Looking to buy a new car, truck or crossover? You may find it more difficult to stretch the household budget than you expected, according to a new study that finds median-income families in only one major U.S. city actually can afford the typical new vehicle.
According to the 2013 Car Affordability Study by Interest.com, only in Washington could the typical household swing the payments, the median income there running $86,680 a year. At the other extreme, Tampa, Fla., was at the bottom of the 25 large cities included in the study, with a median household income of $43,832.
The study looked at a variety of household expenses, such as food and housing, and when it comes to purchasing a new vehicle, it considered more than just the basic purchase price, down payment and monthly note, factoring in such essentials as taxes and insurance.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cars-increasingly-reach-many-americans-145957880.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cars-increasingly-reach-many-americans-145957880.html)
Well, it is no wonder when vehicle prices have about doubled in 10 years. My truck, that was bought new in 2002 cost $32,000. The same truck now, with a much lesser engine which is all that is available, is stickered at around $56,000 depending on the dealership.
A union auto worker make over $75/hr with wages and benefits and them they try to sell the car to a guy making $10 or $12/hr with no benefits. The math just doesn't work out. I don't like what the unions have done but we also need to look at the cars, do we really want to pay for all the gadgets.
Before I lose it amoung my workpile I want to quickly interject that somebody thought 'cash for clunkers' was a good idea, so now even used cars are more expensive :angry:
It is a fairly simple answer. The average auto worker who is semi skilled make about $75/hr with wages and benefits. They try to sell the car to someone who makes about $10/hr with no benefits. The math just doesn't add up.
It's been many years since I've even looked at buying a new car. The last one I bought was in the year 2000. It was a Toyota Avalon. Still humming along just like new with no maintenance bills. Now that's a good return on your dollar. They aren't union made either so the quality really shows through.
I've never bought a new car, and never will.
I let other people eat the depreciation, then pick them up cheap.
The last time I bought a new car was right after 9/11/01 when car dealerships were trying to get everyone to buy. I bought a Mercury Cougar. Loved that car :wub:, then we decided to have a family and we have bought used vehicles ever since and I don't mind a bit. :biggrin:
Although this is a Canadian study, auto workers don't make 75 per hour.
http://www.caw.ca/assets/pdf/Whats_YOUR_All-in_Hourly_Labour_Cost.pdf (http://www.caw.ca/assets/pdf/Whats_YOUR_All-in_Hourly_Labour_Cost.pdf)
Business media will tell you it is the union's fault. They have an obvious incentive to do that.
Quote from: redlom xof on March 20, 2013, 07:04:01 PM
Although this is a Canadian study, auto workers don't make 75 per hour.
http://www.caw.ca/assets/pdf/Whats_YOUR_All-in_Hourly_Labour_Cost.pdf (http://www.caw.ca/assets/pdf/Whats_YOUR_All-in_Hourly_Labour_Cost.pdf)
Business media will tell you it is the union's fault. They have an obvious incentive to do that.
Maybe you should have looked at US figures.
The current veteran UAW member at GM today has an average base wage of $28.12 an hour, but the cost of benefits, including pension and future retiree health care costs, nearly triples the cost to GM to $78.21, according to the Center for Automotive Research.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/12/news/companies/gm/index.htm?cnn=yes (http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/12/news/companies/gm/index.htm?cnn=yes)
Quote from: redlom xof on March 20, 2013, 07:04:01 PM
Although this is a Canadian study, auto workers don't make 75 per hour.
http://www.caw.ca/assets/pdf/Whats_YOUR_All-in_Hourly_Labour_Cost.pdf (http://www.caw.ca/assets/pdf/Whats_YOUR_All-in_Hourly_Labour_Cost.pdf)
Business media will tell you it is the union's fault. They have an obvious incentive to do that.
Yes, they do. It's called "truth."
Yes Solar, But as the link I gave you said, you can't say workers are getting paid 75 $ per hour. They are getting on average 28$ per hour. If GM didn't have to deal with our highly expensive health care system, the cost would be a lot lower.
Another statistic which always sticks in my mind is this one. It cost a company 1000 $ ( depending on the car model etc) less to build a car in Canada than across the river in Detroit, because of the two different health care systems.
Our health care system hurts business. 75 % of business bankruptcy's are due to health care.
QuoteYes, they do. It's called "truth."
Why would a pro-business media company have more incentive to tell the truth ?
