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June 13, 2021, 10:10:05 AM

Water cooled AC, next phase.

Started by Hoofer, June 09, 2021, 10:36:54 AM

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Hoofer

2 years ago, our AC unit sprung a leak in the condenser's coil (that' the big copper coil outside), it was 20yrs old.  An R-22 unit.  Fortunately, I am licensed "universal", and had the "tools" - it's at the end-of-life.  It also amounted to $125-175 per month of our electric bill... when it actually kept the house cool, it was 75 indoors.  the 3 Ton York unit was getting replaced.

Other factors include a replacement roof, from BLACK to GREEN, with IR reflectivity that's suppose to give us a cooler roof (no shading), and adding 6" of fiberglass batts to the roof, with perforated reflective foil on the slanted part of the roof, and perforated foil laided down before the additional fiberglass was added.  The cost of the foil & insulation was $1200, kids put it up.

The ceiling is no longer warm-to-the-touch during the sunniest days - so, I think the combination of new roof, foil & insulation combination is working.  We had 2 days of +90, direct sun
, the house was quite comfortable, 75 degrees, at the thermostat set point. 

One summer ago before the new roof, we did see a reduction $30-50 in the electric bill, but, we also had more kids at home, one of which took LONG showers... the military will straighten her out.

OUT went the 3 Ton York, in went a 2 Ton, water cooled chiller.   We're discharging the water onto the back yard - the grass is DEAD from the hot water.  I've been looking for a Stainless Steel tank, with a stainless steel coil in it.  Prices are all over the place.  Not a heat exchanger outside of the tank, the flow rate is far too slow, maybe on the hottest day, we hit 1 gallon per minute, Delta-T varies, as the load increases or decreases, flow rate is based on head pressure - it comes out ... about a 60 degree temperature rise.

I want to recover that slow heating into a pre-heating hot water tank during the summer months, further reducing my electrical consumption.  It might take HOURS to heat up 80 gallons of water, but, it's FREE HEAT recovered.  The pre-heater tank would then be inline to the normal water heater (electric, ugh), and instead of heating from 65 degrees to 130, the electric heating elements might "rest" most of summer months.

Last month our electric bill was 2450kWh, slightly higher than the previous month, usually by this time we'd been closer to 3000-3200kWh, and stay there till October.  My HVAC specialist (we work at the same company), said, "What you gain in cooling power, will be LOST in water usage, but keep track, if it works....."  If I can cut off 1000kWh with the improvements... Oh BOY!!!  We're looking at a pre-heating tank.  Fortunately, the house water pressure would just feed through the tank, no additional pump needed - we just reverse feed, from top to bottom, and it pre-heats.
BTW - this is NOT city water or sewer, it's a farmette.  (we call anything under... 50 acres a farmette, 'cause it's pretty difficult to make a living on something that small, but, they can be fun).  Stainless is crucial, the water in this area is slightly acidic, copper anything... ruins the taste of the water, & leaves blue streaks.  (we solved that for drinking water, filters packed with limestone, it DOES work, even the neighbors said our water tastes the best).


I will entertain any suggestions - hope I included enough information.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Solar

So am I to understand you're wasting the water onto the lawn and it's burning but would rather recover it?
How about a 2500 gallon poly tank? They do take the heat and hold up to the sun several decades.
White, black, green, whatever suits your fancy. Around $1200. for 2500 gallon tank..
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Hoofer

Quote from: Solar on June 09, 2021, 10:52:57 AMSo am I to understand you're wasting the water onto the lawn and it's burning but would rather recover it?
How about a 2500 gallon poly tank? They do take the heat and hold up to the sun several decades.
White, black, green, whatever suits your fancy. Around $1200. for 2500 gallon tank..

Wasting HEAT and WATER.  Ideally, I use the waste to Pre-heat our hot water, and then dump that into poly tank for power outages.

