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The World War Two Memorial

Started by Blauritter, October 05, 2013, 06:28:41 AM

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Blauritter

The recent shutdown of the W.W. 11 memorial in D.C. reminded me of a major miscalculation in the European theatre  during the invasion of Normandy beaches.

In fact ,I happened to see a similar thread started about miscalculation in general during the war.

I wonder if the vets ,even today are aware of the callous blunders which took place on jun.sixth that led to the needless massacre of thousands of u.s. servicemen.

The main reason was to open a second front and ease the pressure on stalin in the east ,as quickly as possible.

The pressure was on.
The army units were far from prepared to engage the ss divisions guarding the  french coast.

But for the sake of expediency thousands had to die in vain.

How many will die in vain if war comes  with IRAN?

mdgiles

By the time the D-Day landing was made, the Soviets had already commence to kick the crap out of the Nazis. One of the reasons for invading Europe was to have the Soviets stop somewhere short of the Atlantic coast.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

TboneAgain

Giles is correct, as usual. By June 1944, the Germans were learning lots of new ways to love the letter 'R,' as is REVERSE. The Soviets were, with MASSIVE logistic aid from the US, tromping their tails rather soundly.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

steva89

The Normandy invasion also considerably shortened the war by diverting German units westwards, thereby aiding that Soviet advance. And don't forget how much the campaign in North Africa bogged down German units, aiding the Soviets in a crucial period of the conflict.

I would most certainly not suggest the men died in vain. In addition to liberating the French, Belgians and Dutch (plus keeping them and West Germany free from Soviet influence), it was also crucial to overrun the V-1 launch sites in France and the Netherlands.

Blauritter

Quote from: steva89 on October 06, 2013, 07:29:13 PM
The Normandy invasion also considerably shortened the war by diverting German units westwards, thereby aiding that Soviet advance. And don't forget how much the campaign in North Africa bogged down German units, aiding the Soviets in a crucial period of the conflict.

I would most certainly not suggest the men died in vain. In addition to liberating the French, Belgians and Dutch (plus keeping them and West Germany free from Soviet influence), it was also crucial to overrun the V-1 launch sites in France and the Netherlands.

The war was finished for the Wehrmacht before Normandy. Can it justify sending inexperienced servicemen to an early grave?
I think you're reading history in reverse order. The afrika campaign was deemed hopeless before barbarossa!

kopema

Quote from: steva89 on October 06, 2013, 07:29:13 PM
I would most certainly not suggest the men died in vain. In addition to liberating the French, Belgians and Dutch (plus keeping them and West Germany free from Soviet influence), it was also crucial to overrun the V-1 launch sites in France and the Netherlands.

There was most definitely nothing vain about freeing half of Europe from totalitarianism.  If Stalin had continued his march to the sea, the Soviet Empire might still be around today.
''It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.''

- Justice Robert H. Jackson

Blauritter

Quote from: kopema on October 07, 2013, 07:34:57 AM
There was most definitely nothing vain about freeing half of Europe from totalitarianism.  If Stalin had continued his march to the sea, the Soviet Empire might still be around today.
why stop with only freeing half of europe?

Why  was nothing done about stalin's empire much earlier?

kopema

Quote from: Blauritter on October 07, 2013, 08:03:19 AM
Quote from: Blauritter on October 07, 2013, 07:17:32 AM
The war was finished for the Wehrmacht before Normandy. Can it justify sending inexperienced servicemen to an early grave?
I think you're reading history in reverse order. The afrika campaign was deemed hopeless before barbarossa!
why stop with only freeing half of europe?

Why  was nothing done about stalin's empire much earlier?

When you get your time machine, you can do whichever you want.  But you can't do both.
''It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.''

- Justice Robert H. Jackson

Blauritter

but can you read and understand at the same time, can you do both?

mdgiles

Quote from: Blauritter on October 07, 2013, 08:03:19 AM
why stop with only freeing half of europe?

Why  was nothing done about stalin's empire much earlier?
Are you suggesting the US should have turned on our ally at the end of WW2. Isn't that what Hitler did in 1941? Didn't turn out well for him. If Hitler had the sense that GOD gave a bag of hammers, he wouldn't have done that - without at least first inquiring of the Japanese what they would need to fight the Russians. Besides, the US was only in Europe because Hitler had declared war on us. I realize that you believe we should have behave like Europeans, constantly trying to conquer our neighbors. But the thing is - unless you happen to be a Native American - the US doesn't normally engage in wars of conquest. Even in the Mexican War, we paid them for the territory, which was mostly empty anyway.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Blauritter

Quote from: mdgiles on October 08, 2013, 12:40:59 AM
Are you suggesting the US should have turned on our ally at the end of WW2. Isn't that what Hitler did in 1941? Didn't turn out well for him. If Hitler had the sense that GOD gave a bag of hammers, he wouldn't have done that - without at least first inquiring of the Japanese what they would need to fight the Russians. Besides, the US was only in Europe because Hitler had declared war on us. I realize that you believe we should have behave like Europeans, constantly trying to conquer our neighbors. But the thing is - unless you happen to be a Native American - the US doesn't normally engage in wars of conquest. Even in the Mexican War, we paid them for the territory, which was mostly empty anyway.

you said a lot of nothing!!

mdgiles

Quote from: Blauritter on October 08, 2013, 08:04:46 AM
you said a lot of nothing!!
I notice you had no answers for that "nothing".
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

kopema

October 09, 2013, 02:46:10 AM #12 Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 02:50:41 AM by kopema
Quote from: mdgiles on October 08, 2013, 12:40:59 AM
QuoteThe war was finished for the Wehrmacht before Normandy. Can it justify sending inexperienced servicemen to an early grave?

why stop with only freeing half of europe?  Why  was nothing done about stalin's empire much earlier?
Are you suggesting the US should have turned on our ally at the end of WW2.

No, of course not.  He's saying that America should have let either the Nazis or the Soviets conquer all of Eurasia and get nuclear weapons -- and THEN we should invaded and retaken the two continents.

You're making the classic mistake of confusing mere airheadedness with industrial grade, pathologically intentional stupidity.  That's not just a matter of degree; those are really two completely different things.
''It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.''

- Justice Robert H. Jackson

walkstall

A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."