Conservative Political Forum

Elmer put his annual home insurance payment in the mail today.  It's going to the City of Industry in the People's Republic of California.  44 cent stamp, envelope slightly smaller than a legal size envelope.  Here's your chance to predict whether or not it will get there.  It's not due until October 1.  You can only vote once, but you can change your vote.  I voted option 5. 

I said it will get there.  It's not like they can't deliver mail... they are just not as reliable and efficient as FedEx and UPS.

Quote from: taxed on September 12, 2011, 11:13:20 AM
I said it will get there.  It's not like they can't deliver mail... they are just not as reliable and efficient as FedEx and UPS.

Thanks for the honest vote, and the opinion about reliability. 

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 12, 2011, 11:14:32 AM
Thanks for the honest vote, and the opinion FACT about reliability. 

I fixed it...

Quote from: taxed on September 12, 2011, 11:15:50 AM

I fixed it...

Link?  Or is this proved by the statement "water is wet?"

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 12, 2011, 11:38:13 AM
Link?  Or is this proved by the statement "water is wet?"

No one sending something very important runs to the Post Office to make sure it's delivered.

Quote from: taxed on September 12, 2011, 12:25:25 PM

No one sending something very important runs to the Post Office to make sure it's delivered.

No, but don't you think if the post office lost a lot of important stuff it would be newsworthy?  And something thatt UPS and FedEx might exploit for unfair advantage? And as to efficiency, the volume the post office handles is many multiples of the combined voume of FedEx and UPS yet their employe count is not.  I posted about it once before, and I may not recall it exactly right, but I recall it not being that much different, one way or the other, from the combined employee count of FedEx and UPS.  Of course, I realize that FedEx and UPS have a higher percentage of boxes in their volume, and any flats they handle are bigger than the average piece of first class mail.    But I still say USPS does what it does as well as UPS and FedEx do what they do, and if Congress would leave them alone, the current management of USPS could make it profitable.

And thus far no one has voted anything other than 99.999999% sure it'll get there.  I would wager it will get there well before the due date, too.  Uncrumpled.  Although I know mail gets crumpled.  I get it occasionally in an envelope with apologies from the USPS.  But not often. 

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 12, 2011, 06:16:38 PM
No, but don't you think if the post office lost a lot of important stuff it would be newsworthy?  And something thatt UPS and FedEx might exploit for unfair advantage? And as to efficiency, the volume the post office handles is many multiples of the combined voume of FedEx and UPS yet their employe count is not.  I posted about it once before, and I may not recall it exactly right, but I recall it not being that much different, one way or the other, from the combined employee count of FedEx and UPS.  Of course, I realize that FedEx and UPS have a higher percentage of boxes in their volume, and any flats they handle are bigger than the average piece of first class mail.    But I still say USPS does what it does as well as UPS and FedEx do what they do, and if Congress would leave them alone, the current management of USPS could make it profitable.

And thus far no one has voted anything other than 99.999999% sure it'll get there.  I would wager it will get there well before the due date, too.  Uncrumpled.  Although I know mail gets crumpled.  I get it occasionally in an envelope with apologies from the USPS.  But not often. 

Funny you should mention that.
Just the other day on the local Sacto news, a bee keeper shipped Queen bees worth a lot of money, insured them through the post office.
They killed them, and are now sending her through Hell to collect so he can purchase more.
Found the article.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/09/01/call-kurtis-bees/ (http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/09/01/call-kurtis-bees/)

Quote from: Solar on September 12, 2011, 06:40:29 PM
Funny you should mention that.
Just the other day on the local Sacto news, a bee keeper shipped Queen bees worth a lot of money, insured them through the post office.
They killed them, and are now sending her through Hell to collect so he can purchase more.
Found the article.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/09/01/call-kurtis-bees/ (http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/09/01/call-kurtis-bees/)

Okay.  Didn't read the link but don't doubt it says just what you said it says.  Sometimes shippers don't properly package stuff.  Could be, right?  I bet UPS won't be trotting this out and saying "see?  We're better than that!"  And you know why?  Because it's probably happened to them, too.  You want proof?  "Water is wet."

