How remaning silent is suspicious behavior and ends fourth amendment rights

Started by me2ike, March 02, 2021, 12:07:22 PM

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me2ike

WARNING, if you have taken an oath to serve and protect our Constitution do not view this video it will compromise your deniability stratagem
Watch the first fifteen minutes of this police video of a stop sign violation and see how your fourth and fifth amendments can be rendered useless by supreme court rulings where decisions in Mimms vs. Pennsylvania, Salinas vs Texas and Terry vs Ohio where our Bill of Rights have been reinterpreted empowering police at the expense of our freedoms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mfkacPAJE4
Watch how remaining silent becomes "suspicious behavior" and ends the fourth amendment. I was seventy three at the time and the excessive force almost took my life. This video had the approval and support of a prosecutor and judge. HOW is this legally possible? This is just the tip of the whole story of supreme court empowering police  with qualified immunity where there is no remedy or redress for justice.

RV

Quote from: me2ike on March 02, 2021, 12:07:22 PM
WARNING, if you have taken an oath to serve and protect our Constitution do not view this video it will compromise your deniability stratagem
Watch the first fifteen minutes of this police video of a stop sign violation and see how your fourth and fifth amendments can be rendered useless by supreme court rulings where decisions in Mimms vs. Pennsylvania, Salinas vs Texas and Terry vs Ohio where our Bill of Rights have been reinterpreted empowering police at the expense of our freedoms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mfkacPAJE4
Watch how remaining silent becomes "suspicious behavior" and ends the fourth amendment. I was seventy three at the time and the excessive force almost took my life. This video had the approval and support of a prosecutor and judge. HOW is this legally possible? This is just the tip of the whole story of supreme court empowering police  with qualified immunity where there is no remedy or redress for justice.

As I have said repeatedly, the whole idea of law, Constitutionality, freedom, liberty and justice is an illusion. In a real "legal" system, an election would be within the law, within Constitutional law and would follow legality. The fact that the courts wouldn't even look at the evidence, witness statements, etc. proves that this is NOT a "legal system".

The people who were framed such as Paul Manafort, Carter Paige & General Flynn again proves that anyone can be framed if the wealthy and powerful want them to be. The illegal stuff that was done to President Trump also proves that the media can be used to go after anyone that the wealthy and powerful want with impunity.

HRC had an illegal server, destroyed evidence and was given a pass by corrupt law enforcement with impunity and was not prosecuted for ANY of the crimes that she knowingly committed.

There are two different "justice" systems, one for the wealthy and powerful and one for everyone else.
RV

"Trust in the Lord with all of your heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy path."

Solar

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me2ike

Hey Solar
Please understand I am new to this chat. That there are no responses pro or con is I find very scary. I am assuming all can open the video unless I errored on the link. Apparently I did get to you and assuming you watched it I will stay on point
First, you must understand this video is not about me, it is about all American citizens' and the fact there in no legal redress for constitutional violations because of statutes of limitations and qualified immunity. After the arrest I hired an attorney to for arraignment for a plea of "not guilty" who never returned my request to go over the video to explain the legal ramification of of the arrest. He, after ten calls on his answering  machine, never returned my calls and on the next pre-trial  he came in and I had no understanding of the charger and under great duress I pleaded "no contest" to the charges of resisting arrest, disorderly conduct and the original charge of a stop violation. I never contested the stop sign violation. 
I complained to the Bar Association who said he fulfilled his obligation. I sent the video to the Ohio State representative Kirk Schurring  who sent it to the attorney general who said they don't get in this and I should contact the State supreme court. I did not have $20,000 to essentially throw away. I want to the FBI under color of law and they saw no violations of my civil right or excessive force. I sent the video to many on line legal services, ACLU, Justice department, the county sheriff who said "get over it" without further comment on legality including many sites that claim to value our Bill of Rights. Most if not all have taken an OATH to support the Constitution and there lies part of the problem: apathy. There is simply no redress with in or without the justice system.
Remaining silent is not an option during a traffic stop because you are not under arrest instead you are in a state of "detainment". during this state Miranda in not read and anything you can and will be held against you. At this point you have no protection under law. If you invoke or say nothing that still qualifies as suspicious behavior. The assumption that in remaining silent you have something to hide is a quantum leap that assumes guilt before innocents. This is the "hook" that subverts the intent of the fourth and fifth amendments and there is nothing that can be done to change the treasonous behavior of past supreme court decisions. I am a Kent State Mar4, 1970 graduate who witness the massacre's of four students and wound ing of nine others all with out any government accountability or responsibility in part because of qualified immunity.
Solon, my research has been extensive since the video and the harder I search the more shit I find. My conclusion is enjoy while you can any way you define enjoyment. This government now has more power that the people. Too many good people have given too little to preserve the rights so many others who have given to much to preserve and that saddens more that I can possible say.

