Started by milos, November 26, 2013, 02:39:23 AM
Quote from: Solar on May 24, 2018, 05:30:33 AMIf you do a search for "Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia" we're the first link that pops up.
Quote from: milos on May 24, 2018, 06:53:00 PMProbably the title of the topic was spot on. But I am not sure if I understand your stats, 51,4% of what? And 4,662 unique visitors?I am looking at the first response to this topic: "Obviously religious bigotry is evil.", and I can't believe my eyes. That is why I am insisting on telling about the historical contexts and explanations. One should begin at least from 1054, when the Church was divided into Eastern and Western directly over the Balkans, and continue with the Muslim Turk arrival in the 14th century. Then count all the rapes, body mutilations, beheadings, people impaled, slaves taken, for five centuries. But still, Muslims in Yugoslavia were not so strict, they regularly drank alcohol, and probably ate pork at times, they dressed like all Europeans, etc, and Yugoslavia was one of the most secular countries in the world. That tells the historical context is the most important, and those Muslims in Bosnia and Albania didn't just suddenly fell from the sky, or just freely decided to convert to Islam because of religious freedom. It is more complicated than that.Here is a video from a Sky News reporter.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lSRFC-jVPwShaul Shay, an officer in the military intelligence of the Israeli Defense Forces and expert on international and fundamentalist Islamic terrorism, has published the new book "Islamic Terror and the Balkans". In that book he analyzes the growth of radical Islam in the Balkans. He shows how the war in Bosnia and the war in Kosovo provided the historical opportunity for radical Islam to penetrate the Balkans."It was an ongoing process. During the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina Islamic mujahideens from different parts of the world came to support the local Muslims. Later on when the war was over they formed an [Islamic terrorist] infrastructure that exists even today," said Shaul Shay in his interview to Monday's Encounter on January 6. In it, I show the process and the development of this phenomenon during two wars, first in Bosnia and Herzegovina and later on in Kosovo," continued Shay.Intelligence sources reveal that there have been for more than a decade, three main radical Islamist mujahideen operating in Bosnia: The Iranian mujahideein, consisting entirely of Iranian nationals, the Arab mujahideen, consisting mainly of volunteers from Saudi Arabia, from Palestine, Jordan and Yemen and the North African mujahideen, mainly involving Egyptians, Algerians and Moroccans. Some of them have been engaged in some of the more serious terrorist actions (including the September 11, 2001, attacks on the US). And so, when Bosnian Muslims murder more than 3,500 Serb civilians in the villages around the city of Srebrenica, it is nowhere heard. But when Serb criminals shoot 484 Bosnian Muslim POWs - it is called a genocide worldwide. I have heard from a Serb who was then working for the French intelligence and was in Bosnia at the time wearing a French uniform, that there were only 484 Muslims shot in Srebrenica. Muslims have then brought thousands of Muslim corpses from all over Bosnia into Srebrenica, to claim there were around 9,000 Muslims shot at that city. It is a very dangerous agenda to mark Srebrenica a spot of the Muslim suffering from the Christian hand. At least the French intelligence should know about this, and I call on them to reveal the truth about Srebrenica.
Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 30, 2013, 07:02:01 AMThe switheroo here is that you are the one with posts that largely compose of attempts to discredit the poster or otherwise deflect actually defending your position, not the "craziest extremist nutjob moron" (apparently me). You use "debates" to show off your ability to bullshit your way through actually presenting a logical, factual argument with third person psycho-analysis, ad hominems and just anything other than actually answering the damn question:Do you honestly think islamic fundamentalists have more in common with western liberals than western christian fundamenalists?
Quote from: Limey on February 13, 2020, 09:41:30 AMI was in Bosnia with UN forces between 1991 and 1996 and again on the NATO mission in 2003.Dreadful crimes were committed by Catholic Croats against Orthodox Serbs and Muslim Bosniaks; by Muslim Bosniaks against Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs; and by Orthodox Serbs against Catholic Croats and Muslim Bosniaks.The preponderance of brutality was by Serbs.The aggression and ethnic cleansing was mostly by Serbs.Any attempt to paint Serbs as the victims is purely propaganda. The behaviour of Serbia and the Serb minority in Bosnia was bestial, and they instigated the bestiality which other ethnic groups soon sank in to.The former Jugoslavia is still reeling from the disasters of the 90s.