Went back and read the link.  USPS screwed up.  People work there.  UPS and FedEx occasionally screw up too. They're staffed by people too.   Do you think this bee example is the norm? If so, wonder why anybody shipped bees that way in the first place?

And I seriously doubt the bee keeper had to wait on a $338 insurance check before he could afford to buy more queens. 

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 12, 2011, 08:42:17 PM
Okay.  Didn't read the link but don't doubt it says just what you said it says.  Sometimes shippers don't properly package stuff.  Could be, right?  I bet UPS won't be trotting this out and saying "see?  We're better than that!"  And you know why?  Because it's probably happened to them, too.  You want proof?  "Water is wet."

Went back and read the link.  USPS screwed up.  People work there.  UPS and FedEx occasionally screw up too. They're staffed by people too.   Do you think this bee example is the norm? If so, wonder why anybody shipped bees that way in the first place?

And I seriously doubt the bee keeper had to wait on a $338 insurance check before he could afford to buy more queens. 

I think this shows the difference in a gov entity as compared to a free enterprise.
Notice it took nearly three years to get paid, at UPS heads would roll over something like this.
The shipper knows that certain parcels are to be picked up at the terminal by the customer.
Fedex would can an employee over this, I would!

But this is the Post office where most of these employees couldn't get hired in the free mkt if there life depended upon it.

Where do you think "Going Postal" came from?
Not the free mkt business sector!

Quote from: Solar on September 12, 2011, 09:01:52 PM
I think this shows the difference in a gov entity as compared to a free enterprise.
Notice it took nearly three years to get paid, at UPS heads would roll over something like this.
The shipper knows that certain parcels are to be picked up at the terminal by the customer.
Fedex would can an employee over this, I would!

But this is the Post office where most of these employees couldn't get hired in the free mkt if there life depended upon it.Where do you think "Going Postal" came from?
Not the free mkt business sector!

I know where going postal came from.  A guy went postal at an aircraft company or some such near where I live a few years ago.  AS to the part I highlighted, cheap shot. 

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 13, 2011, 12:07:21 PM
I know where going postal came from.  A guy went postal at an aircraft company or some such near where I live a few years ago.  AS to the part I highlighted, cheap shot. 

No it was not a cheap shot, if you've ever worked for the Gov then you would know the majority would never be hired in the private sector.

I sent another payment off today, USPS.  $552 annual life insurance premium on the missus to New York City.  I sure hope it gets there.  It's due October 1.

Quote from: Solar on September 13, 2011, 12:12:09 PM
No it was not a cheap shot, if you've ever worked for the Gov then you would know the majority would never be hired in the private sector.

I have, in fact, worked for the government before and you have, in fact, taken another cheap shot.  I believe Bert's dad once worked for the state of New Jersey and I wonder if he could ever get a job in the private sector?  I wonder if there are any other posters who either work for the government or who have spouses or friends who work for the government who would take issue with Brother Solar's generalization?

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 13, 2011, 01:47:44 PM
I have, in fact, worked for the government before and you have, in fact, taken another cheap shot.  I believe Bert's dad once worked for the state of New Jersey and I wonder if he could ever get a job in the private sector?  I wonder if there are any other posters who either work for the government or who have spouses or friends who work for the government who would take issue with Brother Solar's generalization?

I doubt it, in fact most would agree with my assessment of the majority not being hired by the private sector.
Theres a reason that many work for the Gov, no one else would hire them.
Not all, but most.

Quote from: Solar on September 13, 2011, 01:52:25 PM
I doubt it, in fact most would agree with my assessment of the majority not being hired by the private sector.Theres a reason that many work for the Gov, no one else would hire them.
Not all, but most.

Well, if they do, they're certainly remaining silent on it.  So far it's one to one.  You say yea, I say nay.  Tie game. 

Not everyone looks at this forum.

Then again, maybe it has more to do with you, that they are ignoring this thread. :))

Quote from: Solar on September 14, 2011, 07:54:02 AM
Not everyone looks at this forum.

Then again, maybe it has more to do with you, that they are ignoring this thread. :))

I was talking about the people that DO look at this forum.  And I could understand them ignoring me, but you????????  It has had 50+ views, you know.  And you've garnered no more support than I have!

