Not really good news for the TEA party. Now a majority of Americans and a majority of millionaires believe the minimum wage should be raised and the rich arent taxed enough.
In a democratic society the will of the people is supposed to win out.
Why are many TEA policy demands not in line with the American public's views?
"But CNBC's first-ever Millionaire Survey reveals that 51 percent of American millionaires believe inequality is a "major problem" for the U.S., and nearly two-thirds support higher taxes on the wealthy and a higher minimum wage as ways to narrow the wealth gap.
The findings show that—far from being a purely self-interested voting bloc—American millionaires have complicated views when it comes to the wealth gap and opportunity in America. They are unashamed of their own wealth and attribute their success to hard work, smart investing and savings. They also believe that anyone in America can get wealthy if they work hard."
The top 1% pay 36.73% of taxes paid. Income that year equal 19.3%.
The top 5% pay 58.66% of taxes paid. Income that year equal 34.73%.
The top 10% pay 70.47% of taxes paid. Income that year equal 45.77%.
The top 25% pay 87.30% of taxes paid. Income that year equal 67.38%.
The top 50% pay 97.75% of taxes paid. Income that year equal 87.25%
The bottom 50% pay 2.25% of taxes paid. Income that year equal 12.75%
As you can see, the income taxes are quite high enough.
Quote from: simo5656 on July 15, 2014, 07:52:38 AM
Not really good news for the TEA party. Now a majority of Americans and a majority of millionaires believe the minimum wage should be raised and the rich arent taxed enough.
It's what the money is spent
on, isn't it? You're defending the John Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County Airport... and its price-tag of 150-to-200-million. -Including 14-mill for a hangar, 18-mill for a runway, 8-mill for a radar-array, 7-mill for a control-tower... for an average of
20 flying-passengers a day. 20... located fifty-five miles east of Pittsburgh. That's why it's nicknamed
The Airport To Nowhere.
On a visit to the airport, ABC News found it virtually deserted, with an empty restaurant, vacant lounges and empty runways. An air traffic controller was twiddling his thumbs. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/18/AR2009041802128.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/18/AR2009041802128.html)
So this is what you're defending. It doesn't matter what the money's going to be spent on, you're just in-favor of taking it.
What's your
end-game?
This is a distortion of the facts that isn't true.
But I expect no less from someone who refuses to acknowledge evidence.
The ultra-rich should of course pay the most taxes.....they are the richest and most privileged.
I suggest you read reports on tax loopholes that argue the actual rate of taxes of American companies is about 10 percent. Furthermore, Marc Zuckleberg recived a 450 million tax return this year.
Further still, your analysis doesn't count companies who station their actions offshore by creating a PO box in the Cayman Islands and as a result dont pay a dollar in taxes. There are roughly 150 of the fortune 500 who do this. The rest utilize other means made famous by Steve Jobs and Bill gates.
Finally, the capital gains tax, absent from your analysis, prima facie disputes your entire post. If you even know what that is.
But as I said, you have your views and Ill have mine. Just think its cool the majority of the American people support my view on both.
Quote from: simo5656 on July 15, 2014, 07:52:38 AM
Not really good news for the TEA party. Now a majority of Americans and a majority of millionaires believe the minimum wage should be raised and the rich arent taxed enough. In a democratic society the will of the people is supposed to win out.
The US is not a Democracy, but a Constitutional Republic. The founding fathers knew what was wrong with a democracy. It's call mob rule. Want a true democracy - a lynch mob is a true democracy. A couple of hundred for stringing the bastard up, one against - he swings. The Jim Crow south was a democracy - the majority decided the minority had no rights they had to respect. I prefer a Constitutional Republic, where the law - not the mob - rules. Just because something sounds right, and makes you feel good, doesn't mean we should do it. Millionaire business owners want a minimum wage because it tends to keep small firms from coming up as rivals. The guy on the assembly line thinks the minimum wage is a great idea - until he gets replaced by a robot or the firm shuts down. BTW, do you have an answer to the question: "If a three dollar raise in the minimum wage is good, why isn't a thirty dollar raise even better"?
Cut the crap! Don't make me move another one of these to the Financial forum.
Got it? This is off topic in Poli.
Quote from: simo5656 on July 15, 2014, 09:07:22 AM
This is a distortion of the facts that isn't true.
But I expect no less from someone who refuses to acknowledge evidence.
The ultra-rich should of course pay the most taxes.....they are the richest and most privileged.
I suggest you read reports on tax loopholes that argue the actual rate of taxes of American companies is about 10 percent. Furthermore, Marc Zuckleberg recived a 450 million tax return this year.
Further still, your analysis doesn't count companies who station their actions offshore by creating a PO box in the Cayman Islands and as a result dont pay a dollar in taxes. There are roughly 150 of the fortune 500 who do this. The rest utilize other means made famous by Steve Jobs and Bill gates.
Finally, the capital gains tax, absent from your analysis, prima facie disputes your entire post. If you even know what that is.
But as I said, you have your views and Ill have mine. Just think its cool the majority of the American people support my view on both.
You're avoiding my question.
You had a Democrat super-majority. Why are the loopholes still there?
You started the thread. Not me.
Don't start a tax-thread unless you can explain why the Government wastes tax-money.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 15, 2014, 09:17:04 AM
The US is not a Democracy, but a Constitutional Republic. The founding fathers knew what was wrong with a democracy. It's call mob rule. Want a true democracy - a lynch mob is a true democracy. A couple of hundred for stringing the bastard up, one against - he swings. The Jim Crow south was a democracy - the majority decided the minority had no rights they had to respect. I prefer a Constitutional Republic, where the law - not the mob - rules. Just because something sounds right, and makes you feel good, doesn't mean we should do it. Millionaire business owners want a minimum wage because it tends to keep small firms from coming up as rivals. The guy on the assembly line thinks the minimum wage is a great idea - until he gets replaced by a robot or the firm shuts down. BTW, do you have an answer to the question: "If a three dollar raise in the minimum wage is good, why isn't a thirty dollar raise even better"?
The founding fathers designed a system that the rich would dominate: James Madsion said: "The prime role of government is to protect the minority of the opulent against the poor majority" and that people"will sigh for a better distribution of lifes blessing" and we must protect against "this leveling spirit." Alexander Hamilton called people the bewildered herd and john jay went even further as "the people who own the country ought to run it."
In one breath you say they created a constitutional republic while on the next you point out that there was slavery. Hmm. You also fail to mention that women had no rights, landless men couldn't vote and Native Americans were exterminated.
So, the motivations for our form of government had nothing to do with protecting against mob rule. It had to do with protecting the wealthy against the poor, which is why the convention as called to begin with in the aftermath of Shays rebellion. This is what the founding fathers stated specifically, word for word.
You referring to the will of the people as mob rule shows a profound contempt for democracy that you and I am sure your other members share. You may trust in your self pointed bettors and mentors, but I do not.
As we have shown here, even in a constitutional republic minority rights are brutally violated. Nobody is calling for "direct democracy"which you referred to as mob rule. What it seems to me honest people are doing are calling for out political system to function properly. Thus, we do have a responsive electorate. However, they are responsible to power and wealth, not people. Just as they designed it, verbatim, according to their words. Thus, the Insurance industry can write the ACA while a majority of Americans prefer a single payer system. Thus the banks can nearly destroy the world economy, get bailed out, write the policy after, and now have the highest profits in world histroy.
So under your constitutional republic the will of the people has been replaced with the will of the narrow super rich. There the ones who fund the elections, lobbyists, etc, etc,etc. We have direct democracy. Just the voices of the wealthy are the ones being heeded. The minority is fucking the majority.
Interestingly, Aristotle recognized this problem with democracy. That, if there are too many poor people they will legislate to rob the rich. His solution? The opposite of the founding fathers. His solution was to try to keep wealth somewhat equal. Thus by avoiding large disparities voting patterns would be marginalized.
Our America is a simple equation of the rich calling the shots. Study after study after study has shown this. All peer-reviewed. All valid. None have shown the opposite.
Your point about millionaire owners wanting the minimum wage raised is utterly false. Mcdonalds has just feverishly fought against it. Lets us also mention that the vast majority of Americans want the minimum wage raised as well. It is not just millionaires.
A better minimum wage for the poor means they can purchase more, less crime, better security, etc. It is better for the overall economy. Germany, has a high minimum wage and their economy is kicking the shit out of ours in every meaningful measure, like equality.
So lets take your question, why not raise the minimum wage to 30 dollars. First, you already know the answer already. Second, people are just calling for the minimum wage to keep up with inflation. Which right now it is not.
Thirds, lets flip your question around, why dont we lower it to 5 cents an hour?
Your writing is exactly what the wealthy want. Having normal people argue for their interests. You keep advocating protecting their right to rob us and I will keep arguing for the voice of people to be heard far, far more.
Quote from: simo5656 on July 15, 2014, 07:52:38 AM
Not really good news for the TEA party. Now a majority of Americans and a majority of millionaires believe the minimum wage should be raised and the rich arent taxed enough.
In a democratic society the will of the people is supposed to win out.
