What do you Americans suggest?

Started by european101, December 18, 2014, 07:50:38 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

TboneAgain

Quote from: AndyJackson on December 18, 2014, 02:51:08 PM
lol, maybe....someday.  But more just the sheer stupidity of corrupting a solid republic of widely disparate cultures, into a homogenized socialist or communist state.  Exactly as they say about europe.  NY and CA and Texas and Tennessee are as unique and distinct as England & Italy & Germany & France.

Can't agree with you there. For one thing, the states have been united and sharing a common political and economic structure for more than 230 years. There are differences, yes, but there are many more similarities. Common language, common currency, common political structure, common culture (in many ways). The EU boasts none of those things, and it shows.

Even within a single state, you can't homogenize or generalize. I live in Ohio, but have little in common with someone living in inner-city Cleveland or Cincinnati. But we do speak the same language, vote on the same day on many of the same issues and candidates, use the same highways, watch the same TV stations, etc. etc.

I think folks in coastal California can connect with people in rural Utah or Alabama a lot better than a Bavarian can empathize with an Estonian or a Cypriot.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

AndyJackson

Quote from: TboneAgain on December 18, 2014, 03:03:19 PM
Can't agree with you there. For one thing, the states have been united and sharing a common political and economic structure for more than 230 years. There are differences, yes, but there are many more similarities. Common language, common currency, common political structure, common culture (in many ways). The EU boasts none of those things, and it shows.

Even within a single state, you can't homogenize or generalize. I live in Ohio, but have little in common with someone living in inner-city Cleveland or Cincinnati. But we do speak the same language, vote on the same day on many of the same issues and candidates, use the same highways, watch the same TV stations, etc. etc.

I think folks in coastal California can connect with people in rural Utah or Alabama a lot better than a Bavarian can empathize with an Estonian or a Cypriot.
I can agree with your very specific contrast of the 2 situations, as of today.  But I think that the founder's concept of a republic was very much built on a competitive and "incubator" expectation of the states.  That they would offer vastly different lifestyles, host competing beliefs like atheism or nearly theocracy, even collective environments vs. pure capitalism, as long as constitutional rights and property remained unfettered.  And see who's ideas were better, based on people voting with their feet.

The 230 years of homogenization have come with a great deal of unconstitutional despotic communist influences, going back at least 100 years, some will say more.  I don't think today's America is all that accurate to the America envisioned in the constitution.  Any more than today's capitalism vs. constitutional capitalism.  Too much corruption, death of 1000 cuts.

TboneAgain

Quote from: AndyJackson on December 18, 2014, 03:14:13 PM
I can agree with your very specific contrast of the 2 situations, as of today.  But I think that the founder's concept of a republic was very much built on a competitive and "incubator" expectation of the states.  That they would offer vastly different lifestyles, host competing beliefs like atheism or nearly theocracy, even collective environments vs. pure capitalism, as long as constitutional rights and property remained unfettered.  And see who's ideas were better, based on people voting with their feet.

The 230 years of homogenization have come with a great deal of unconstitutional despotic communist influences, going back at least 100 years, some will say more.  I don't think today's America is all that accurate to the America envisioned in the constitution.  Any more than today's capitalism vs. constitutional capitalism.  Too much corruption, death of 1000 cuts.

Without getting into specifics, my point was that I think comparing the US to the EU is not a valid comparison. As different as Rhode Island and Nevada are, they're nowhere near as disparate as, say, Greece and France. Or Finland vs. Portugal.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Charliemyboy

The last time I was in England, in addition to the degradation of London, due to what they call Asians, although in reality they are Muslims from the Middle East (No one dares call them by their rightful names,) I was told by a person from the countryside about how he was no longer allowed to grow as many fruits as he used to and as he wished, because the amount is dictated by the EU.  Of course this is just another method of wealth distribution.  England did keep their own currency because they wanted the picture of Queen Elizabeth on the money, but other than that I see little objection to their being taken over by that bunch which does not believe in national borders and those citizens of Britain's former colonies may enter at will. 
The only improvement I saw were these enormous grapes sold at a local street market on Notting Hill from one of the EU countries.  It wasn't a big improvement, though, because they were not as tasty as the smaller ones.

If they allow Turkey membership in the EU, as Turkey wants, God help them.  Islamization will be complete.

Billy's bayonet

get rid of socialism and work on making a decent car, possibly one that runs on natural gas, yeah the fiat and renault are okay but try something different.

Evil operates best when under a disguise

WHEN A CRIME GOES UNPUNISHED THE WORLD IS UNBALANCED

WHEN A WRONG IS UNAVENGED THE HEAVENS LOOK DOWN ON US IN SHAME

IMPEACH BIDEN

AndyJackson

Quote from: TboneAgain on December 18, 2014, 03:20:20 PM
Without getting into specifics, my point was that I think comparing the US to the EU is not a valid comparison. As different as Rhode Island and Nevada are, they're nowhere near as disparate as, say, Greece and France. Or Finland vs. Portugal.
eh...I just think NYC / Detroit / Chicago / LA vs. Mussel Shoals / Myrtle Beach / Baton Rouge / Nashville, is a lot like your euro contrasts.  Maybe it's cities or regions in states that I'm describing.  But I think the states were envisioned in the constitution to be just as different in their totality.

