoverable within other than VAT's method of sales tax administration). ...

I would be surprised if you were not knowledgeable of your own enterprises but I would also be surprised if you were to claim your enterprises' models are entirely perfect fits as descriptive models for all other enterprises. 

Respectfully, Supposn

Solar, in response to your reply #30, I Responded with agreement  within my reply #33 and mentioned circumstances that your message did not address.  Some of my family and acquaintances are entrepreneurs and they all share your experiences but some also encounter other situations which you apparently are unaware of.
[I.E.  I acknowledged and agreed with your facts and I additionally mentioned other facts you do not mention or acknowledge]. 

I was correct; you not only do not know what you write and occasionally (as I myself), you don't recall what you've written).  You go further and won't accept yes for answer when someone you oppose is to some extent in agreement with you.

Since your post #30 was posted, your responses continue to lack any facts or logical arguments; you provide only labels with no explanation as to their application to this topic.

Respectfully, Supposn

You guys ain't impressed with VAT.

I presented the advantages of VAT over every other administrating method for a general sales tax.  Unlike most if not all other sales tax methods, a final purchaser of any item in any form ALWAYS pay the exact total amount of VAT that was received as VAT revenue by all governments' that ever had any VAT jurisdiction over that sales item in any form; (i.e. .total VAT revenues of ALL governments ALWAYS EXACTLY EQUALS the total VAT paid by all final purchasers.

In practice I'm aware of no other general sales tax method that actually accomplishes that.

In practice I'm aware of no other sales tax method that's more friendly to commercial enterprises or has less tax evasion net tax revenue (after reduction of enforcement costs).  I conclude that the only logical reason for anyone choosing a less superior method of a general sales tax administration is chauvinistic inability to accept other nations' have adopted the superior method before us.

Respectfully, Supposn

Quote from: Supposn on December 06, 2013, 09:33:52 AM

You guys ain't impressed with VAT.

Respectfully, Supposn

I am impressed it only took you 7 page to get that through your thick head.   

Quote from: walkstall on December 06, 2013, 10:03:52 AM

I am impressed it only took you 7 page to get that through your thick head.   

OMG!!! He actually thinks he can convince Conservatives, that a socialist tax system is somehow better?

Quote from: Solar on December 06, 2013, 10:06:26 AM
OMG!!! He actually thinks he can convince Conservatives, that a socialist tax system is somehow better?

Now you know why he is not on a Nobel peace prize list.

Quote from: walkstall on December 06, 2013, 10:24:59 AM

Now you know why he is not on a Nobel peace prize list.

Ah, c'mon, Hussein got one for showing up.

Quote from: Solar on December 06, 2013, 10:06:26 AM
OMG!!! He actually thinks he can convince Conservatives, that a socialist tax system is somehow better? :lol

Solar, the concept of taxing to obtain government revenue is neither socialistic nor capitalistic.
The concept of sales tax as a method of taxation is neither socialistic, nor capitalistic.
The concept of value added tax, (VAT) is a method of sales tax and is neither socialistic, nor capitalistic.

Not every concept that conservatives are opposed to is socialism.
Not every concept that conservatives are proponents of is capitalistic.
I suppose that all of your opinions are not in complete agreement with the majority of conservatives and everything you oppose are not in agreement with the majority of socialists.  That's similar to my own opinions when considering my own assessments of concepts.   

Not every concept you or I believe are capitalistic or conservative or socialistic or liberal may actually be as we believe them to be and they may actually not fit within any of those categories.  Our opinions are not facts.

Respectfully, Supposn

Quote from: Supposn on December 10, 2013, 09:40:37 PM
Solar, the concept of taxing to obtain government revenue is neither socialistic nor capitalistic.
The concept of sales tax as a method of taxation is neither socialistic, nor capitalistic.
The concept of value added tax, (VAT) is a method of sales tax and is neither socialistic, nor capitalistic.

Not every concept that conservatives are opposed to is socialism.
Not every concept that conservatives are proponents of is capitalistic.
I suppose that all of your opinions are not in complete agreement with the majority of conservatives and everything you oppose are not in agreement with the majority of socialists.  That's similar to my own opinions when considering my own assessments of concepts.   

Not every concept you or I believe are capitalistic or conservative or socialistic or liberal may actually be as we believe them to be and they may actually not fit within any of those categories.  Our opinions are not facts.

Respectfully, Supposn

On the VAT you would be wrong, the VAT is every bit anti capitalist, it goes completely against the values of Liberty and freedom.
What you are advocating is intrusion in the private sector using govt as a tool to control every step of production and steal a portion from each and every player in it's construction.

You fail to understand conservatives like govt, just not an invasive one, what you advocate here in the use of VAT is beyond invasive, it's next to communistic, the next step to Nationalizing.

Quote from: Solar on December 11, 2013, 06:22:09 AM
On the VAT you would be wrong, the VAT is every bit anti capitalist, it goes completely against the values of Liberty and freedom.
What you are advocating is intrusion in the private sector using govt as a tool to control every step of production and steal a portion from each and every player in it's construction. ...

