There's a lot city folks don't know about their own food supply, including how to grow their own if push came to shove. That's understandable when only about one in every 1,000 people actually works in farming.
But what surprises even the small town folks (like myself) not actually living on farms is how farmers are more likely to sustain injuries or fatalities. Trying to clear a combine unit can steal away one or both hands: vehicles can overturn or you can die inside a silo or under a pile of hay bales ... or commit suicide.
It's worth a read, here from Modern Farmer....
http://modernfarmer.com/2014/06/farm-deaths/?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=farm-deaths (http://modernfarmer.com/2014/06/farm-deaths/?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=farm-deaths)
A family friend died due to a tractor overturn that severed arteries in his leg, and Kaiser didn't treat him swiftly. I don't think he was 60, yet.
Lots of moving machinery, fuels, chemicals, and heavy things around the farm.
Farm boys came into the WW2 era Army partially pre-trained. They knew how to handle weapons from hunting, and they knew their way around mechanical things from working on farm equipment.
I've lived in large metropolitan areas since I was not quite 18YO, but I have little respect for people who disdain the farm people who feed and clothe them!
I've rolled a few tractors, including a dozer, but by the grace of God, no injuries, though now I wear a seat belt.
I had a friend years ago get on his tractor during a deep freeze morning to do chores, started it up, hit the throttle and it completely flipped upside down crushing him to death.
The tractor had been parked in a puddle that froze solid, so the rear tires were literally stuck to the ground, in turn lifting the front end off the ground and right on over.
So just a tip, never park in a puddle or mud before a freeze. Just tuck that one away in memory, it could save your life.
99% of all farming accidents are preventable. Farming stands out because you hire the kid down the road or the migrant who doesn't have papers. Farming has a horrible accident record because farmers are shitty accident preventers.
Quote from: TboneAgain on June 22, 2014, 08:44:52 PM99% of all farming accidents are preventable. Farming stands out because you hire the kid down the road or the migrant who doesn't have papers. Farming has a horrible accident record because farmers are shitty accident preventers.
Not paying attention to the chore is a big cause, too.
Quote from: TboneAgain on June 22, 2014, 08:44:52 PM
99% of all farming accidents are preventable. Farming stands out because you hire the kid down the road or the migrant who doesn't have papers. Farming has a horrible accident record because farmers are shitty accident preventers.
I believe that goes for any industry where accidents are preventable, including life in general.
Just like forest fires, Nature is only responsible for 3%, while the rest are human induced.
Quote from: TboneAgain on June 22, 2014, 08:44:52 PM
99% of all farming accidents are preventable. Farming stands out because you hire the kid down the road or the migrant who doesn't have papers. Farming has a horrible accident record because farmers are shitty accident preventers.
I'm resisting an inclination to retort. Allowing for a bit of hyperbole, you could omit the word "farming" from your first sentence without losing accuracy.
As regards your second sentence, broad-brushing much? The farmer I mentioned in my post above owned and was working on his own farm; I could be wrong, but I understood Solar's post to refer to a friend who owned the tractor and farm. For what it's worth, the Filippinos who worked at my Dad's and other farmers' labor camps were here legally! As were the people of Mexican origin (and Japanese ... and Chinese ...!) he worked with - some were descendants of people who were in California when it was a province of Mexico!
Generalizations generally don't withstand examination.
Complex environment and complex machinery make danger anticipation and accident prevention quite difficult. "(S)hitty" is unnecessarily pejorative.
Quote from: SVPete on June 23, 2014, 06:23:02 AM
I'm resisting an inclination to retort. Allowing for a bit of hyperbole, you could omit the word "farming" from your first sentence without losing accuracy.
As regards your second sentence, broad-brushing much? The farmer I mentioned in my post above owned and was working on his own farm; I could be wrong, but I understood Solar's post to refer to a friend who owned the tractor and farm. For what it's worth, the Filippinos who worked at my Dad's and other farmers' labor camps were here legally! As were the people of Mexican origin (and Japanese ... and Chinese ...!) he worked with - some were descendants of people who were in California when it was a province of Mexico!
Generalizations generally don't withstand examination.
Complex environment and complex machinery make danger anticipation and accident prevention quite difficult. "(S)hitty" is unnecessarily pejorative.
The interesting thing about farming, is much of it hasn't changed for centuries.
Like ranching, we still use horses to run cattle, and unless the govt mandates air bag, helmets, motocross protective gear, people will always fall off and get hurt. :biggrin:
Hell, I was nearly killed by a Jersey cow we brought in as a surrogate for a calf that lost it's mother.