Wish I could put a tank into the attic for flushing toilets...  probably weigh too much.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Solar

Quote from: Hoofer on June 09, 2021, 10:55:45 AMWasting HEAT and WATER.  Ideally, I use the waste to Pre-heat our hot water, and then dump that into poly tank for power outages.

Wish I could put a tank into the attic for flushing toilets...  probably weigh too much.
Yeah, I wanted to do the same, but didn't even consider it I built my house.
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Hoofer

Quote from: Solar on June 09, 2021, 11:10:40 AMYeah, I wanted to do the same, but didn't even consider it I built my house.
I spend a lot of time, money & "energy" trying to be more efficient and lower the cost of living....

One of the other things I need to do, Air Exchange, an air heat exchanger.

Why don't they just build houses with this stuff in mind?  I don't get it.
Guy recently built a house, asked me, what I'd do - and I forgot to mention all these little things, than translate to energy savings.  He did go with a modular (kids have allergies), and I suggested 6" or 8" walls, over 4" walls, insulated basement walls.  Wow... those 6" walls make that house so QUIET!
But, then he went 100% electric...?  Ran out of money, I guess.  I would have gone propane as much as I could, out in the country power fails are a given... and he's having them.

Well, the nice thing about the water-cooled AC, it doesn't matter how hot it is outside, that little 2 Ton unit just runs, and the house is always comfortable.  I need a couple of Solar Panels to offload electricity from the pump, shift that over to the UPSes...  Who knows, I might wind up just Fridges, Washer, Dryer, Cmomputers  & lights on commercial power when this is all done.

If you think of a toilet flushing solution, other than pumping from the basement, a big tank, I'd go for that.
It's the weight of the water in the attic...
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Solar

Quote from: Hoofer on June 10, 2021, 01:59:54 AMI spend a lot of time, money & "energy" trying to be more efficient and lower the cost of living....

One of the other things I need to do, Air Exchange, an air heat exchanger.

Why don't they just build houses with this stuff in mind?  I don't get it.
Guy recently built a house, asked me, what I'd do - and I forgot to mention all these little things, than translate to energy savings.  He did go with a modular (kids have allergies), and I suggested 6" or 8" walls, over 4" walls, insulated basement walls.  Wow... those 6" walls make that house so QUIET!
Yep, that's what I did, went full 6" walls with 1" ply on both sides, heavily insulated wrapped in 30 Lb roofing felt.
QuoteBut, then he went 100% electric...?  Ran out of money, I guess.  I would have gone propane as much as I could, out in the country power fails are a given... and he's having them.
Yeah, avoid electric at all costs, with the few exceptions. I have used tankless water heating for over 3 decades, save thousands over the years, heat and cooking with gas never fails, but electricity does, especially when you need it most.
QuoteWell, the nice thing about the water-cooled AC, it doesn't matter how hot it is outside, that little 2 Ton unit just runs, and the house is always comfortable.  I need a couple of Solar Panels to offload electricity from the pump, shift that over to the UPSes...  Who knows, I might wind up just Fridges, Washer, Dryer, Cmomputers  & lights on commercial power when this is all done.
I went with minisplits, heat or cool the room you want, at very little cost. I love these things.
QuoteIf you think of a toilet flushing solution, other than pumping from the basement, a big tank, I'd go for that.
It's the weight of the water in the attic...

Granted, they are a bit pricey, but a 6 person composting toilet might be just what you're looing for.
I've used them, even sold and installed them for customers, who now love them. Didn't at first.

They take a bit of adjusting to, but once you get used to the routine, you'll love it and he water and electricity you save will pay for itself within a decade.

Just something to consider.
If you have a place off the main entry that you can ad a side room, fix it up real nice, add one of these and everyone will use it over the old conventional toilet.

Just a starting place.



https://usa.sun-mar.com/central-toilets-centrex-composting-toilets/
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Hoofer

Meeeeeehhhhhhhh!  I'll stick with the old flusher for now.

My brother had one of those in his cabin, raved how "it never stinks" - but when 6 of us loaded it up on a deer hunting weekend... yeah, she got to stinkin' pretty fierce!
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...