Solar, is it your contention that ALL sales taxes are anti-capitalistic or are you contending the other sales taxes are generally not contrary to the concepts of capitalism; but value added taxes, (VATs) are somehow anti-capitalistic?
You are not aware that among generally practiced methods of sales tax administration, VAT is NOT LESS but is somewhat MORE advantageous to commercial entities?
Additionally unlike most if not all general sales tax methods, the explicitly stated sales tax items within all transaction links within commercial chains of transactions, (from the first to the final link), does not exceed the entire sales tax received by all VAT government jurisdictions; this is not true of any other general sales tax administrative method.

Within all income tax environments, seller's taxable incomes are reduced by the sales taxes that they pay and they are not taxed upon the any types of taxes they turn over to the Treasury Department as agents of the government.

VAT is among the many sales tax administration methods that makes provisions for sellers to waive taxes for commercial buyers that provide valid tax ID's.  But unlike other sales tax methods, (when as often happens in practice), purchasers' tax waiver ID's are not available at the times and points of sales transactions, commercial purchasers submit the paper trail and deduct the sales taxes they paid from the sales taxes they as sellers collected, and turn over only the differences between what the collected and paid as the revenue passed on to the Treasury Department.

That reduction of taxes and improvement of cash flow is what enables VAT to be commercial entities most advantageous of sales tax administration methods.

Why should anyone comparing other sales tax methods generally practiced prior to the current (generally more often adopted accepted) VAT method, not conclude your reply post is complete nonsense?  How did you as an intelligent person ever reach such a nonsensical conclusion?

Respectfully, Supposn

Quote from: Supposn on December 22, 2013, 01:44:39 PM
Solar, is it your contention that ALL sales taxes are anti-capitalistic or are you contending the other sales taxes are generally not contrary to the concepts of capitalism; but value added taxes, (VATs) are somehow anti-capitalistic?
You are not aware that among generally practiced methods of sales tax administration, VAT is NOT LESS but is somewhat MORE advantageous to commercial entities?
Additionally unlike most if not all general sales tax methods, the explicitly stated sales tax items within all transaction links within commercial chains of transactions, (from the first to the final link), does not exceed the entire sales tax received by all VAT government jurisdictions; this is not true of any other general sales tax administrative method.

Within all income tax environments, seller's taxable incomes are reduced by the sales taxes that they pay and they are not taxed upon the any types of taxes they turn over to the Treasury Department as agents of the government.

VAT is among the many sales tax administration methods that makes provisions for sellers to waive taxes for commercial buyers that provide valid tax ID's.  But unlike other sales tax methods, (when as often happens in practice), purchasers' tax waiver ID's are not available at the times and points of sales transactions, commercial purchasers submit the paper trail and deduct the sales taxes they paid from the sales taxes they as sellers collected, and turn over only the differences between what the collected and paid as the revenue passed on to the Treasury Department.

That reduction of taxes and improvement of cash flow is what enables VAT to be commercial entities most advantageous of sales tax administration methods.

Why should anyone comparing other sales tax methods generally practiced prior to the current (generally more often adopted accepted) VAT method, not conclude your reply post is complete nonsense?  How did you as an intelligent person ever reach such a nonsensical conclusion?

Respectfully, Supposn

Don't be so thick, I've told you in the past that taxes are not socialist, income taxes are.

As to you nonsense about VAT "
VAT is among the many sales tax administration methods that makes provisions for sellers to waive taxes for commercial buyers that provide valid tax ID's
Is pure bull shit, anyone can do anything they want to any form of tax to make it more palatable to the end user, but the fact remains that a VAT cost far more to have as a socialist tax, and YES, it's Socialist, no matter how you want to spin it!

Some form of consumption tax is preferable to income tax. The reason is simple. It is not because republicans hate sunshine, puppies and the baby Jesus. It is because not enough people have enough skin in the game. When less than 20% of voters put more into the system than they take out, then the vast majority of voters have no sense of urgency about basic concepts of fiscal responsibility or good governance.

Wealth redistribution on this scale has a corrosive effect on our representative form of government.

Quote from: DanM70 on December 22, 2013, 04:40:39 PM
Some form of consumption tax is preferable to income tax. The reason is simple. It is not because republicans hate sunshine, puppies and the baby Jesus. It is because not enough people have enough skin in the game. When less than 20% of voters put more into the system than they take out, then the vast majority of voters have no sense of urgency about basic concepts of fiscal responsibility or good governance.

Wealth redistribution on this scale has a corrosive effect on our representative form of government.

Yes!  You also turn the leeches, illegals, and really everyone into tax payers.

Quote from: taxed on December 22, 2013, 05:00:14 PM
Yes!  You also turn the leeches, illegals, and really everyone into tax payers.

There is a difference between a social safety net for the nation's most vulnerable and subsidizing the lifestyle of tens of millions like we do today.