Quote from: redlom xof on March 20, 2013, 11:04:51 PM
Yes Solar, But as the link I gave you said, you can't say workers are getting paid 75 $ per hour. They are getting on average 28$ per hour. If GM didn't have to deal with our highly expensive health care system, the cost would be a lot lower.
Another statistic which always sticks in my mind is this one. It cost a company 1000 $ ( depending on the car model etc) less to build a car in Canada than across the river in Detroit, because of the two different health care systems.
Our health care system hurts business. 75 % of business bankruptcy's are due to health care.
Why would a pro-business media company have more incentive to tell the truth ?
I'm assuming that you're talking about how Obamacare is hurting businesses. In reality, it's unions and underfunded pension plans that are hurting US car companies the most.
http://www.openmarket.org/2010/10/18/killed-by-honest-accounting/ (http://www.openmarket.org/2010/10/18/killed-by-honest-accounting/)
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2011/03/08/5_reasons_unions_are_bad_for_america/page/full/ (http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2011/03/08/5_reasons_unions_are_bad_for_america/page/full/)
Quote from: redlom xof on March 20, 2013, 11:04:51 PM
Yes Solar, But as the link I gave you said, you can't say workers are getting paid 75 $ per hour. They are getting on average 28$ per hour. If GM didn't have to deal with our highly expensive health care system, the cost would be a lot lower.
Another statistic which always sticks in my mind is this one. It cost a company 1000 $ ( depending on the car model etc) less to build a car in Canada than across the river in Detroit, because of the two different health care systems.
Our health care system hurts business. 75 % of business bankruptcy's are due to health care.
Why would a pro-business media company have more incentive to tell the truth ?
Regardless, how many companies do you know that give unskilled employees pensions?
There's a reason people complain about the $75. an hor price tag, no one on America gets that much in total compensation, it's not real world wage, and Husein bailed them out and left the nonunion worker penniless, literally stole their retirements.
But you complain that HC costs are less in Canada? I challenge you to finally use some critical thinking and investigate the "true cost", the cost we've all been trying to get through to you guys since the beginning.
I'm not even talking about the cost as in loss of jobs, that's a whole other can O worms...
Health care costs are lower in Canada -- maybe -- because you get less health care. The exact same thing is coming here. Obamacare is explicitly designed to end the private health care insurance industry completely and replace it with a single-payer (100% government) system.
There is a very significant amount of travel that goes Canada ---> US for the purpose of getting immediate high-quality medical treatment. There is virtually NO traffic in the other direction. Once Ocare kicks in full force, I'm sure that imbalance will disappear.
Quote from: simpsonofpg on March 14, 2013, 01:19:20 PM
It is a fairly simple answer. The average auto worker who is semi skilled make about $75/hr with wages and benefits. They try to sell the car to someone who makes about $10/hr with no benefits. The math just doesn't add up.
I guess you've never been told that if you make 10.00 an hour, you just DON'T GET a new / nice car.
Your liberal world where everyone gets a 35K car because they want it, is a farcical myth dreamed up by child minds. Same with everyone getting their government-issued 200-300K house. ooops....that's right, they actually tried that and it destroyed the US economy.
If you want a nice car or house, you get off your ass and figure out how you're going to get to 20.00 per hour. And even then you have to budget for that, if you want it. Maybe you don't get 500.00 worth of TV, phone, Chivas each month.
If you make 10.00 an hour, you're either a teen working a first job, a retiree working as a hobby, or somebody who has zero professional credibility. And you shouldn't expect nice new baubles if you're the third guy. Work hard and get promotions, go to school and training, work OT and/or a second job. Then you get your nice stuff.
Liberals...always announcing that you should get everything for being a lazy, inert slob.
Well said, AJ.
Consider too that, IMHO, at least 50% of the cost of a new automobile is directly the result of federal government regulations and mandates. When I was scarfing Smarties out of a penny roll, seat belts were an option you could order if you wanted them, as was a heater, and in some cases a back seat. Cars today are so loaded with shit it's a wonder they can be bought even for their astronomical prices.
Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, et. al. would be rolling in their graves....