Solar

Quote from: me2ike on March 07, 2021, 03:52:56 PM
Hey Solar
Please understand I am new to this chat. That there are no responses pro or con is I find very scary. I am assuming all can open the video unless I errored on the link. Apparently I did get to you and assuming you watched it I will stay on point

First, you must understand this video is not about me, it is about all American citizens' and the fact there in no legal redress for constitutional violations because of statutes of limitations and qualified immunity. After the arrest I hired an attorney to for arraignment for a plea of "not guilty" who never returned my request to go over the video to explain the legal ramification of of the arrest. He, after ten calls on his answering  machine, never returned my calls and on the next pre-trial  he came in and I had no understanding of the charger and under great duress I pleaded "no contest" to the charges of resisting arrest, disorderly conduct and the original charge of a stop violation. I never contested the stop sign violation. 

I complained to the Bar Association who said he fulfilled his obligation. I sent the video to the Ohio State representative Kirk Schurring  who sent it to the attorney general who said they don't get in this and I should contact the State supreme court. I did not have $20,000 to essentially throw away. I want to the FBI under color of law and they saw no violations of my civil right or excessive force. I sent the video to many on line legal services, ACLU, Justice department, the county sheriff who said "get over it" without further comment on legality including many sites that claim to value our Bill of Rights. Most if not all have taken an OATH to support the Constitution and there lies part of the problem: apathy. There is simply no redress with in or without the justice system.

Remaining silent is not an option during a traffic stop because you are not under arrest instead you are in a state of "detainment". during this state Miranda in not read and anything you can and will be held against you. At this point you have no protection under law. If you invoke or say nothing that still qualifies as suspicious behavior. The assumption that in remaining silent you have something to hide is a quantum leap that assumes guilt before innocents. This is the "hook" that subverts the intent of the fourth and fifth amendments and there is nothing that can be done to change the treasonous behavior of past supreme court decisions. I am a Kent State Mar4, 1970 graduate who witness the massacre's of four students and wound ing of nine others all with out any government accountability or responsibility in part because of qualified immunity.
Solon, my research has been extensive since the video and the harder I search the more shit I find. My conclusion is enjoy while you can any way you define enjoyment. This government now has more power that the people. Too many good people have given too little to preserve the rights so many others who have given to much to preserve and that saddens more that I can possible say.
Couple of things, not responding with a good afternoon, how are you, is simply rood, regardless. That's just commonsense. Sure, I get it, you didn't want to say anything incriminating, but you did run a stop sign, it wasn't an arbitrary stop to harass.

Yes, the cop was waaaaaayyyy out of line and should have, in the least, been reprimanded if not fired. I don't have to deal with this shit since I live in a Conservative County, the sheriff are far more professional.
I guess if you take anything away from this, it's to be courteous, cops are just doing their job. Put yourself in his shoes, and you had to deal with someone refusing to talk, though no responsible person would treat anyone like this, but we're all human and have bad days.

Who knows, maybe he just lost a loved one or something?