The damn bitch was downright mean, I was able to make it to the gate, she caught the gate and lifted it and me so fast, I flew 15' in the air and about 20' outward into the mud.
Sure, I laugh now, but I know of no industry that has machines running with deviate intentions of harming man.
Point is, some accidents are out of mans control.
And I agree with your point about the Asian and Mexican workers, I met these people as a child in the late 50s and early 60s, which left a lasting impression on me, one of love for family, hard work and a sense of community and most of all, hospitality.
They loved their way of life, simple as it was.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi304.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn197%2FMNLLRANCH%2Foshacowboy_1_.jpg&hash=0c4b460bc9325e92ce8130c19524338f833f905f)
Quote from: CG6468 on June 23, 2014, 09:08:02 AM
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi304.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn197%2FMNLLRANCH%2Foshacowboy_1_.jpg&hash=0c4b460bc9325e92ce8130c19524338f833f905f)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: SVPete on June 23, 2014, 06:23:02 AM
I'm resisting an inclination to retort. Allowing for a bit of hyperbole, you could omit the word "farming" from your first sentence without losing accuracy.
As regards your second sentence, broad-brushing much? The farmer I mentioned in my post above owned and was working on his own farm; I could be wrong, but I understood Solar's post to refer to a friend who owned the tractor and farm. For what it's worth, the Filippinos who worked at my Dad's and other farmers' labor camps were here legally! As were the people of Mexican origin (and Japanese ... and Chinese ...!) he worked with - some were descendants of people who were in California when it was a province of Mexico!
Generalizations generally don't withstand examination.
Complex environment and complex machinery make danger anticipation and accident prevention quite difficult. "(S)hitty" is unnecessarily pejorative.
Thank you for resisting, or at least trying, or at least talking about it for a second or two.
My dad was a farmer, as were many of his friends. I worked with and for Dad and for his friends for a lot of years. I was young and dumb then, but knowing what I know now, I wouldn't go back to it for any money.
Later in life, I spent decades in the field called "heavy highway," the construction and maintenance of roads. BIGGER machines moving much FASTER, and uneducated, often unaware civilian automobile and truck traffic thrown in the mix. A man died on a job I worked in 1996. Others, friends of mine, perished on other jobs. But in just about every case, it was because they -- or people around them -- broke the rules.
In my experience, and yes, this is a generalization, in farming, there ain't no rules. For just one example, a hay wagon has no toe kicks, no railings, no tie-off line, no means of securing passengers whatsoever, yet it's pulled by a tractor through ungraded fields with people working on the bed platform. The fall hazard is ridiculously obvious, along with the possibility of being crushed under the wheels of the wagon. In no other industry could such a thing occur. Keep in mind that this practice, along with many other dangerous practices, is an everyday part of farming, not something special or unique. In a good summer, a given hay field will be harvested three times, and there are many such fields to harvest.
When Dad raised beef cattle, we occasionally killed one for meat. (Duh.) Dad used a friend, a meatcutter appropriately named "Hack" to do the killing and help with the skinning and quartering. Hack was short and stout, and he brought with him the tools of his trade -- a razor-sharp skinning knife, a butcher's leather apron, and a single-shot .22 rifle that had been modified to his specifications. The stock of the gun had been "abbreviated" and the barrel was maybe 15" long, with a little sheet-metal screw for a front sight. (I am not making this up.) Simple plan: Dad would turn the day's victim loose and run it up the aisle between hay mows into the barn's large center bay, where Hack was waiting with his deadly weapon. Every cow so introduced into the routine acted precisely the same way -- it would trot into the main bay, spot Hack, and slam on the brakes, planting front hooves into the dirt, and stare at the man. Hack would then assassinate the bovine with one well-placed 40-grain slug to the brain, delivered by a shot to a spot above and between the critter's eyes, a place about the size of a half-dollar. I watched this system work perfectly a dozen times.
But one time, Dad ran a heifer with horns (girl cows can have horns) into the main bay and Hack missed that spot. The lead slug bouncing off the cow's cranium enraged her to the point of killing... something, anything. I was there, and so was Hack. I took off out the man-door, but not before I saw a little fat man climb a stack of fertilizer bags as though he had wings. "Kenny, Kenny!" he squealed. (Dad's name was Kenneth.) "I missed 'er! Get in here!" The situation was quickly stabilized and nobody except the heifer died, and you can tell I love relating this story. But... Lives were in danger and the whole thing could have resulted in serious human injuries or death.
