Started by Solar, July 04, 2012, 03:36:06 AM
Quote from: mdgiles on July 05, 2012, 12:51:38 AMI'm not insulted by a discussion of facts. I've already agreed with you, that indeed you are right, there were white slaves in the Americas, just as there were Native American slaves. What I am arguing with you about is - what seems to me - an attempt to make that slavery the equivalent of black slavery. And it simply wasn't. And of course I ask why the attempt? Just as I ask why make such an issue out of the tiny number of black slave owners, and their comparatively minuscule number of slaves?
Quote from: Solar on July 05, 2012, 03:07:37 AMI honestly don't care about black slave owners or how many slaves were owned by whom, the fact is, we all have a history, whether one is more recent is completely irrelevant.You seem focused on a moot point, that point being, it is history, in other words, it affects none of us.Why is this such an issue for you?And here's something else to chew on. I don't give a damn!What I care about most, is that my ancestors had the intestinal fortitude to move forward, so that I could live a normal life and not think like a victim.Oh sure, I could do an ancestry search to find all the victims, then mourn their plight as if it were my own, but that would be doing them a disservice, in that they threw off the bonds, yet I want them to wear them again, so I can play victim.Nope! I don't play that shit.Move on Giles, it's not a contest as to whether one race of people were treated worse than another, were all people!
Quote from: mdgiles on July 04, 2012, 09:02:30 PMSame tired crap. People come online, downplay the historical facts and then get mad when they're called on them. Irish were considered "second class citizens" at the same time that blacks were considered human cattle. Italians were considered "second class citizens" at the same time as blacks were living under Jim Crow. IN THIS COUNTRY. You see that's the point. answering the historical fact of black history in this country's past, by telling me how badly the Babylonians treated the Israelites, or the Romans treated the Gauls, is kind of a dodge. And what makes me so fucking special is that it happened in this country. I'm a descendent of the people who were the f**king victims of this country's history. And lest you forget, this thread is about this country's history. Strange how when ever the subject arises, some people prefer to minimize it, or rush past it, or start lectures on how it's no worse than other places. And no I wasn't a slave. Did you fight in the Civil War to free the slaves? Or were you on the side that wanted to keep them in chains.
Quote from: kramarat on July 05, 2012, 08:01:00 AMI'm going to tell you what pisses me off. I'm a white person, that had nothing to do with slavery, nor did any of my ancestors. Almost daily, I hear a bunch race baiting bullshit coming out of Obama, Holder saying the fast and furious investigation is based on white racism, all of that Jeremiah Wright, loud mouth, racist trash a few years ago........................I'm sick of it.
QuoteIf black people want to hold a grudge against the country, fine. The constant attacks on white people in general, are getting really old. I can't understand why so many black people, (that were never slaves), want to cling to slavery, as the single most important factor of their existence.
QuoteWhat's up with this? What if Romney pulled something like this, with whites? As far as I'm concerned, we're all Americans.President Obama Announces the 2012 Launch of African Americans for Obama
Quote from: mdgiles on July 05, 2012, 09:02:28 AMThen why does it bother you? If your hands are clean and you harbor absolutely no guilt. The discussing it should be little more than an academic exercise.And I hold a "grudge" because I recall that it happened, and actually want to discuss it upon occasion? Would you feel better about the issue if I - or all blacks - pretended it never happened?Never said we all weren't. Is discussing that part of history a sign of "disloyalty"? Why is it okay for Sen. Webb to go on Smithsonian Channel, and talk about the Scots-Irish, their history, beliefs, and how that has effected them down to the present day. But if I want to discuss the history of blacks, it's a forbidden subject.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 05, 2012, 05:20:45 AMLet me give you a Holocaust analogy - and I saying up front that this isn't an exact analogy - whatever slavery was, or wasn't, it definitely wasn't industrialized mass murder. Let's say you are the descendant of Holocaust survivors and you're discussing it. And someone interjects that they also murdered Gypsies. What effect does that have on the overall horror of the Holocaust for Jews. How about if the bring up the fact that some Jews hid in the Wehrmacht and even the SS, the very people who were murdering the Jews. does that decrease it's significance? Holocaust deniers often use the talking point:" well the numbers are wrong". "They didn't kill six million Jews, only 4 million. And if they got that wrong how can we even be sure it ever happened". The implication being that the difference between six million and four million somehow negates the event. And when you first started the conversation, wouldn't you wonder why the subject of the Gypsies was even brought up? And what would be your mindset, if you received a "so, get over it", Stalin killed the Ukrainians and the Ottomans murdered the Armenians?
QuoteChris Rock ✔@chrisrockHappy white peoples independence day the slaves weren't free but I'm sure they enjoyed fireworks
Quote from: Solar on July 05, 2012, 09:40:48 AMI think it's how the issue is broached and presented.For example:
Quote from: Solar on July 05, 2012, 09:22:44 AMThere is simply no comparison, so your analogy falls flat on it's face.It's akin to fags linking their plight to slavery.Weak doesn't even begin to cover it.But nice try.
QuoteI think it's how the issue is broached and presented.For example:
QuoteChris Rock ✔ @chrisrock Happy white peoples independence day the slaves weren't free but I'm sure they enjoyed fireworks
Quote from: kramarat on July 05, 2012, 09:12:46 PMThe bitterness sounds a little odd, coming from a multimillionaire.
QuoteAlthough, it's the divisive comments that come straight out of Washington, that really bother me. As president, Obama is supposed to be representing all of us.........................He has yet to show that he has anything but disdain for over half the country.
QuoteI also think that the practice of telling our young black people, (from birth), that they are victims of slavery, does both them, and our country, a great disservice.
QuoteEveryone agrees that slavery in the US was a horrible thing..........................and yes, thousands of white people gave their lives, specifically fighting the principle of enslaving other human beings. It's just not included in our history, because it doesn't fit the, "white people are bad" template.
QuoteAs horrible as slavery was, generations of black people have been born as free US citizens as a result of it. Maybe not such a bad thing, when considering the conditions that many black people live under in Africa...................including modern day slavery and genocide.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 06, 2012, 12:39:06 AMInteresting - and enlightening. Nothing on why the analogy has faults, just dismiss it out of hand.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 06, 2012, 12:44:42 AMAnd the fact that he's pretty much historically correct, isn't the issue? But the fact that he said it on the Fourth and ruined your day is?
Quote from: Solar on July 06, 2012, 01:59:10 AMMass murder, you call that a comparison?
Quote from: Solar on July 06, 2012, 02:00:08 AMYour racism is coming through loud and clear.