Oh, and break up your post like I did in the quote, it's a whole lot easier to read.
By the way, welcome to the forum. :smile:
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me2ike

Thank you for your feedback. First, when stopped for a traffic violation it begins in an adversarial position and friendly or social is a moot point and NOT illegal. I just wanted to get home. Always, an officer asks for license, registration and proof of insurance. This officer did not even look at this info I offered. I have no problem with police looking for past legal history like a record of felonies or a outstanding warrants and if they see this stuff can ask for back up for their sake and for the defendant's sake. Police are trained to interrogate to initiate and expand any traffic stop. Ask virtually any cop and they will tell you never speak to a cop.  They are looking for slurred, or nonsensical words which immediately becomes probable cause. I had not been drinking or any drugs. If after he would have read my info and told me why I was stopped I would just taken the ticket and left. As for the officer in the video he had a record of ten different misdemeanors and after the incident disappeared and I could not find him for a possible trial.
"Remaining silent during simple traffic stop questioning, however, is more often than not seen as indication of guilt. Choosing not to speak can easily be confused with choosing not to cooperate, which can make many situations worse by creating reasonable suspicion."CEGAcriminallaw.com
It is my contention that an officer assumes guilt before innocence and that is way too much power which can and often leads to abuse, which usually goes unpunished.
Bottom line, I VIOLATED NO LAW except the stop violation off a back country road with no traffic in sight. It was like being pulled over for going fifty six in a fifty five mile zone. Strictly speaking, I broke the law and admitted that later when I found out why I was stopped.
Question, what percentage would you say of officers witness constitutional violations committed by other officers and do and say nothing. Are they not accomplices in aiding and abetting felonies or misdemeanors?
I am following the Floyd case to see how qualified immunity comes into play as it would have had I won in court.
I do not understand what you mean by breaking up my post. Should I divide up my thoughts with separate replies?
I am sure you know Solon was an Athenian statesman with a moral component.

Solar

Quote from: me2ike on March 08, 2021, 12:26:46 PM
Thank you for your feedback. First, when stopped for a traffic violation it begins in an adversarial position and friendly or social is a moot point and NOT illegal. I just wanted to get home. Always, an officer asks for license, registration and proof of insurance. This officer did not even look at this info I offered.

I have no problem with police looking for past legal history like a record of felonies or a outstanding warrants and if they see this stuff can ask for back up for their sake and for the defendant's sake. Police are trained to interrogate to initiate and expand any traffic stop. Ask virtually any cop and they will tell you never speak to a cop. 

They are looking for slurred, or nonsensical words which immediately becomes probable cause. I had not been drinking or any drugs. If after he would have read my info and told me why I was stopped I would just taken the ticket and left. As for the officer in the video he had a record of ten different misdemeanors and after the incident disappeared and I could not find him for a possible trial.

"Remaining silent during simple traffic stop questioning, however, is more often than not seen as indication of guilt. Choosing not to speak can easily be confused with choosing not to cooperate, which can make many situations worse by creating reasonable suspicion."CEGAcriminallaw.com

It is my contention that an officer assumes guilt before innocence and that is way too much power which can and often leads to abuse, which usually goes unpunished.
Bottom line, I VIOLATED NO LAW except the stop violation off a back country road with no traffic in sight. It was like being pulled over for going fifty six in a fifty five mile zone. Strictly speaking, I broke the law and admitted that later when I found out why I was stopped.

Question, what percentage would you say of officers witness constitutional violations committed by other officers and do and say nothing. Are they not accomplices in aiding and abetting felonies or misdemeanors?

I am following the Floyd case to see how qualified immunity comes into play as it would have had I won in court.
I do not understand what you mean by breaking up my post. Should I divide up my thoughts with separate replies?
I am sure you know Solon was an Athenian statesman with a moral component.
Look above where I quoted your earlier post, and compare it to what you wrote. It's your own words, I simply created spaces so others could read it.
Crowding words will make people ignore what you have to say, it really is a bitch to read. I did the same with this post, look at how I spaced out what you said, makes it much more pleasing to the eye.
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UltimateDeplorable

I'm with Solar here. You alone initiated the entire confrontation by first violating the law. Secondly, your defensive and obviously negative attitude toward the LEO's demands and failure to obey them greatly exacerbated what could have been a simple, common and quickly remedied ordeal.