Why are many TEA policy demands not in line with the American public's views?
"But CNBC's first-ever Millionaire Survey reveals that 51 percent of American millionaires believe inequality is a "major problem" for the U.S., and nearly two-thirds support higher taxes on the wealthy and a higher minimum wage as ways to narrow the wealth gap.
The findings show that—far from being a purely self-interested voting bloc—American millionaires have complicated views when it comes to the wealth gap and opportunity in America. They are unashamed of their own wealth and attribute their success to hard work, smart investing and savings. They also believe that anyone in America can get wealthy if they work hard."
Those millionaires don't have CPAs?
Quote from: taxed on July 15, 2014, 10:56:22 AM
Those millionaires don't have CPAs?
Haha, Ill ad mit that made me chuckle.
I challenged you to a debate, do you accept or not?
Quote from: simo5656 on July 15, 2014, 11:14:31 AM
Haha, Ill ad mit that made me chuckle.
I challenged you to a debate, do you accept or not?
Do those millionaires have CPAs? Yes or no?
Quote from: simo5656 on July 15, 2014, 10:03:31 AM
The founding fathers designed a system that the rich would dominate: James Madsion said: (https://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-tracker/) "The prime role of government is to protect the minority of the opulent against the poor majority" and that people"will sigh for a better distribution of lifes blessing" and we must protect against "this leveling spirit." Alexander Hamilton called people the bewildered herd and john jay went even further as "the people who own the country ought to run it."
In one breath you say they created a constitutional republic while on the next you point out that there was slavery. Hmm. You also fail to mention that women had no rights, landless men couldn't vote and Native Americans were exterminated.
So, the motivations for our form of government had nothing to do with protecting against mob rule. It had to do with protecting the wealthy against the poor, which is why the convention as called to begin with in the aftermath of Shays rebellion. This is what the founding fathers stated specifically, word for word.
You referring to the will of the people as mob rule shows a profound contempt for democracy that you and I am sure your other members share. You may trust in your self pointed bettors and mentors, but I do not.
As we have shown here, even in a constitutional republic minority rights are brutally violated. Nobody is calling for "direct democracy"which you referred to as mob rule. What it seems to me honest people are doing are calling for out political system to function properly. Thus, we do have a responsive electorate. However, they are responsible to power and wealth, not people. Just as they designed it, verbatim, according to their words. Thus, the Insurance industry can write the ACA while a majority of Americans prefer a single payer system. Thus the banks can nearly destroy the world economy, get bailed out, write the policy after, and now have the highest profits in world histroy.
So under your constitutional republic the will of the people has been replaced with the will of the narrow super rich. There the ones who fund the elections, lobbyists, etc, etc,etc. We have direct democracy. Just the voices of the wealthy are the ones being heeded. The minority is fucking the majority.
Interestingly, Aristotle recognized this problem with democracy. That, if there are too many poor people they will legislate to rob the rich. His solution? The opposite of the founding fathers. His solution was to try to keep wealth somewhat equal. Thus by avoiding large disparities voting patterns would be marginalized.
Our America is a simple equation of the rich calling the shots. Study after study after study has shown this. All peer-reviewed. All valid. None have shown the opposite.
Your point about millionaire owners wanting the minimum wage raised is utterly false. Mcdonalds has just feverishly fought against it. Lets us also mention that the vast majority of Americans want the minimum wage raised as well. It is not just millionaires.
A better minimum wage for the poor means they can purchase more, less crime, better security, etc. It is better for the overall economy. Germany, has a high minimum wage and their economy is kicking the shit out of ours in every meaningful measure, like equality.
So lets take your question, why not raise the minimum wage to 30 dollars. First, you already know the answer already. Second, people are just calling for the minimum wage to keep up with inflation. Which right now it is not.
Thirds, lets flip your question around, why dont we lower it to 5 cents an hour?
Your writing is exactly what the wealthy want. Having normal people argue for their interests. You keep advocating protecting their right to rob us and I will keep arguing for the voice of people to be heard far, far more.
I was looking for some information on Shays Rebellion and surprisingly this is the only mention of it on this site. I'll try and dedicate a thread to it myself...
On this topic, though, I'll note that since the year this thread was made in 2014...
