Meme discussion thread....

[ZenMode]

Can't play that game. One of my main criticisms of your posts is you like to post what you guess as facts. If you know the answer, give it. What I saw, happened. You can not dispute it, well you can, but not truthfully. We see two totally different actions taking place on Jan. 6th, one very calm, one not so. We saw the police taking violent actions while just a short distance away everything was calm.  I would like to see answers for how that could happen, not play guessing games.

I don't know the answer.  I suspect in both cases, the number of cops neglecting their duties was a small percentage.  In the J6 video, I think I saw one cop taking selfies, two letting people in and 2-3 giving up their post to let people through a barrier.  I'd guess that the percentage of cops who neglected their duties in all Floyd riots was also a very small #. Do you disagree?

[Possum]

I don't know the answer.  I suspect in both cases, the number of cops neglecting their duties was a small percentage.

I have never said the police in the Floyd riots were neglecting their duties. Nor have I said the police at the capitol were neglecting their duties. Those are your words not mine. I would like to see you prove, to back up what you are saying that the police neglected their duties.

In the J6 video, I think I saw one cop taking selfies, two letting people in and 2-3 giving up their post to let people through a barrier.

Great, I saw more. All that proves is we both know it happened.

I'd guess that the percentage of cops who neglected their duties in all Floyd riots was also a very small #. Do you disagree?

Again, you are saying they neglected their duties. That is a damn lie. They were told to stand down. I have not seen any evidence to prove otherwise. If you have, post it. If not, you own all those police an apology.


 

[ZenMode]

I have never said the police in the Floyd riots were neglecting their duties. Nor have I said the police at the capitol were neglecting their duties. Those are your words not mine. I would like to see you prove, to back up what you are saying that the police neglected their duties.

Great, I saw more. All that proves is we both know it happened.

Again, you are saying they neglected their duties. That is a damn lie. They were told to stand down. I have not seen any evidence to prove otherwise. If you have, post it. If not, you own all those police an apology.


 

The mayor, governor, etc, I assume, told them to stand down.  I don't think police would, as a group,  just decide to let looters loot, vandals vandalize, etc

In the case of Capitol police, it seems very unlikely that you would have the majority of police actively fighting to keep rioters from entering the building and only a small number being told to stand down, right? 

There's also the fact that several police were suspended for their actions on J6.

https://www.insider.com/6-capitol-police-officers-suspended-29-investigated-insurrection-2021-2

So, do you agree that only a small amount of police in the Floyd riots and a small amount of police in the J6 riots were not doing what they should be doing?

[Possum]

The mayor, governor, etc, I assume, told them to stand down. I don't think police would, as a group,  just decide to let looters loot, vandals vandalize, etc

Then I have to ask, why did you call them negligent?

In the case of Capitol police, it seems very unlikely that you would have the majority of police actively fighting to keep rioters from entering the building and only a small number being told to stand down, right? 

I have not seen any evidence that the capitol police were told to stand down. Quite the opposite, I saw them opening doors, etc. I did not see them in a situation where any order to stand down would have been warranted, there was no riot.

There's also the fact that several police were suspended for their actions on J6.

And what actions would those be?

https://www.insider.com/6-capitol-police-officers-suspended-29-investigated-insurrection-2021-2

So, do you agree that only a small amount of police in the Floyd riots and a small amount of police in the J6 riots were not doing what they should be doing?

I have never said any of the police were not doing their job, were not doing what they were told. I would like to see full investigations into Babbitt's murder, and into the woman, (sorry I can not remember her name), who was severely beaten. Zen, it is really hard to have a conversation with someone who continues to lie about what I said. You need to stop it. Your lying about what I say is not helping your argument, it is only showing how weak you and your argument are.

[ZenMode]

Then I have to ask, why did you call them negligent?

I have not seen any evidence that the capitol police were told to stand down. Quite the opposite, I saw them opening doors, etc. I did not see them in a situation where any order to stand down would have been warranted, there was no riot.
And what actions would those be?

I have never said any of the police were not doing their job, were not doing what they were told. I would like to see full investigations into Babbitt's murder, and into the woman, (sorry I can not remember her name), who was severely beaten. Zen, it is really hard to have a conversation with someone who continues to lie about what I said. You need to stop it. Your lying about what I say is not helping your argument, it is only showing how weak you and your argument are.

okay, I am not giving up on this yet. I am convinced that we can come to an agreement, or something close to an agreement for the sake of this discussion, regarding the police during the Floyd riots and the police during the J6 riots.