Your most grievous error was to give reason for the LEO to be concerned for HIS safety by not complying. Put yourself in his shoes. The LEO's first priority is to ensure his safety when stopping a vehicle. Most often, the police are attacked or shot when the occupant fails to respond to the officer's demands because they often are wanted, have contraband or an illegal weapon in their possession. This is why you were yanked from your vehicle and thrown to the ground. Sir, you deserved exactly that.

I personally know of a state trooper who stopped a 70 year old man who was driving erratically. The trooper wasn't all too concerned when approaching the vehicle and saw an elderly man. But then the trooper noticed what ended up being a .44 magnum revolver sitting on the seat beside the obviously intoxicated driver. The trooper immediately told the man not to touch his weapon. The man immediately grabbed his gun and shot the trooper in the shoulder, completely destroying the muscle, clavicle, and scapula. Although badly wounded, the trooper took the defensive position behind the truck and emptied his weapon into the back window, placing a bullet in the man's head and neck, killing him instantly. In retrospect, the trooper should have yanked the man out of the truck immediately in the same fashion that you encountered.

Your experience had nothing to do with the constitution. It had everything to do with an obstinate man. You.  :thumbdown:




Finding an intelligent liberal is more difficult than  inventing perpetual motion.

Solar

Quote from: UltimateDeplorable on April 26, 2021, 10:41:16 AM
I'm with Solar here. You alone initiated the entire confrontation by first violating the law. Secondly, your defensive and obviously negative attitude toward the LEO's demands and failure to obey them greatly exacerbated what could have been a simple, common and quickly remedied ordeal.

Your most grievous error was to give reason for the LEO to be concerned for HIS safety by not complying. Put yourself in his shoes. The LEO's first priority is to ensure his safety when stopping a vehicle. Most often, the police are attacked or shot when the occupant fails to respond to the officer's demands because they often are wanted, have contraband or an illegal weapon in their possession. This is why you were yanked from your vehicle and thrown to the ground. Sir, you deserved exactly that.

I personally know of a state trooper who stopped a 70 year old man who was driving erratically. The trooper wasn't all too concerned when approaching the vehicle and saw an elderly man. But then the trooper noticed what ended up being a .44 magnum revolver sitting on the seat beside the obviously intoxicated driver. The trooper immediately told the man not to touch his weapon. The man immediately grabbed his gun and shot the trooper in the shoulder, completely destroying the muscle, clavicle, and scapula. Although badly wounded, the trooper took the defensive position behind the truck and emptied his weapon into the back window, placing a bullet in the man's head and neck, killing him instantly. In retrospect, the trooper should have yanked the man out of the truck immediately in the same fashion that you encountered.

Your experience had nothing to do with the constitution. It had everything to do with an obstinate man. You.  :thumbdown:
Excellent points, all!
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UltimateDeplorable

Quote from: Solar on April 26, 2021, 10:55:40 AM
Excellent points, all!

Thanks, Solar. There have been many LEOs among friends and family in my life since I was around 12 years old, and it continues today. People on the outside of that ring have no idea what LEOs face. People tout that they chose their profession, which is true, but that fact doesn't make their profession any less stressful, dangerous or impact their off duty lives less significantly.

Some cops are bad, there are bad people in every profession and every walk of life. But most are good and there to make our streets safer.
I've been stopped several times, and deserved to be stopped in each instance. Always ended up with cordial discourse. Ticket or not.
Finding an intelligent liberal is more difficult than  inventing perpetual motion.

Solar

Quote from: UltimateDeplorable on April 26, 2021, 11:57:18 AM
Thanks, Solar. There have been many LEOs among friends and family in my life since I was around 12 years old, and it continues today. People on the outside of that ring have no idea what LEOs face. People tout that they chose their profession, which is true, but that fact doesn't make their profession any less stressful, dangerous or impact their off duty lives less significantly.