"
The effective minimum wage has increased in 29 states and D.C. since January 2014.Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, Washington D.C., and West Virginia
and
48 localities have adopted minimum wages above their state minimum wage.Alameda, California; Albuquerque, New Mexico; Belmont, California; Berkeley, California; Bernalillo County, New Mexico; Birmingham, Alabama; Chicago, Illinois; Cook County, Illinois; Cupertino, California; Denver, Colorado; El Cerrito, California; Emeryville, California; Flagstaff, Arizona; Fremont, California; Las Cruces, New Mexico; Los Altos, California; Los Angeles County, California; Los Angeles, California; Malibu, California; Milpitas, California; Minneapolis, Minnesota; Montgomery County, Maryland; Mountain View, California; Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester Counties, New York; New York City, New York; Novato, California; Oakland, California; Palo Alto, California; Pasadena, California; Petaluma, California; Portland Urban Growth Boundary, Oregon; Prince George's County, Maryland; Redwood City, California; Richmond, California; San Francisco, California; San Jose, California; San Leandro, California; San Mateo, California; Santa Clara, California; Santa Fe City, New Mexico; Santa Fe County, New Mexico; Santa Monica, California; Santa Rosa, California; SeaTac, Washington; Seattle, Washington; Sonoma, California; St. Paul, Minnesota; and Sunnyvale, California"
The minimum wage needs to be abolished....it's destroying people's lives....
Quote from: Owebo on December 15, 2020, 05:15:32 PM
The minimum wage needs to be abolished....it's destroying people's lives....
Yep! There was a time when you were paid your worth, now the left just keeps destroying small businesses, while propping up their crony corporatists.
Quote from: ModelCitizen on December 15, 2020, 05:07:59 PM
I was looking for some information on Shays Rebellion and surprisingly this is the only mention of it on this site. I'll try and dedicate a thread to it myself...
On this topic, though, I'll note that since the year this thread was made in 2014...
"The effective minimum wage has increased in 29 states and D.C. since January 2014.
Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, Washington D.C., and West Virginia
and
48 localities have adopted minimum wages above their state minimum wage.
Alameda, California; Albuquerque, New Mexico; Belmont, California; Berkeley, California; Bernalillo County, New Mexico; Birmingham, Alabama; Chicago, Illinois; Cook County, Illinois; Cupertino, California; Denver, Colorado; El Cerrito, California; Emeryville, California; Flagstaff, Arizona; Fremont, California; Las Cruces, New Mexico; Los Altos, California; Los Angeles County, California; Los Angeles, California; Malibu, California; Milpitas, California; Minneapolis, Minnesota; Montgomery County, Maryland; Mountain View, California; Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester Counties, New York; New York City, New York; Novato, California; Oakland, California; Palo Alto, California; Pasadena, California; Petaluma, California; Portland Urban Growth Boundary, Oregon; Prince George's County, Maryland; Redwood City, California; Richmond, California; San Francisco, California; San Jose, California; San Leandro, California; San Mateo, California; Santa Clara, California; Santa Fe City, New Mexico; Santa Fe County, New Mexico; Santa Monica, California; Santa Rosa, California; SeaTac, Washington; Seattle, Washington; Sonoma, California; St. Paul, Minnesota; and Sunnyvale, California"
Great news, then since the minimum wage has been increased in those areas, the problem is now solved. Thanks for posting. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: Possum on December 16, 2020, 03:54:20 AM
Great news, then since the minimum wage has been increased in those areas, the problem is now solved. Thanks for posting. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, I was just updating the news...good to see that you consider low wages in America a problem, though...
that is what you were referring to in your post, right?
Quote from: ModelCitizen on December 16, 2020, 04:58:37 AM
Well, I was just updating the news...good to see that you consider low wages in America a problem, though...
that is what you were referring to in your post, right?
Why are peoples wages they agree to work for any of your business....
Quote from: ModelCitizen on December 16, 2020, 04:58:37 AM
Well, I was just updating the news..
that is what you were referring to in your post, right?
You are not very good at this. If raising the minimum wage did not solve the problem it was intended to solve, why do you think it will solve anything if it is raised again?
Quote.good to see that you consider low wages in America a problem, though...
The "problem" is not that there are jobs out there that pay less. If you do not like the pay you are getting, get a better job. There are jobs out there that range all over the pay scale. Want a job that pays $15 go get it, want $25, better your skills, better your education and go get it. Want $50, its out there, so are the requirements it will take to get it. But don't expect to get $20 for a job that is only worth $7. Is there a problem with low wages, only if you settle for it.
Again: it is not the low pay; it is the high taxing and fees. Things that happen when Democrats take over an area.
("fees" are things like redlight/speeding cameras which do not save lives but fills someone's pocket).
Quote from: Owebo on December 16, 2020, 05:25:43 AM
Why are peoples wages they agree to work for any of your business....
Because libs don't believe in personal liberty.
https://www.dickmorris.com/budget-office-says-15-minimum-wage-would-cost-1-4-million-jobs-lunch-alert