As far as the help goes, farmers in general will hire just about anyone, because the work is hard and the pay is shit. In Ohio, we didn't have ready access to illegals, but I'm sure Dad would have paid a wetback to work as quickly as he paid the white American jailbirds that typically rode the hay wagon with me. Every other farmer I've ever worked for or known is the same way. Even here in Ohio, there are small towns where the population explodes for a few weeks each year, and chromed-up F-150s with plastic scrotums dangling under the trailer hitch fill every parking spot.
BTW, when I say "wetback," I'm referring specifically to an illegal immigrant who crossed into this country along the southern border, sometimes by swimming. Much of that border is defined by the Rio Grande.
I hope I've clarified some things. If not, let me know.
Great story, Tbone.
Your accidents comment prompts this one: I once worked on a highway safety study of trucking fatalities and in statistically 95% or more of all cases it was a civilian driver causing the accident. (If you cannot see the trucker's outside mirrors, he cannot see you. Period. If you ass-end him it is entirely your fault, and if that kills you it is still your fault.)
I've baled hay up a 40-degree incline and agree wholeheartedly with your comment about getting crushed by SOMETHING if you're not careful. Without a helper, I had to position the bales myself and that meant crawling on and off the wagon bed, every bale or two.
Oh damn. Am I posting and not knowing it again?
Quote from: taxed on June 24, 2014, 05:05:07 PM
Oh damn. Am I posting and not knowing it again?
I had the name wrong and corrected it. You sure took your time not noticing my update! :lol:
Quote from: quiller on June 24, 2014, 05:03:52 PM
Great story, Tbone.
Your accidents comment prompts this one: I once worked on a highway safety study of trucking fatalities and in statistically 95% or more of all cases it was a civilian driver causing the accident. (If you cannot see the trucker's outside mirrors, he cannot see you. Period. If you ass-end him it is entirely your fault, and if that kills you it is still your fault.)
I've baled hay up a 40-degree incline and agree wholeheartedly with your comment about getting crushed by SOMETHING if you're not careful. Without a helper, I had to position the bales myself and that meant crawling on and off the wagon bed, every bale or two.
I was just trying to make a point, and I think it got made.
Thanks for the support. I spent a lot of years working out on the road, doing everything from the boss's job down to the lowliest grunt's job. I've been a flagger in interstate highway and two-lane state highway zones, and I've supervised dozens of others. I've run traffic control on $45 million dollar jobs. The average driver in the US is a pretty shitty driver, far below any standard I would consider to be reasonable.
In fact, just about every two-bit moron that comes along is issued a driver's "license" after passing an incredibly rudimentary test. I could tell you stories........
The whole thing with farming is that farmers have always been shielded from being held to any standards. In and of itself, I'm not saying that's a bad thing -- less government is almost always a GOOD thing, in my opinion. But farmers and farm workers have absolutely no licensing or education requirements, not even the laughable Mickey Mouse crap the average driver has to undergo.
Here (http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/aginjury/) is a government (CDC) page that addresses the issue. I can't help noticing that 16% of the deaths of 16-19 year-old youths killed in farming accidents died due to drowning. Drowning?
QuoteIn 2010, 476 farmers and farm workers died from a work-related injury, resulting in a fatality rate of 26.1 deaths per 100,000 workers. Tractor overturns were the leading cause of death for these farmers and farm workers.
Quote from: TboneAgain on June 24, 2014, 04:40:32 PM
Thank you for resisting, or at least trying, or at least talking about it for a second or two.
My dad was a farmer, as were many of his friends. I worked with and for Dad and for his friends for a lot of years. I was young and dumb then, but knowing what I know now, I wouldn't go back to it for any money.
Aww T, I wish every kid in the country had the chance to work on a farm, ranch, open prairie, what have you.
I loved the work, hard as it was. Though ours wasn't a farm, as it was a high end breeding cattle ranch, Hereford, to be exact.
But as much as it beat the hell out of me, I'm grateful for the experience.
Would I go back today? Hell no! That's a young mans job. :laugh:
Quote from: Solar on June 24, 2014, 06:20:44 PM
Aww T, I wish every kid in the country had the chance to work on a farm, ranch, open prairie, what have you.
I loved the work, hard as it was. Though ours wasn't a farm, as it was a high end breeding cattle ranch, Hereford, to be exact.
But as much as it beat the hell out of me, I'm grateful for the experience.
