ISIS uncovers Saddam's WMD's..IN IRAQ!!

Started by Bowhntr, August 26, 2014, 07:26:08 AM

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taxed

Quote from: Solar on August 27, 2014, 02:33:07 PM
Yeah, I wonder if Slim would be willing to move them in street clothes? :rolleyes: :lol:

He might try and drink them.
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Solar

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Aristophanes

Quote from: daidalos on August 26, 2014, 07:30:29 PM
Not to mention carrying out acts of war against the United States and it's allies in the region.

But hey we're supposed to overlook that, because the libs don't like Bush.  :wink:

As far as I am aware US operations were working fairly closely with all nations in the region. During the Iraq invasion of Iran, for instance, we were selling weapons to both sides. Before Iraq initially invaded Kuwait, Baghdad contacted us to declare their intentions, and while we could have vehemently forbid them which *might* have prevented the whole situation, instead we gave no response. Perhaps we did not believe that Iraq would change its course, and perhaps we were correct in this assumption. Either way instead of making a response we instead prepared for a War and successfully got the UN on board with the resulting 'police action'. And it is certainly interesting that we haven't made a formal declaration of war since World War 2. Perhaps its because of nuclear arms, but formal declarations of war will go a long way to re-establish ourselves as the moral center of the globe.

supsalemgr

Quote from: Aristophanes on August 27, 2014, 04:34:27 PM
As far as I am aware US operations were working fairly closely with all nations in the region. During the Iraq invasion of Iran, for instance, we were selling weapons to both sides. Before Iraq initially invaded Kuwait, Baghdad contacted us to declare their intentions, and while we could have vehemently forbid them which *might* have prevented the whole situation, instead we gave no response. Perhaps we did not believe that Iraq would change its course, and perhaps we were correct in this assumption. Either way instead of making a response we instead prepared for a War and successfully got the UN on board with the resulting 'police action'. And it is certainly interesting that we haven't made a formal declaration of war since World War 2. Perhaps its because of nuclear arms, but formal declarations of war will go a long way to re-establish ourselves as the moral center of the globe.

What did you just say?
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Aristophanes

Quote from: supsalemgr on August 27, 2014, 05:13:44 PM
What did you just say?

I said that US involvement has been a near constant in the middle east, but unfortunately it has been often duplicitous and soft handed.

For instance, the CIA was somewhat successful in the Shah regaining power in Iran just before the revolution to put an even more extreme Iranian Republic into power. And during the war between Iran and Iraq we played both sides, selling weapons to both parties.

Alaska Slim

Quote from: taxed on August 27, 2014, 01:38:24 PM
They weren't expired when the US went in. 
Yes they were, the munitions I bring mention to were made in the 80s, and the latest any of the munitions were made, according to the Iraq Survey Group, was '91.

The ideal lifespan again for sarin and VX was 3-5 years, by 2003 12 years had passed.

From what we captured, even 3-5 wasn't realistic, the purity was terrible, and containment was a mess. Our inspectors put their useful shelf life at 3-4 weeks. By our invasion, they had long since been made useless, no more dangerous than household poisons.

No, I wouldn't want to hold it on me, but nor would I want to hold a leaking bottle of insecticide or acid. Proportion, that's the key here. What is the danger relative to? The inspector I quoted, tell us exactly what.
"Fact -- the only thing more piping hot than Mom's fresh apple pie, is the sting of my anti-lowlife-terrorist mag-popper. Want a slice?!?"

supsalemgr

Quote from: Aristophanes on August 27, 2014, 08:30:37 PM
I said that US involvement has been a near constant in the middle east, but unfortunately it has been often duplicitous and soft handed.

For instance, the CIA was somewhat successful in the Shah regaining power in Iran just before the revolution to put an even more extreme Iranian Republic into power. And during the war between Iran and Iraq we played both sides, selling weapons to both parties.

I am a firm believer in the old saying that, "The best indicator of the future is the past". Using that philosophy I am convinced there is no way the ME will become westernized. They don't want to be and the Muslim cult beliefs are too ingrained. That being said we should let them have it. Our interest is about oil at market prices and we have options here. Let them go at it.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

suzziY

Quote from: AmericanMom on August 26, 2014, 09:16:15 PM
We know Saddam had WMD's. we all watched the convoys moving them to the Syrian border. We all know Saddam funded terrorist activity.

We all know what is happening now, the disconnect, the disinterest is the same thing that was done under the Clinton admin and even the beginning of the Bush admin. They didn't take Al-Qaeda seriously enough until it was to late and then even after 9/11 they wouldn't allow the American people to be reminded visually of the horrors of that day and what our disinterest can cost us. Our borders are wide open, god only knows what's already here.

Its going to happen again, but I fear this time will be much worse.

I agree with you.  Obama is in over his head and always has been -- OR -- he has been successful in fulfilling his agenda to destroy this country.  He's been arming ISIS -- things went wrong in Benghazi.  He should have taken action in Iran and Syria long ago and he should have never removed troops in Iraq when he did.  He was warned what would happen if he withdrew troops to soon.  His Joint Chiefs of Staff have even flip-flopped on their assessment of ISIS.  Meanwhile Congress is divided on what to do and sit and play the blame game as usual and keep in mind this president acts without Congress anyways.  I find it very difficult to believe that those sitting in Congress aren't making a move for political reasons.  IMO they aren't making a move because neither party trusts this president and realize that he has gotten us into a very grim situation and  has pretty much made them ineffective.

