Quote from: Egg on December 18, 2013, 11:18:46 AM
By all polling, it certainly appears conservatives are much more anti-legalization than liberals.  Here's a Gallup poll from way back in 2005.  Though the overall numbers have been changing since then, I'm sure the fundamentals are the same:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/19561/who-supports-marijuana-legalization.aspx

You'll see regionally (the South), by age (older), by church attendance (weekly church goers) and political self-identification ("conservative") conservatives are the ones who are most against legalization. While young, Godless, Left Coast liberals tend to be most for it.

Note the absence of a States Right question, this one was geared towards a Federal law/action, completely usurping the Right of the State to decide if it wants to take on the headache associated with such a power grab.
Conservatives tend to view the issue deeper than the left, the left usually has a knee jerk emotional reaction.

Quote from: cpicturetaker12 on December 18, 2013, 10:51:22 AM
Funny, how they 'pick and choose' their HANDS OFF GOVERNMENT intrusions.  Pot and uteruses--they're all in!

Sometimes there are such things as morals, ethics, character, and values.

Though I  know that none are required for any of your beliefs.

And I'm all for making all of these into states' issues.  Let people like you move to and wallow in the sewage of states with no religion, free abortion on demand, no drug laws.......just streets and ditches full of people screwing and relieving themselves and getting high every possible way.

And the rest of us could live in states that have their own values.

Quote from: Solar on December 18, 2013, 11:47:50 AM
Note the absence of a States Right question, this one was geared towards a Federal law/action, completely usurping the Right of the State to decide if it wants to take on the headache associated with such a power grab.
Conservatives tend to view the issue deeper than the left, the left usually has a knee jerk emotional reaction.

If the question was "Do you believe the federal government should defer to the states on policy?" we'd see overwhelming support from conservatives.  But as you note, that wasn't the question.  The question was simply if one supports pot legalization, and conservatives are clearly against it.  One has to assume, therefore, that if it shows up on states ballots that it would be voted down by conservatives. And where such state votes have recently occurred, it has been conservatives who've been against it. 

Okay, the Republicans legalize purchase and use of old Mary Jane.
Congratulations, now you get start the debate all over again with the next least offensive drug.
There's more than one reason why marijuana is known as the "gateway" drug.

Quote from: Ulsterking on December 18, 2013, 12:32:53 PM
Okay, the Republicans legalize purchase and use of old Mary Jane.
Congratulations, now you get start the debate all over again with the next least offensive drug.
There's more than one reason why marijuana is known as the "gateway" drug.

lol, the only "gateway" is the one to approval for more and more filthy behaviors.  Always "the next one" ready for roll-out.

But that's probably what you were saying  !

Just like abortion.  It started as first trimester, "could never go beyond that".  Now we've slid all the way through late-term, partial-birth, and Gosnell-flavored infanticide.  Make no mistake, the filthy progressives have China-style child-murder as a goal.  Whatever helps the socialist-communist model take shape.

Quote from: grace_note on December 18, 2013, 07:33:28 AM
Plus wasn't it Democrats who banned alcohol?

I looked that up once; Prohibition was a part of the Progressive movement.  It started with a few ridiculously tiny excise taxes, and in only a few years had become a complete nationwide ban on everything.  Then the government "generously" gave one millennia-old right back to the people -- who gushed with gratitude.

But, as Liberaltarians constantly remind us, it would be insane and idiotic to make an issue of this now.  Get rid of Socialism FIRST, then drugs and a thousand other problems will suddenly become infinitely easier to deal with.

Until and unless that happens, legal drugs and a Welfare state are like matches and a powder keg.

This is an issue that the heart of is a simple thing, "Life, Liberty and property". If a grown up adult wants to grow a little weed, or chew some coca leaves or raise some poppies on his/her property it's nobodies business but theirs. PERIOD.

Quote from: Ulsterking on December 18, 2013, 12:32:53 PM
Okay, the Republicans legalize purchase and use of old Mary Jane.
Congratulations, now you get start the debate all over again with the next least offensive drug.
There's more than one reason why marijuana is known as the "gateway" drug.

That marijuana is a "gateway drug" is a myth: 

http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/10-facts-about-marijuana

It's long been understood as a myth, but there are many Interests who benefit by it being illegal:  the cops and sherrifs' unions, the prison guards' unions, the prison industry, and all the various industries which serve law enforcement.  Not to mention politicians running for reelection and pandering to their constituency that they are "tough on law and order!" 

It's an offense to every notion of liberty that adult citizens can be locked up by the state and have their lives ruined for wanting to get stoned on marijuana.  We're not talking about crack or some kind of agent that so disables the person that he becomes a menace to society - such as alcohol, for instance.  This is so well understood by now that the stereotype of the stoner is a giggling guy with the munchies, not a violent or ruined heroin zombie.   