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 14, 2011, 08:08:43 AM
 

I was talking about the people that DO look at this forum.  And I could understand them ignoring me, but you? ??? ??? ?  It has had 50+ views, you know.  And you've garnered no more support than I have!

So lets see, a thread about the post office has only had three posters, and the last 5 posts have been about lousy Gov employees, yet you use that as eviDENCE  that this is somehow proof that it's a draw?

You crack me up, just like a lib to spin worthless crap in their favor.
:)) :)) :))

Quote from: Solar on September 14, 2011, 10:33:02 AM
So lets see, a thread about the post office has only had three posters, and the last 5 posts have been about lousy Gov employees, yet you use that as eviDENCE  that this is somehow proof that it's a draw?

You crack me up, just like a lib to spin worthless crap in their favor.
:)) :)) :))

So let's start a poll.  I'll start it.  But not right now.  Gotta run.  Ciao!

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 14, 2011, 04:01:57 PM
So let's start a poll.  I'll start it.  But not right now.  Gotta run.  Ciao!

Start it in the Poli forum, it will get more views...

Quote from: Solar on September 14, 2011, 04:35:35 PM
Start it in the Poli forum, it will get more views...

Okay.  But I didn't think it was appropriate for that forum.  You're the boss when it comes to that, though. 

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 15, 2011, 05:26:38 AM
Okay.  But I didn't think it was appropriate for that forum.  You're the boss when it comes to that, though. 

In reality, it is political, sadly, everything is becoming political.

I'll try to behave.

Just wanted to let y'all know that I have had three very pleasant experiences with the USPS of late. 

My home insurance payment of $1206 was mailed on 9/12, was deposited by the recipient in LA on 9/14, and cleared my bank on 9/15.  LA is a couple thousand miles away.

My life insurance payment of $552 was mailed the same day, was deposited by the recipient in NYC on 9/16 (but this recipient is kind of slow to make deposits) and cleared the bank on 9/19.

Amazon.com (sales last year somewhere around $34 billion) shipped an order by USPS on 9/15, estimated delivery 5 to 7 days, I received it on 9/19.  Box looked great, no damage at all.  Their experience with USPS must be better than that which some of youse guys have experienced because they still use USPS a lot.

Not trying to start an argument.  Just taking up for our much maligned (and unfairly, IMO) post office.

Its not about maligning USPS, its more to do with what we get for our money.
They are hemorrhaging at the seams, and instead of doing what a free market enterprise would do, they are cutting services, when the real problem is benefits, thats where the cuts need to start.

Quote from: Solar on September 21, 2011, 09:35:15 AM
Its not about maligning USPS, its more to do with what we get for our money.
They are hemorrhaging at the seams, and instead of doing what a free market enterprise would do, they are cutting services, when the real problem is benefits, thats where the cuts need to start.

I respect your opinion, but at least two posters did just that: malign the USPS.  One said that for an employee of his to use USPS was almost a firing offense and another said when he tried USPS, they lost or damaged most everything he shipped with them.

If Congress would leave them alone, I believe they would be fine.  Saturday delivery should have ended years ago.

Quote from: elmerfudd on September 21, 2011, 11:17:05 AM
I respect your opinion, but at least two posters did just that: malign the USPS.  One said that for an employee of his to use USPS was almost a firing offense and another said when he tried USPS, they lost or damaged most everything he shipped with them.

If Congress would leave them alone, I believe they would be fine.  Saturday delivery should have ended years ago.

Pretty much agree, but I too would fire an employee for using USPS for anything other than sending out bulk mail, something only they do.
When you use Fedex or UPS you can expect immediate recourse if there is any damage or loss, something USPS is horrible at.

I have on several occasions had issues with USPS and immediate assistance never took place, they made you do all the paperwork, but when Fedex or UPS screwed up, all I had to do was make one phone call and it was taken care of immediately.

I even got a call from the main headquarters in the Bay area for UPS over damaged boxes, thats all, just damaged packaging, but my customers need to save these boxes in the event they need to return the product.
Anyway, I got not only a call from the main boss, but he told me if I ever had any issues again, to call his # direct, though we got a new driver that very next day and I never had cause to call him again, though, I still have his #.