I don't know if I used the word negligent, but I was saying that some police, in both situations, we're not doing what police are supposed to do.

In the case of the Floyd riots, police should be trying to stop and arrest looters. Please should be trying to stop and arrest vandals. Police should be trying to control the crowds.


In the case of January 6th, the police should be trying to hold the barricades in place, hold the doors shut and, in general, doing all that they can to prevent riders from getting past the fences, getting into the capital and getting access to people inside. In both situations, there were some number of police who were not performing standard police duties.

Do you agree with what I said above?

[Possum]

okay, I am not giving up on this yet. I am convinced that we can come to an agreement, or something close to an agreement for the sake of this discussion, regarding the police during the Floyd riots and the police during the J6 riots.

I don't know if I used the word negligent,

1) " the number of cops neglecting their duties"
2) "percentage of cops who neglected their duties)
3) " otherwise neglecting their duties)

but I was saying that some police, in both situations, we're not doing what police are supposed to do.

In the case of the Floyd riots, police should be trying to stop and arrest looters. Please should be trying to stop and arrest vandals. Police should be trying to control the crowds.

First off, you are looking at two completely different situations. The Floyd riots were full scale. The police were way understaffed, way out numbered, and the crowd was out of control. Buildings were being looted, buildings, cars, equipment was being burned. Windows being destroyed.  There was no one to call for help. To step into that crowd and try to subdue it could only have been accomplished by gunfire. They were not going to stop the destruction, the liberals, the LSM, the town's leadership have the crowd whipped into a frenzy.  It was allowed, encouraged to get in that condition by those in charge of the city.  They were stuck between a rock and a hard place. To try to stop the riot, would be close to suicide, it was out of control. That is your result of liberals running the city for too many years. There was no question by anyone, this was a full scale riot.

In the case of January 6th, the police should be trying to hold the barricades in place, hold the doors shut and, in general, doing all that they can to prevent riders from getting past the fences, getting into the capital and getting access to people inside.

Ok, why didn't they? were they obeying orders also? Were they setting up a trap and didn't know it? Were they just relieved that the event was not violent, was not a riot, and just easing the situation? I don't know.

Do you agree with what I said above?

Of course not. In both cases you are placing the entire blame on the police who act on the orders they receive. In the Floyd riots, there could have easily been many police killed in the line of duty, a fact you do not mention. I do not think any inaction on their part, and to be clear, I do not think they are guilty of any inaction, was the result of them not wanting to do their job.

In the case of the capitol event, we will never know if any orders to stand down were given. Any such orders would have come from the democrats, and they are the ones doing their own investigation. That should be the definition of worthless government action.

[ZenMode]

1) " the number of cops neglecting their duties"
2) "percentage of cops who neglected their duties)
3) " otherwise neglecting their duties)

First off, you are looking at two completely different situations. The Floyd riots were full scale. The police were way understaffed, way out numbered, and the crowd was out of control. Buildings were being looted, buildings, cars, equipment was being burned. Windows being destroyed.  There was no one to call for help. To step into that crowd and try to subdue it could only have been accomplished by gunfire. They were not going to stop the destruction, the liberals, the LSM, the town's leadership have the crowd whipped into a frenzy.  It was allowed, encouraged to get in that condition by those in charge of the city.  They were stuck between a rock and a hard place. To try to stop the riot, would be close to suicide, it was out of control. That is your result of liberals running the city for too many years. There was no question by anyone, this was a full scale riot.

Ok, why didn't they? were they obeying orders also? Were they setting up a trap and didn't know it? Were they just relieved that the event was not violent, was not a riot, and just easing the situation? I don't know.


Of course not. In both cases you are placing the entire blame on the police who act on the orders they receive. In the Floyd riots, there could have easily been many police killed in the line of duty, a fact you do not mention. I do not think any inaction on their part, and to be clear, I do not think they are guilty of any inaction, was the result of them not wanting to do their job.

In the case of the capitol event, we will never know if any orders to stand down were given. Any such orders would have come from the democrats, and they are the ones doing their own investigation. That should be the definition of worthless government action.