Cryptic Bert

Quote from: european101 on December 18, 2014, 07:50:38 AM
What do you suggest what EU should do to improve our economic situation? We have 26 mio. of unemployed people an weak economic growth.

New president of European commison says we will start a 300 billion infrastructre program. But is this the right way? 

I'd rather see lower taxes for private companies and people. That would attract foreign investments and strengthen economic growth.

Easy.

Get the fuck out of the way.

That's it.

walkstall

A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Cryptic Bert

Quote from: walkstall on December 18, 2014, 09:59:50 PM


I was thinking just move.   :lol:

Even better. Move to Wales. Wait. Bomb London then move to Wales.

Mountainshield

#39
Why are you questioning these Americans for solutions to our problems my European brother?  :laugh:

Just kidding, the Americans have always had the answer. Sweden has already shown the answer, like the Americans have already said the issue is to just abandon socialism or as in Sweden case just degrade it and you will already get economic growth. But if socialism only works because of capitalism then why bother with socialism at all and not start from scratch like solar stated.

There are way too many socialists in Europe, which is what ultimately happended in Sweden and shows us that there is no peaceful solution. Conservatives fix the economy and then the cockroaches votes in the welfare whores to once again loot and pillage through taxation to get da welfare. We can only start by scratch by going through another war, and it will come with the EU or without the EU. There can be no coexistence when the parasites becomes too consuming and starts to kill the host.

european101

Quote from: Solar on December 18, 2014, 12:57:36 PM
As Darth pointed out, trash socialism.

The reason the Eurocentric state of States will fail, is because they failed in creating a Republic of sovereign States where the people retain power over the govt.
This is why America is in such dire straits, the Fed has usurped the power of the individuality of State, as in the Marxist using the Executive Order to rewrite laws making Congress worthless.

Of course none of this would have happened if we'd had actual Representation in the GOP. Our govt has failed us, but we, as voters, have spoken through vote, a fruity to bear come January.

Interesting point solar. I know you probably won't like what I'll wrote but for me are almost all politicians the same. They serve mostly themselves.

european101

Quote from: TboneAgain on December 18, 2014, 02:07:14 PM
Glomming together the EU has to be one of the most spectacularly stupid ideas in human history. Placing the economies of Germany, at one extreme, and the likes of Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus and even the Vatican at the other, on the same currency is simply insane. It is, was, and will always be nothing more than a Leftist wealth redistribution scheme on an international scale, precisely the same thing the UN would do tomorrow worldwide, if they thought we wouldn't burn down their damn building.

Out of curiosity, european101, why is it that we don't want to know where you're from?

T-bone I was kidding. I agree with you that euro currency was a mistake. I still belive in the USE. I'm affraid we don't have a choise.

european101

Quote from: AndyJackson on December 18, 2014, 01:50:50 PM
One problem with meeting our european friend in the middle on this topic, is the near polar-opposite uses of the various terms, in our two different societies.

The euros tend to think that conservative means a more loving, mothering, smothering government.  And liberal means being liberated from such goodness (of course a bad thing).  Just the opposite of the American terms-definitions.

Not sure if they even have a libertarian concept over there, the virtual abandonment of govt.  I think they can only think in terms of communism (the loving govt) or socialism (frighteningly small govt for them).

Andy we're European not euros and you are Americans not amies.

Conservative means small gvt., no welfare, low taxes. Socialist means the opposite. Unfortunately on earth are many more socialists than conservatives becouse people don't want to be responsible for themselves.

european101

Quote from: Charliemyboy on December 18, 2014, 04:05:45 PM
The last time I was in England, in addition to the degradation of London, due to what they call Asians, although in reality they are Muslims from the Middle East (No one dares call them by their rightful names,) I was told by a person from the countryside about how he was no longer allowed to grow as many fruits as he used to and as he wished, because the amount is dictated by the EU.  Of course this is just another method of wealth distribution.  England did keep their own currency because they wanted the picture of Queen Elizabeth on the money, but other than that I see little objection to their being taken over by that bunch which does not believe in national borders and those citizens of Britain's former colonies may enter at will. 
The only improvement I saw were these enormous grapes sold at a local street market on Notting Hill from one of the EU countries.  It wasn't a big improvement, though, because they were not as tasty as the smaller ones.

If they allow Turkey membership in the EU, as Turkey wants, God help them.  Islamization will be complete.

Charliemboy I'm affraid your government supports memebership ot Turkey in the EU  :biggrin:

And I'm affraid they are your allies just like Saudi Arabia. You've always supported autocratic coutries as long as they were on your side. The problem with those muslim countries is that you never know when they'll become your enemy.

european101

#44
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 18, 2014, 04:24:03 PM
get rid of socialism and work on making a decent car, possibly one that runs on natural gas, yeah the fiat and renault are okay but try something different.

Wait! I have Renault! I think we already have cars on natural gas. I agree with you.