Quote from: Limey on February 13, 2020, 06:16:35 PMThe Serbs couldn't have taken much more ground. Early on, before UN troops arrived, they demonstrated fairly poor fighting skills against determined defence. The terrain is very difficult, too, meaning lightly armed defenders, mines, and well placed mortars can force a stand off.When YN troops arrived we were placed to prevent further large scale changes of territory. In effect, any attack on, say, a Croat village by Bosniaks or a Bosniak village by Serbs would need to go through a British Company first, or a French tank troop. Also, besieged areas were supplied with food and medicine by UN convoys escorted by heavily armed soldiers. I was on these convoys-a line of trucks with Warrior (similar to your Bradley IFV) at both ends, and Saxon troop carriers in the convoy too. We explained at the checkpoint outside the besieged area that we were coming through and any attempt to stop us would be met with force. British, French, Canadian, ANZAC troops were more effective UN soldiers than some, and some nations' UN contingents were very obviously biased-Orthodox towards Serbs, Catholics towards Croats, Muslims towards Bosniaks - in ways that the British, French, Canadians and ANZACS were not.Generally, though, the idea that Serbian forces were restrained by their own restraint is not true. They were restrained by defending forces and the UN.
Quote from: Limey on February 13, 2020, 10:47:54 PMIs the evidence of my own eyes acceptable?
Quote from: Limey on February 14, 2020, 07:27:05 AMYes.And there are no circumstances at all which justify the deliberate killing of unarmed civilians by soldiers using small arms face to face. Nor rape, nor torture. The extraordinarily convoluted history of the region is a historical context, not a get out for criminals. The Irish terrorists use that logic, too:"It's ok to murder civilians because history."Wrong.
Quote from: Limey on February 14, 2020, 10:49:20 AMQuite.However, those who commit such barbarism can't use earlier events as a defence.Prosecutor: tell us, Mr. Solar, why you and your associates tied up 14 young couples at gunpoint, raped the women in front of their boyfriends and husbands, castrated the men, then cut the breasts and lips off the women before shooting all of them?Solar: well, see, they were Bosniaks and if you go back a few generations, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Ottomans before them bore down heavily upon my Serbian forebears.Prosecutor: I'm not following this-had any of the young people you raped, tortured, mutilated and murdered ever harmed you?Solar: no, Sir, until I captured these unarmed people at gunpoint I had never met them.P: so, why are you seeking to defend your actions by referring to historical events?S: I was really angry. P: err.......See? It doesn't work.Incidentally, the description of the crime is straight from a scene I witnessed maybe 12 - 18 hours after it happened. I still have screaming nightmares about it sometimes, over 25 years later.By the by, l was looking at some of your posts.Typos are one thing, but you need to work on your spelling. Did you go to school much?I despise Islam, more even than i despise most other religions.The attempt to use Jugoslavia's tragedy as malignant anti-Muslim and pro-nationalist propaganda is contemptible.No respectable site would let posting like the earlier deposits on this thread go unchallenged.
Quote from: Limey on February 14, 2020, 07:27:05 AMAnd there are no circumstances at all which justify the deliberate killing of unarmed civilians by soldiers using small arms face to face. Nor rape, nor torture.The extraordinarily convoluted history of the region is a historical context, not a get out for criminals.
Quote from: Limey on February 14, 2020, 10:49:20 AMHowever, those who commit such barbarism can't use earlier events as a defence.why you and your associates tied up 14 young couples at gunpoint, raped the women in front of their boyfriends and husbands, castrated the men, then cut the breasts and lips off the women before shooting all of them?The attempt to use Jugoslavia's tragedy as malignant anti-Muslim and pro-nationalist propaganda is contemptible.No respectable site would let posting like the earlier deposits on this thread go unchallenged.
Quote from: Limey on February 15, 2020, 12:45:46 AMAnd yet, further up thread, we saw perfectly true commentary upon the Bosniak attitude towards Islam.It was rather like the British attitude towards Christianity. Yes, there's an Imam, and weddings etc. follow tradition and custom, but these people, like urban Turks, drink beer (I can't remember the brand name but it wasn't bad at all) and Raki/Slivovitz. The war changed things, but slowly. Late '94 i think it was, so.e Mujahedeen arrived to support their Muslim brothers near Kiseljak. We were briefed on this. They left 6 weeks later, having been deeply disappointed by the lack of religious fervour in the Bosniak population. Caused quite a chuckle at the time in BRITBATT. I know you and so many others enjoy the hyster propaganda project in which all Muslims are Muscum and terrorists, and want to enslave or kill us.It's simply not true. There are profound problems with Islam and with many, many of the people who are Muslim. Not least the disturbing fact that they honestly believe, many of them, all the tripe about Allah and the prophets..... Be more precise in what you say, and you won't alienate people like me, who value accuracy and fairness.