Yes our borders are open.  I feel Obama has already strategically placed the "enemy" within this country and who truly know what "deals" he has made with the U.N.  I believe the rumor that U.N. troops are already stationed throughout this country ready to act upon his command. 
"I believe in the United States of America as a government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed..."I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution..."

taxed

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 27, 2014, 09:55:12 PM
Yes they were, the munitions I bring mention to were made in the 80s, and the latest any of the munitions were made, according to the Iraq Survey Group, was '91.

The ideal lifespan again for sarin and VX was 3-5 years, by 2003 12 years had passed.

From what we captured, even 3-5 wasn't realistic, the purity was terrible, and containment was a mess. Our inspectors put their useful shelf life at 3-4 weeks. By our invasion, they had long since been made useless, no more dangerous than household poisons.

No, I wouldn't want to hold it on me, but nor would I want to hold a leaking bottle of insecticide or acid. Proportion, that's the key here. What is the danger relative to? The inspector I quoted, tell us exactly what.

Why would they have a supply of unusable gas?
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quiller

Quote from: taxed on August 28, 2014, 11:25:48 AM
Why would they have a supply of unusable gas?

To trot out for P.R. purposes once someone figures out where the real stuff went to?

redbeard

QuoteThe group's leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the self-described leader of all Muslims, launched the al-Qaida offshoot while sitting in the Camp Bucca detention center a decade ago, handpicking his top officers from among the prisoners he befriended, the Times said.


Baghdadi chose men with military background, mostly former officers with years of fighting experience serving in Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's once highly-regarded army, including Fadel al-Hayali, an ex-lieutenant colonel, and Adnan al-Sweidawi, a former lieutenant colonel who heads ISIS's military council, the Times said.

Combining military know-how with well-planned terror tactics learned from years of fighting experience against American forces, ISIS has had a series of battlefield successes in eastern Syria and northern Iraq. It is, in effect, "a hybrid of terrorists and army," the newspaper said.

"These guys know the terrorism business inside and out, and they are the ones who survived aggressive counterterrorism campaigns during the surge," a U.S. intelligence official, referring to the increase in American troops in Iraq in 2007, told the Times. "They didn't survive by being incompetent." The official wasn't identified by the newspaper.

Although the Sunni militants had launched their terror campaign in Syria, they eventually overran swaths of land in Iraq, ruled by Shiite Muslims who were unwilling to share power with the Sunnis, and in June captured Mosul, Iraq's second largest city.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://wwww.Newsmax.com/Newsfront/ISIS-military-tactics-resources/2014/08/28/id/591385/#ixzz3BjShv4Zx
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Is there a chance that some of these Ex- Saddam military leaders knew where some of the less degraded WMD's where and their main objective in going into Iraq was to retrieve them?
I am by no means an expert on chemical weapons but isn't it true that some are 2 part and don't degrade until they are mixed? :huh: :huh:

Solar

Quote from: redbeard on August 28, 2014, 04:31:24 PM
Is there a chance that some of these Ex- Saddam military leaders knew where some of the less degraded WMD's where and their main objective in going into Iraq was to retrieve them?
I am by no means an expert on chemical weapons but isn't it true that some are 2 part and don't degrade until they are mixed? :huh: :huh:
Yes, and some don't mix till near impact.
It's not known whether or not Saddam had the capabilities, but based on what they did have, it's safe to assume he had the abilities to produce them.
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Billy's bayonet

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 27, 2014, 12:29:54 AM
^why go so far? I could approximate the current toxicity with household rat poison and industrial cleaners.  :tounge:

Precisely....however you are forgetting something..... THE DELIVERY SYSTEM.....its a proven fact that Saddam had forbidden long range missles capable of carrying chemical payloads which were found concealed here and there in Iraq. It is real easy to make chlorine gas....I can do it after a trip to the local food lion....however I must have a way of DELIVERING it if I want to kill a lot of people.

Its like a convicted felon possessing a sawed off shotgun but not having any shells (that could be found)

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Alaska Slim

Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2014, 04:57:57 PM
Yes, and some don't mix till near impact.
It doesn't matter, even unmixed the materials themselves corrode.

The Iraq Survey Group stated in their report that they found no trace of any functioning weapons in Iraq, or any trace of any having been built since the '91 bombing of Iraq's sole chemical plant.

What they did find, was indications the Iraqis intended to start their programs up again if the sanctions were ever rescinded.
"Fact -- the only thing more piping hot than Mom's fresh apple pie, is the sting of my anti-lowlife-terrorist mag-popper. Want a slice?!?"

Cryptic Bert

#44
Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 28, 2014, 08:41:47 PM
It doesn't matter, even unmixed the materials themselves corrode.

The Iraq Survey Group stated in their report that they found no trace of any functioning weapons in Iraq, or any trace of any having been built since the '91 bombing of Iraq's sole chemical plant.

What they did find, was indications the Iraqis intended to start their programs up again if the sanctions were ever rescinded.

Now why didn't Saddam say that?