Ah you americans :tounge: You have reason to complain yes, but as the scene from American Tail where they are singing about which country has it most corrupt, you should see how it is in my country
The Taxes on imported cars are calculated on many different factors, but I used the price of $58000 US car and the value of the average power of normal personal cars and this is what that car would cost in my country. (keep on mind Norway has no car industry so all cars are imported cars)
Beregning Merverdiavgift: 84 535,00
Engangsavgift:
Avgift for egenvekt: 194 469,50
Avgift for motoreffekt: 2 750,00
Avgift for CO2: 38 410,00
Avgift for NOx: 6 790,00
Engangsavgift for tilsvarende nytt kjøretøy: 242 419,50
Bruksfradrag (2%): -4 848,39
Totalt i engangsavgift: 237 571,00
Vrakpantavgift: 2 000,00
Totalt i avgifter: 324 106,00
Totalpris for dette kjøretøyet inkludert avgifter: 662 246,00 NOK to US dollar
662 246,00NOK= $113908.17
And the median income in norway is $35000 :rolleyes:
It is not going to get bettetr until and if we can get rid of the unions or at least right to work laws. We can't compete with the labor cost from over seas. Wait until the Chinese start to export cars into the world market. We are screwed when they do. On a positive side the use car market will do very well as well and repair shops to keep the older cars running.
Quote from: simpsonofpg on April 02, 2013, 05:10:03 PM
It is not going to get bettetr until and if we can get rid of the unions or at least put in place right to work laws. We can't compete with the labor cost from over seas. Wait until the Chinese start to export cars into the world market. We are screwed when they do. On a positive side the use car market will do very well as well and repair shops to keep the older cars running.
FIFY.
What is the best time of year to buy a car? When do they roll out the best deals -- is it around the holidays?
I'm planning to buy a new car later this year.
Quote from: doublejm1 on April 02, 2013, 08:17:05 PM
What is the best time of year to buy a car? When do they roll out the best deals -- is it around the holidays?
I'm planning to buy a new car later this year.
I'd recommend last years models, the dealers need to unload them before 2014s arrive.
Quote from: doublejm1 on April 02, 2013, 08:17:05 PM
What is the best time of year to buy a car? When do they roll out the best deals -- is it around the holidays?
I'm planning to buy a new car later this year.
The old days of haggling with car dealers are over.
I can't remember the specific sites, but if you know what kind of car you want, you can plug it into a search engine, and it will give you the best price within a specific radius of your location. From there, you may be able to get extra goodies over the phone. Then you just go pick up your car.
Quote from: kramarat on April 03, 2013, 04:34:01 AM
The old days of haggling with car dealers are over.
I can't remember the specific sites, but if you know what kind of car you want, you can plug it into a search engine, and it will give you the best price within a specific radius of your location. From there, you may be able to get extra goodies over the phone. Then you just go pick up your car.
That's how I did it, called all the dealers on a 2013 Subaru to see who was willing to deal the best and cheapest, then went in and demanded more in person.
Turned out, the place closest to where I live and the same place I bought the last Subaru had the best price, by several thousand dollars over all the dealers in Ca.
Took a total of a week of haggling over the phone.
what are the direct taxes in the US on cars?
In Norway with the exception of import tax it is
Registration Tax: $400-15000 depending on the age and size of engine
Annual Tax: $500
Quote from: Mountainshield on April 03, 2013, 10:02:38 AM
what are the direct taxes in the US on cars?
In Norway with the exception of import tax it is
Registration Tax: $400-15000 depending on the age and size of engine
Annual Tax: $500
Varies from state to state, here in Ca my 1 ton 4x4 diesel cost $2,500 in state license fees,7.5% tax on a $50 thousand dollar truck, with the claim that it would never require a smog check, then the state reneged on that deal and my brand new truck had to be smoged the 2nd year.
If I were in Montana, I could rip out the smog system and gain 10 MPG, Ca sucks.
Quote from: Solar on April 03, 2013, 10:09:33 AM
Varies from state to state, here in Ca my 1 ton 4x4 diesel cost $2,500 in state license fees,7.5% tax on a $50 thousand dollar truck, with the claim that it would never require a smog check, then the state reneged on that deal and my brand new truck had to be smoged the 2nd year.
If I were in Montana, I could rip out the smog system and gain 10 MPG, Ca sucks.
The state licence, is that annual?
Quote from: Mountainshield on April 03, 2013, 10:27:36 AM
The state licence, is that annual?
Yep, but it's based on the assumed worth of the vehicle, so it went down I think 70 bucks the first year, and 50 the next.