I'm not blaming the police.  I'm just saying some number of them weren't doing police things.

[ZenMode]

So, however you want to describe the police that weren't doing things pice usually do  I assume that you would still call the George Floyd people "rioters" because of what THEY were doing  regardless of what police were doing.

The same is true for J6.  Some police didn't do what they should do and let people in at certain doors.  Some took selfies.  That doesn't change the fact there there absolutely were rioters there breaking windows, assaulting police with poles and chemicals, breaking windows, busting in doors, etc.

[Possum]

So, however you want to describe the police that weren't doing things pice usually do  I assume that you would still call the George Floyd people "rioters" because of what THEY were doing  regardless of what police were doing.

The same is true for J6.  Some police didn't do what they should do and let people in at certain doors.  Some took selfies.  That doesn't change the fact there there absolutely were rioters there breaking windows, assaulting police with poles and chemicals, breaking windows, busting in doors, etc.

Go back and reread, I never said the police were not doing their job. You said that. This annoying habit of yours is getting real old.

[ZenMode]

Go back and reread, I never said the police were not doing their job. You said that. This annoying habit of yours is getting real old.

What the police were or weren't doing is irrelevant to what the people were doing and there were a lot of people rioting.

[Sick Of Silence]

They were ALL rioting.

You know who wasn't rioting? Jan 6 crowd.

[Possum]

What the police were or weren't doing is irrelevant to what the people were doing and there were a lot of people rioting.

Wrong again. The police who walked with the Jan. 6th patriots did not fear a riot, did not act like there was a riot, did not act like they thought their life was in danger. They acted like this because there was no riot. But if you are dead set on claiming there was a riot, you never answered the question, why did they open the doors? I did not see anyone at the Floyd riot or ANY OTHER RIOT opening doors. You're not going to find that answer on any of your liberal talking points, that is part of what happened on that day the liberals want you to forget. What else do they want you to forget, how much evidence from the committee has disappeared. Another big question you should be asking, is why.

[ZenMode]

Wrong again. The police who walked with the Jan. 6th patriots did not fear a riot, did not act like there was a riot, did not act like they thought their life was in danger. They acted like this because there was no riot. But if you are dead set on claiming there was a riot, you never answered the question, why did they open the doors? I did not see anyone at the Floyd riot or ANY OTHER RIOT opening doors. You're not going to find that answer on any of your liberal talking points, that is part of what happened on that day the liberals want you to forget. What else do they want you to forget, how much evidence from the committee has disappeared. Another big question you should be asking, is why.

Here's a video of the riot that you apparently believe never happened.

As I said previously, some cops didn't do their job, while some fought and fought and fought to keep the rioters out.

The cops that gave up or otherwise behaved inappropriately were investigated with some being suspended.:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrection-at-the-capitol/2021/02/19/969441904/capitol-police-suspends-6-officers-investigates-dozens-more-after-capitol-riots&ved=2ahUKEwifkvK-vv6AAxXGIUQIHT8XBLwQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0OKxwn_ro3bvHl_fcsPIdO

[Possum]

Here's a video of the riot that you apparently believe never happened.

As I said previously, some cops didn't do their job, while some fought and fought and fought to keep the rioters out.

The cops that gave up or otherwise behaved inappropriately were investigated with some being suspended.:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrection-at-the-capitol/2021/02/19/969441904/capitol-police-suspends-6-officers-investigates-dozens-more-after-capitol-riots&ved=2ahUKEwifkvK-vv6AAxXGIUQIHT8XBLwQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0OKxwn_ro3bvHl_fcsPIdO

Again, there were other groups around the capitol that day. Antifa and the FBI are on record for stirring up trouble. I am talking about the patriots and the area where they entered the capitol, through doors the police opened for them. That was not a riot.

[ZenMode]

Again, there were other groups around the capitol that day. Antifa and the FBI are on record for stirring up trouble. I am talking about the patriots and the area where they entered the capitol, through doors the police opened for them. That was not a riot.

The exception only proves the rule. There was a riot at the Capitol on J6. The small minority of people who were let in by a small minority of Capitol police doesn't change that.

The majority of Floyd protests actually were peaceful. That doesn't mean the rioting, looting, arson,etc didn't happen.