To me the question of marijuana legalization is a test of whether or not the American electorate is capable of dealing logically and sanely with an issue which has become clearly much more a stand-in for our culture war, than an issue of public safety. 

Quote from: Egg on December 18, 2013, 01:23:14 PM
That marijuana is a "gateway drug" is a myth: 

http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/10-facts-about-marijuana

It's long been understood as a myth, but there are many Interests who benefit by it being illegal:  the cops and sherrifs' unions, the prison guards' unions, the prison industry, and all the various industries which serve law enforcement.  Not to mention politicians running for reelection and pandering to their constituency that they are "tough on law and order!" 

It's an offense to every notion of liberty that adult citizens can be locked up by the state and have their lives ruined for wanting to get stoned on marijuana.  We're not talking about crack or some kind of agent that so disables the person that he becomes a menace to society - such as alcohol, for instance.  This is so well understood by now that the stereotype of the stoner is a giggling guy with the munchies, not a violent or ruined heroin zombie.   

To me the question of marijuana legalization is a test of whether or not the American electorate is capable of dealing logically and sanely with an issue which has become clearly much more a stand-in for our culture war, than an issue of public safety.

All drugs can be gateway drugs, it depends of genetics and values.

Quote from: Solar on December 18, 2013, 01:40:44 PM
All drugs can be gateway drugs, it depends of genetics and values.

The "gateway drug" theory states that a person who would otherwise not be inclined to become an addict can begin smoking pot and this "turns" him into a hard drug user or addict.  That's where it becomes a "myth."   

I agree with the spirit of your statement, however.  For the person who is going to become an addict, pot (and alcohol) is probably among his first steps.

Myth or not, I don't use the term "gateway" in that context. The argument still stands that the debate simply gets kicked down to the next substance and the Republicans will be denied any political capital. The move would simply be turned sideways into a negative, or ignored all together by the Left.

Quote from: Ulsterking on December 18, 2013, 02:03:32 PM
Myth or not, I don't use the term "gateway" in that context. The argument still stands that the debate simply gets kicked down to the next substance and the Republicans will be denied any political capital. The move would simply be turned sideways into a negative, or ignored all together by the Left.

Well said.

Quote from: Ulsterking on December 18, 2013, 02:03:32 PM
Myth or not, I don't use the term "gateway" in that context. The argument still stands that the debate simply gets kicked down to the next substance and the Republicans will be denied any political capital. The move would simply be turned sideways into a negative, or ignored all together by the Left.

This is an all or nothing approach which I think hurts policy making.  Pot is practically harmless from a social safety point of view, and it's a matter of liberty and keeping government in its place that we should make it legal for adults to use it.  We know enough about the drug and its effects to make that decision. 

Other drugs should be considered on their own merits or demerits.   

Quote from: Egg on December 18, 2013, 11:13:18 AM
The answer is simple:  fear.  There are enough voters with an irrational fear of pot to make it too dangerous for politicians to take the rational position of wanting to legalize it.  There is still too much risk for politicians to be pro-legalization, while there is not enough pain in being against it. 

But it's amazing how rational, pro-legalization and states' rights many ex-governors, ex-chiefs of police, ex-judges and others get once they retire. 

Thankfully the cracks in the dam are growing very quickly and we will see a "sudden" transfer of the issue from the feds to the states, who will be able to make up their own minds as they see fit.

YEP!  Legalize it and TAX THE HELL OF IT!  But be prepared for the eventuality that like ANY susbstance, some people will not deal well with using it--the range could be minimal or vast and we won't know until some history.  That has to be realized and prepared for. 

Quote from: AndyJackson on December 18, 2013, 12:23:56 PM
Sometimes there are such things as morals, ethics, character, and values.

Certainly. And those are all wonderful things :) But we conservatives don't believe in enforcing them by law. Moral people don't need laws to tell them how they should life. They govern themselves. That very idea is what separates the West from the Middle East.

Quote from: AndyJackson on December 18, 2013, 12:23:56 PM

And I'm all for making all of these into states' issues.  Let people like you move to and wallow in the sewage of states with no religion, free abortion on demand, no drug laws.......just streets and ditches full of people screwing and relieving themselves and getting high every possible way.

And the rest of us could live in states that have their own values.

Wait, I'm confused. Where did religion come into the picture?  I never mentioned banning religion, nor do I believe that such a thing should happen. I'm a firm supporter of religious freedom. Where did you get the idea that I was saying religion should be banned?

Anyway, making it a states issue was my whole point. Decriminalizing it at the federal level will leave it to the states. And likewise, leaving it to the states will bring more support for the Republican party, which they really need if they're going to lead the fight against the liberal big government agenda.