Problem is, it's a commercial vehicle because it's a PU truck, unless I put a camper shell on the back, then it can be registered as a car, but that defeats the purpose of owning a truck.
Ca Sucks!
Quote from: Solar on April 03, 2013, 10:34:33 AM
Yep, but it's based on the assumed worth of the vehicle, so it went down I think 70 bucks the first year, and 50 the next.
Problem is, it's a commercial vehicle because it's a PU truck, unless I put a camper shell on the back, then it can be registered as a car, but that defeats the purpose of owning a truck.
Ca Sucks!
You pay annual $2500 tax on your car? :scared: Damn, I hope thats because its in CA and that it is generally much lower in other states.
Quote from: Mountainshield on April 03, 2013, 10:38:29 AM
You pay annual $2500 tax on your car? :scared: Damn, I hope thats because its in CA and that it is generally much lower in other states.
Noooo :lol:
The 7.5% was sales tax, a one time tax, the license fee is annual, should be down around $250. in a few years.
Quote from: Mountainshield on April 03, 2013, 10:02:38 AM
what are the direct taxes in the US on cars?
In Norway with the exception of import tax it is
Registration Tax: $400-15000 depending on the age and size of engine
Annual Tax: $500
I have 2010 model that was $32,000 new and holds its value. My annual ad valorem tax is around $125 and an annual tag fee of $28. That is NC. I find this state to be quite low on the automobile taxes.
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 03, 2013, 10:46:47 AM
I have 2010 model that was $32,000 new and holds its value. My annual ad valorem tax is around $125 and an annual tag fee of $28. That is NC. I find this state to be quite low on the automobile taxes.
A minimum of 22% of Norway would love to live in North Carolina then :laugh:
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 03, 2013, 10:46:47 AM
I have 2010 model that was $32,000 new and holds its value. My annual ad valorem tax is around $125 and an annual tag fee of $28. That is NC. I find this state to be quite low on the automobile taxes.
My motor cycle cost more than that. :blink:
Hell, they even make us register off road vehicles here.
Did I mention Ca sucks? No, strike that, Libs suck! :laugh:
Quote from: Solar on April 03, 2013, 11:00:41 AM
My motor cycle cost more than that. :blink:
Hell, they even make us register off road vehicles here.
Did I mention Ca sucks? No, strike that, Libs suck! :laugh:
Property taxes are also very reasonable. Our county is also in good fiscal shape. We do not have public sector unions. Could there be a correlation?
Quote from: Solar on April 03, 2013, 11:00:41 AM
My motor cycle cost more than that. :blink:
Hell, they even make us register off road vehicles here.
Did I mention Ca sucks? No, strike that, Libs suck! :laugh:
My truck tabs were 42.00 $ last year and my 30' 5th Wheel was 32.00 $. No off road vehicle tab tax YET!
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 03, 2013, 11:36:37 AM
Property taxes are also very reasonable. Our county is also in good fiscal shape. We do not have public sector unions. Could there be a correlation?
We were lucky, we passed prop 13 which stops Govt from using property taxes to balance the budget.
Quote from: Solar on April 03, 2013, 12:35:57 PM
We were lucky, we passed prop 13 which stops Govt from using property taxes to balance the budget.
I am interested in knowing what the local CA response is to the judges's bankruptcy ruling conserning Stockton. I am sure the unions are screaming, but the what do the other citizens feel?
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 03, 2013, 12:42:44 PM
I am interested in knowing what the local CA response is to the judges's bankruptcy ruling conserning Stockton. I am sure the unions are screaming, but the what do the other citizens feel?
One word, Giddy. :biggrin:
People see it as a way to end the madness the libs are doing to the State.
Were broke and billions in debt, yet they turn around and spend a trillion on a bullet train, right along the San Andreas fault, a fault that would eat the train in a heart beat.
God libs are stupid!
Quote from: Solar on April 03, 2013, 12:49:24 PM
One word, Giddy. :biggrin:
People see it as a way to end the madness the libs are doing to the State.
Were broke and billions in debt, yet they turn around and spend a trillion on a bullet train, right along the San Andreas fault, a fault that would eat the train in a heart beat.
God libs are stupid!
I have a feeling Gov. Moonbeam and the Assembly are not happy campers right now. No way the "Tax More" program is going to work. All the takers really screwed up when they voted to raise taxes.