Some cops are bad, there are bad people in every profession and every walk of life. But most are good and there to make our streets safer.
I've been stopped several times, and deserved to be stopped in each instance. Always ended up with cordial discourse. Ticket or not.
Same here. Only had issue with one being a dick, and I doubt he's still on the force.
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RV

Quote from: UltimateDeplorable on April 26, 2021, 11:57:18 AMThanks, Solar. There have been many LEOs among friends and family in my life since I was around 12 years old, and it continues today. People on the outside of that ring have no idea what LEOs face. People tout that they chose their profession, which is true, but that fact doesn't make their profession any less stressful, dangerous or impact their off duty lives less significantly.

Some cops are bad, there are bad people in every profession and every walk of life. But most are good and there to make our streets safer.
I've been stopped several times, and deserved to be stopped in each instance. Always ended up with cordial discourse. Ticket or not.

As a former law enforcement officer and the child of a career law enforcement officer, I agree wholeheartedly! Caring about others means that we value a Police Officer's life and do everything we can to ensure that they are safe, regardless of whether we are on the receiving end of a citation or not. We need to obey EVERY lawful order and cooperate fully with them. As a civilian we have no idea why they do what they do, ask the questions they ask and look at the things they look at.

I would also agree that there is no way that we can know what the Police Officer is dealing with at home. That "rude Officer" may have just lost a child, have a sick child, lost a partner, etc. the possibilities are endless. Police Officers are human and aren't always at their best although, they have to work for a living and bring home a paycheck just like the rest of us!
RV

"Trust in the Lord with all of your heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy path."

dickfoster

Quote from: RV on June 03, 2021, 06:52:48 AMAs a former law enforcement officer and the child of a career law enforcement officer, I agree wholeheartedly! Caring about others means that we value a Police Officer's life and do everything we can to ensure that they are safe, regardless of whether we are on the receiving end of a citation or not. We need to obey EVERY lawful order and cooperate fully with them. As a civilian we have no idea why they do what they do, ask the questions they ask and look at the things they look at.

I would also agree that there is no way that we can know what the Police Officer is dealing with at home. That "rude Officer" may have just lost a child, have a sick child, lost a partner, etc. the possibilities are endless. Police Officers are human and aren't always at their best although, they have to work for a living and bring home a paycheck just like the rest of us!
That is a total crock of pure crap. I don't give a fat flying fuck if a cop is having trouble at home when he's on the job his first job is to be professional. The biggest problem cops have with their fucked up image today is because other cops do not hold the bad ones accountable. If they'd get their fat heads out of their asses they would enjoy a lot more public support than they do now. As they say one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel.
Crazy but not stupid!

Solar

Quote from: dickfoster on June 03, 2021, 09:09:52 AMThat is a total crock of pure crap. I don't give a fat flying fuck if a cop is having trouble at home when he's on the job his first job is to be professional. The biggest problem cops have with their fucked up image today is because other cops do not hold the bad ones accountable. If they'd get their fat heads out of their asses they would enjoy a lot more public support than they do now. As they say one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel.
And that's the thing, there aren't that many bad sheriff, but the lefts Blue State fuck ups are being held up as example of all law enforcement.
Try and not let the lefts message of, "All cops are bad" BS influence your views.

The majority of Good cops are still representative of overall law enforcement, it is the Marxists who are hiring bad police Chiefs in hopes of making all law enforcement look bad, and their media is parroting the message that policing is inherently evil.
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dickfoster

Quote from: Solar on June 03, 2021, 09:23:20 AMAnd that's the thing, there aren't that many bad sheriff, but the lefts Blue State fuck ups are being held up as example of all law enforcement.
Try and not let the lefts message of, "All cops are bad" BS influence your views.

The majority of Good cops are still representative of overall law enforcement, it is the Marxists who are hiring bad police Chiefs in hopes of making all law enforcement look bad, and their media is parroting the message that policing is inherently evil.
I don't have to let the left influence me, I have eyes, ears and a functioning brain of my own and judge by what (I) see and hear. In fact I can even smell a fucked up attitude.
Crazy but not stupid!