Would I go back today? Hell no! That's a young mans job. :laugh:
Dad loved his damned Herefords too. I'm not saying I got no good out of it. Of course I did get good out of it. My point overall is that farming really can't be compared to any other industry, in terms of the way its workers are treated. I would guess that something like 90% of it is off the books. Even on my own father's farm, I never existed if IRS or OSHA or anyone else came asking. I'm having a hard time thinking of a less regulated or standardized industry.
Quote from: TboneAgain on June 24, 2014, 06:53:04 PM
Dad loved his damned Herefords too. I'm not saying I got no good out of it. Of course I did get good out of it. My point overall is that farming really can't be compared to any other industry, in terms of the way its workers are treated. I would guess that something like 90% of it is off the books. Even on my own father's farm, I never existed if IRS or OSHA or anyone else came asking. I'm having a hard time thinking of a less regulated or standardized industry.
Don't know about your area of the world. In my area the farming day starts out with a safety talk. No one works outside an air condition tractor unless it is shut off and locked out. If the air conditioning stops working it is put out of services and fix before it can be used again. There are no hay wagon like the old days, there hydraulic hay stacker. All small maintenance jobs are done in the fields in my area. If it a big job it is done in a an air condition shop in the summer. In the winter it is heated. Not all farms are run this way, but in my area the farms are good size.
My last job that I worked at for 36 years was big on safety in my last 25 years. So I was happy to see the change in farming in my area when I move back over here.
Quote from: walkstall on June 24, 2014, 07:43:53 PM
Don't know about your area of the world. In my area the farming day starts out with a safety talk. No one works outside an air condition tractor unless it is shut off and locked out. If the air conditioning stops working it is put out of services and fix before it can be used again. There are no hay wagon like the old days, there hydraulic hay stacker. All small maintenance jobs are done in the fields in my area. If it a big job it is done in a an air condition shop in the summer. In the winter it is heated. Not all farms are run this way, but in my area the farms are good size.
My last job that I worked at for 36 years was big on safety in my last 25 years. So I was happy to see the change in farming in my area when I move back over here.
All of these things are EXCELLENT changes. I wish they were industry-wide. They are not.
In my experience, it's tough to imagine air conditioning, either for the boys on the hay wagon or even for the fellow driving the tractor. Dad's Massey-Ferguson 35 didn't have an A/C option.
For sure, the boys on the hay wagon had no A/C options.
Quote from: TboneAgain on June 24, 2014, 07:49:37 PM
All of these things are EXCELLENT changes. I wish they were industry-wide. They are not.
In my experience, it's tough to imagine air conditioning, either for the boys on the hay wagon or even for the fellow driving the tractor. Dad's Massey-Ferguson 35 didn't have an A/C option.
For sure, the boys on the hay wagon had no A/C options.
Amen to that one. Auto-stacker hay wagons are still not universal in my area, though: particularly the smaller farms with weird terrain that isn't profitable for agribusiness people working at faster speeds thanks to better gear.
Quote from: TboneAgain on June 24, 2014, 06:53:04 PM
Dad loved his damned Herefords too. I'm not saying I got no good out of it. Of course I did get good out of it. My point overall is that farming really can't be compared to any other industry, in terms of the way its workers are treated. I would guess that something like 90% of it is off the books. Even on my own father's farm, I never existed if IRS or OSHA or anyone else came asking. I'm having a hard time thinking of a less regulated or standardized industry.
Sooo true, I was paid a monthly wage including room and board, all under the table.
And it was some of the best money I'd ever made, spent nothing for an entire year and bought my land.
Oh, and I didn't date for a year, because I was too tight to spring for a dinner, I was a saving.. :biggrin:
I loved that! :thumbsup:
Don't know if I told this here, but we had been in the high Sierra all summer running cattle, and in the Fall we brought all the cattle down to the ranch, and it was culling time.
Well to make a long story short, John, the owner, says, "see that cow yonder with the bad eye"? We need to cull it out first.
I said Hell John, that's a long way away to see a bad eye, he said the brown and white one, with a shit eating grin. (they were all Herefords)
I laughed and took a long look, and pointed to one particular cow, he said no, not that one, I said you mean the one next to the ugly one?
OK, I think I was set up that afternoon, but as soon as I said it, I caught what I had just said, and everyone started cracking up.
He looks at me and says, remember when you first started working here and asked me "How do you know when you're officially a cowboy"?
Well..... Yar now! :blushing: