I have thought about this on a number of occasion and hope you have also. What would you be willing to do to survive. Steal ,kill ? Kill a stranger is one thing how about some one very close to you ? Drink your own urine or maybe eat another human ? What price are you willing to pay to survive. Could you survive mentally if you did some of these things ?
I have thought about it, even been in a couple of situations, and thats how I know that each one comes with it's own unique set of challenges.
You may be in a life threatening situation with a buddy, and he puts his life on the line for you, but the next time may be different, maybe the two of you are starving, hunger can make people do strange things.
Myself, it depends on many factors, but for a loved one, I will give up my life, no doubt about it.
Even risked my life for total strangers a few times, it all depends on the circumstances.
I know that doesn't really answer your question, but there is no real true answer for all situations.
Good question....hard to answer,,, having never been ,,,well no I can't claim that. Yes... I am almost positive I could. If the threat was in my face real. If all probabilites of not having to, showed must do. I think I could. I would puke my guts out later and go nuts for a while,,,but I think I could. A loved one would be difficult,,,, I think I would try to fix first, but then again in a full blown survival situation,,,,,, thats where that meet here and become a viable surviving team would be in full force...
Elfie
That tells me a lot about all of you and thank you for being true critical thinkers and truthful. Your my kind of people and ones I wouldn't mind watching my back. Some of the Joe Rambo types will say they could do it all and come out with a Tarzan yell. Those are the ones that probably have never been tested and I would be very weary of them :o
It's a very good question Bob, and one I hope no one ever has to experience.
It comes down to core values, something that may take a little soul searching on their part.
I dislike the Rambo types..... I have run into a few...but they get kinda krinky...
Honestly Bob - I know Solar would do almost anything to protect me. Even from myself.... :) :)
I would like to think I would do what had to be done for the survival of the group I was committed to. The question for me is at which point would I adjust my moral position to allow my group to survive, and would the group be able to accept those choices for themselves? Think Donner Party here. Or the Soccer team in the Andes.
Beyond that, No matter how well fortified you are at first, eventually you will most likely join groups of other people as everyones supplies run out. Even self sufficient family units are going to have to occaisionally get together. Skills of other people will be needed, and it is human nature to socialize. If you don't think so, hope you like banjo music.
In the early days when you are protecting your family and everyone is running around or holed up, you cannot depend on the police. Hurricane Katrina was a good model. Much of the police force abused there status and was looting and abusing their positions. Some abandond their posts to protect their families. Not judging, but police are people too.
I would not want to, and would avoid it if possible, but I would put myself in harms way to protect my group as long as there was a known benefit. If my sacrifice would harm the group, it is not worth it.
Depending on the environment, I think I would probably use human flesh as bait before I would use it as a meal. When you are talking cannibalism though, hopefully that will never have to be an option.
To be honest with all of you, I don't know any of you beyond this forum, so putting my life on the line for any of you is a non-starter. Nothing personal. I would need to develop a face-to-face relationship first, know a lot more about each and every one of you, then take it from there.
The biggest mistake a person or group can make is to TRUST "other" people too much. Think of strangers as car salesman, lawyers, insurance salesman, or politicians. Proceed with extreme caution. It may save your life or the lives of other members of your group.
I don't know of any "Rambo" types in here. Most of us are too damn OLD to be Rambos. ;D
Quote from: AmericanFlyer on December 12, 2010, 01:56:05 PM
To be honest with all of you, I don't know any of you beyond this forum, so putting my life on the line for any of you is a non-starter. Nothing personal. I would need to develop a face-to-face relationship first, know a lot more about each and every one of you, then take it from there.
The biggest mistake a person or group can make is to TRUST "other" people too much. Think of strangers as car salesman, lawyers, insurance salesman, or politicians. Proceed with extreme caution. It may save your life or the lives of other members of your group.
I don't know of any "Rambo" types in here. Most of us are too damn OLD to be Rambos. ;D
I am no "Rambo" but dam I am good with a bow and arrows even at my age. LOL ;D My brother is 80 and giving classes yet.
Which raises the question... who would be in your group,,what qualities would they bring to make said group a functioning unit? Would the group include those that did not have a talent of somekind that would benefit the group, excluding the old ones of course....
Quote from: Elfie on December 13, 2010, 07:12:55 AM
Which raises the question... who would be in your group,,what qualities would they bring to make said group a functioning unit? Would the group include those that did not have a talent of somekind that would benefit the group, excluding the old ones of course....
Ever since the beginning of time, there have been the lowly garbage man.
Someone has to do the dirty jobs, if they want to live.
Quote from: Solar on December 13, 2010, 07:24:39 AM
Ever since the beginning of time, there have been the lowly garbage man.
Someone has to do the dirty jobs, if they want to live.
giggling just a bit,,, I would think all of em would be some hard work.... :)
Quote from: Elfie on December 13, 2010, 07:33:52 AM
giggling just a bit,,, I would think all of em would be some hard work.... :)
I was discerning between the hunters and warriors, those that can do neither, had to clean up after those that could.
I get your point though, about simply caring for your fellow man.
But I think it differs from city to rural domiciles.
For instance, in my area, we would work together separately, in the city, I would imagine people would have to group closely together.
Quote from: Solar on December 13, 2010, 07:45:15 AM
I was discerning between the hunters and warriors, those that can do neither, had to clean up after those that could.
I get your point though, about simply caring for your fellow man.
But I think it differs from city to rural domiciles.
For instance, in my area, we would work together separately, in the city, I would imagine people would have to group closely together.
i understand..... it would be ugly and pretty darned gross at that.....
Quote from: Elfie on December 13, 2010, 08:56:56 AM
i understand..... it would be ugly and pretty darned gross at that.....
It would be a time when people have to swallow their pride.
You're right about those without a skill, would probably be at the bottom of the Totem pole.
Quote from: Solar on December 13, 2010, 07:45:15 AM
I was discerning between the hunters and warriors, those that can do neither, had to clean up after those that could.
I get your point though, about simply caring for your fellow man.
But I think it differs from city to rural domiciles.
For instance, in my area, we would work together separately, in the city, I would imagine people would have to group closely together.
When you live 30 to 60 miles out of town it is a way of life.
In my area, when the call for help goes out. People and equipment come out of the wood work. It is the way of life, they don't sit around saying it not my job.
Quote from: Solar on December 13, 2010, 09:01:57 AM
It would be a time when people have to swallow their pride.
You're right about those without a skill, would probably be at the bottom of the Totem pole.
everyone would have a job thats for sure....
Quote from: walkstall on December 13, 2010, 09:06:43 AM
When you live 30 to 60 miles out of town it is a way of life.
In my area, when the call for help goes out. People and equipment come out of the wood work. It is the way of life, they don't sit around saying it not my job.
Exactly!
It can take as much as an hour for help to arrive here as well.
Quote from: walkstall on December 13, 2010, 09:06:43 AM
When you live 30 to 60 miles out of town it is a way of life.
In my area, when the call for help goes out. People and equipment come out of the wood work. It is the way of life, they don't sit around saying it not my job.
thats how it is to the river to.....
Actually, Those without practical skills are pretty usefull. These are your sentrys, caretakers for the infirm, students, food gatherers, repair persons, messengers, in some cases they can be good leaders.
Problems come in with people who have skills who think they should be privileged because they posess a certain talent or skill.
Quote from: Eyesabide on December 13, 2010, 09:48:13 AM
Actually, Those without practical skills are pretty usefull. These are your sentrys, caretakers for the infirm, students, food gatherers, repair persons, messengers, in some cases they can be good leaders.
I would consider some of those skills.
QuoteProblems come in with people who have skills who think they should be privileged because they posess a certain talent or skill.
Or those that have actually done nothing but use others money, to acquire their own.
That is more the kind of person I was thinking of, a person that has pretty much done nothing in life, but use others to make their way.
They are quickly either going to humble themselves, or go it alone.
I have no use for bankers. ;D
Quote from: Eyesabide on December 13, 2010, 09:48:13 AM
Actually, Those without practical skills are pretty usefull. These are your sentrys, caretakers for the infirm, students, food gatherers, repair persons, messengers, in some cases they can be good leaders.
Problems come in with people who have skills who think they should be privileged because they posess a certain talent or skill.
Your very wise for your age Eyes. But then you also have training in this area. Always nice having someone who has walked the talk young man.