It's called adverse selection.  ;)

Much has been said about Postal Service fringes.  I really didn't know what they were, so I did a little research.  These are the links to my sources:

http://about.usps.com/careers/compensation-benefits.htm (http://about.usps.com/careers/compensation-benefits.htm)

http://www.myfederalretirement.com/public/734.cfm (http://www.myfederalretirement.com/public/734.cfm)

http://www.opm.gov/forms/pdfimage/RI90-1.pdf (http://www.opm.gov/forms/pdfimage/RI90-1.pdf)

This is what I learned from those sources, assuming I did not misunderstand something.  All I will guarantee is I did not deliberately misstate anything. 

Health care – there are numerous options available to federal employees, including Postal Service Employees.  There are different rates for postal and non-postal.  Postal workers do have a higher share of their premium paid by their employer than do other federal employees.  Employees pay a portion of the premium for ALL options, though.  There is no option, even for a single person, where the employer pays the entire premium.  (Which I kind of like, frankly.)  The most popular option is Blue Cross Standard.  The BI-WEEKLY premium for self only is $267.05.  For family it's $603.18.  That works out to a monthly premium of $578.61 for single and $1306.89 for family.  For non-postal, the employer pays $391.43 (67.7%) of the single premium and $875.29 (67%) of the family.  The employee pays the difference ($187.18 single and $431.60 family).  For postal workers, the employer share is more than that.  For postal, the employer pays 76.1% of the single premium and 75.3% of the family.  On average, across all plans, the employer pays 70% and the employee pays 30%.

That must be pretty darned good insurance.  My employer has what I consider to be good insurance, and a family premium is right at $1,000 a month, of which the employer pays $375 the employee pays $625.  My employer pays 100% of the employee's premium, the employee pays 100% or any additional family coverage.  Federal insurance is definitely sweeter than mine, and probably every other private sector employer.  Maybe even most state governments.  But that's not just postal workers.  That's all feds. Although postal workers do have a sweeter deal than all other feds, whose deal is already pretty darned sweet.  Might need to take a look at those fringes, too.  Not just the USPS. 

Retirement – in addition to social security, which pretty much every employer offers, feds and postal workers are identical.  I think.  They contribute .8% (eight tenths of 1 percent) to their basic program.  The basic program pays a benefit equal to 1% if the high three average pay TIMES creditable years of service.  If you retire at age 62 or later with at least 20 years of service, the factor is 1.1%.  There is also a thrift savings plan to which the employer contributes 1%.  The employer will match, in addition to that, employee contributions dollar for dollar up to 3% of pay and 50¢ on the dollar for the next 2%.  No matching after 5% of pay. 

There is a COLA in the basic retirement plan.  It's equal to CPI up to 2%. If the CPI is more than 2% but less than 3%, the COLA is 2%.  If the CPI is 3% or more, it's equal to the CPI less 1%.  Probably sweeter than most defined benefit plans in the private sector (if you can still find one), but I've seen sweeter state plans.  I've seen sweeter state plans with respect to basic benefits, too.

So here are my questions:

1.  Do you think the regular federal benefits are out of line as well? 
2.  If you were in charge of restructuring just what I have presented here, what would you recommend? 
3.  Do you think postal workers should have a sweeter health benefit than all other federal workers?

The federal retirement benefit is sweet, but not as sweet as I had imagined it was.  The health insurance is sweeter than I had imagined, and I already thought it was pretty sweet. 

As an employer, I offered them insurance, but all of my employees chose the second option, a higher hourly wage.
Health insurance is fine for the older worker, but is a waste of money if you are young and healthy.
Too much has been made out of insurance, its a scam like all other insurance services.

There used to be a time when they bent over backwards to get you to join, now they bend you over when you sign up.

Well, Amazon.com did it again!  Shipped some books to me USPS and they arrived safe and sound a day earlier than projected.  One of you geniuses with the horrible USPS experience needs to tell them the great risk they're running!  I am sure they would appreciate the heads up!