Ya the flatlanders having to group together, that's just what the enemy would want. It makes them a bigger target that way :P I can just visualize an army of hiphoppers and rappers with their pants down around their ass charging the enemy with game boys in one hand and a cell phone in the other. O. K. now y'all can help me out>>>> what would be their battle cry. maybe just maybe it would be Waaa Waaa :'(
Quote from: walkstall on December 13, 2010, 09:06:43 AM
When you live 30 to 60 miles out of town it is a way of life.
In my area, when the call for help goes out. People and equipment come out of the wood work. It is the way of life, they don't sit around saying it not my job.
Just before Thanksgiving a large tree fell across the road a mile or so from the house. One of the neighbors went a cut a chunk out and left just enough room to drive a car through. Finally one day I mentioned to Solar that it still hadn't been cleaned up. He took our tractor down got the tree totally out of the way, pushed the debris the other guy left in the way out of the road and then scrapped the entire road of all the mud and crap. The guy who originally took out the chunk came out and started complaining to Solar that it was okay the way it was and that he shouldn't be messing with it. Solar told him that I had been having trouble getting through to which the guy called me stupid.... So far the UPS guys have thanked us, and several other neighbors.....I guess you can't make everyone happy... 8)
Quote from: Solars Toy on December 13, 2010, 07:30:49 PM
Just before Thanksgiving a large tree fell across the road a mile or so from the house. One of the neighbors went a cut a chunk out and left just enough room to drive a car through. Finally one day I mentioned to Solar that it still hadn't been cleaned up. He took our tractor down got the tree totally out of the way, pushed the debris the other guy left in the way out of the road and then scrapped the entire road of all the mud and crap. The guy who originally took out the chunk came out and started complaining to Solar that it was okay the way it was and that he shouldn't be messing with it. Solar told him that I had been having trouble getting through to which the guy called me stupid.... So far the UPS guys have thanked us, and several other neighbors.....I guess you can't make everyone happy... 8)
Around my area a farmer would fly in a choppers and move the full tree out. LOL
Quote from: offgridbob on December 13, 2010, 07:20:04 PM
Ya the flatlanders having to group together, that's just what the enemy would want. It makes them a bigger target that way :P I can just visualize an army of hiphoppers and rappers with their pants down around their ass charging the enemy with game boys in one hand and a cell phone in the other. O. K. now y'all can help me out>>>> what would be their battle cry. maybe just maybe it would be Waaa Waaa :'(
more like yo-yo-yo fashizzle
Quote from: Solars Toy on December 13, 2010, 07:30:49 PM
Just before Thanksgiving a large tree fell across the road a mile or so from the house. One of the neighbors went a cut a chunk out and left just enough room to drive a car through. Finally one day I mentioned to Solar that it still hadn't been cleaned up. He took our tractor down got the tree totally out of the way, pushed the debris the other guy left in the way out of the road and then scrapped the entire road of all the mud and crap. The guy who originally took out the chunk came out and started complaining to Solar that it was okay the way it was and that he shouldn't be messing with it. Solar told him that I had been having trouble getting through to which the guy called me stupid.... So far the UPS guys have thanked us, and several other neighbors.....I guess you can't make everyone happy... 8)
That was good of Solar to do... Who knows about the other guy,,,maybe he just wanted room enough for his vehicles... there's always gonna be someone who complains about that....
Quote from: Eyesabide on December 13, 2010, 09:48:13 AM
Actually, Those without practical skills are pretty usefull. These are your sentrys, caretakers for the infirm, students, food gatherers, repair persons, messengers, in some cases they can be good leaders.
Problems come in with people who have skills who think they should be privileged because they posess a certain talent or skill.
Are you fond of the term "drones?"
Who gets to decide what skills are "practical" in your world?
Between the wife and I, we have most things covered, skill-wise, and our supply cache is formidable. One of the more important skills that I need to practice more often are my shooting skills. When you live out in the middle of nowhere, gunfire is as common as farm equipment. ;D
Himself and I will do well. There is a meeting place we have for the third... Son and his will follow and I have been groomin his wife in gathering and his daughters in basic doing without. Neice n nephew can track, I just have to practice more hands on edible and medicinal plant life... a work in always practice.
Hi, tbone!
Circumstance decides what is practical in my world.
"Drones" is fun to say, but circumstance does not always require an insect like society. This is why the more accurate and respectful word chosen was "student".