Quote from: Charliemyboy on May 16, 2015, 07:28:06 AM
The goat was likely one of his wives.

Nope! His FAVORITE wife!

Women are allowed to drive in Arabia now because of the incredible courage of numerous women there who fought the ban, some of whome were punished harshly for doing so.

The Saudis, are allies, are still the most vile government in the Middle East in terms of internal freedoms.  The only group worse is ISIS, but techniaclly they aren't a country. 

Yet ISIS ideology was directly funded by the Saudis and in fact if you look at their two legal codes they are virtually identical.

Stonings, beheadings lynchings, etc. 

This is a not a country to be allied with and they make Iran look like Jeffersonian democrats.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 17, 2015, 07:50:37 AM
Women are allowed to drive in Arabia now because of the incredible courage of numerous women there who fought the ban, some of whome were punished harshly for doing so.

The Saudis, are allies, are still the most vile government in the Middle East in terms of internal freedoms.  The only group worse is ISIS, but techniaclly they aren't a country. 

Yet ISIS ideology was directly funded by the Saudis and in fact if you look at their two legal codes they are virtually identical.

Stonings, beheadings lynchings, etc. 

This is a not a country to be allied with and they make Iran look like Jeffersonian democrats.

Are you talking about the Iran that wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth? Is that raciest also, or is it only members of this forum who are raciest. I don't seem to recall the saudis threating to wipe out Israel.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 17, 2015, 07:50:37 AM
Women are allowed to drive in Arabia now because of the incredible courage of numerous women there who fought the ban, some of whome were punished harshly for doing so.

According to the L. A. Times, and a woman who lives in Saudi Arabia, still cannot legally drive there.  I can't find an article that says they can, either.  There was a recommendation made to the council last year, but it doesn't look like it's happened yet.


http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-saudi-women-rideshare-apps-20150507-story.html#page=1

Quote from: s3779m on May 17, 2015, 11:19:08 AM
  Are you talking about the Iran that wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth? Is that raciest also, or is it only members of this forum who are raciest. I don't seem to recall the saudis threating to wipe out Israel.

Call it whatever you want to.  I have to go on record as saying that American women really do not want to be under the gun, so to speak, or bird dogged about their every move.  That is most American conservative women.  I don't know why liberal women have their heads up their butts in this matter but I can tell you that in the event that we are so overwhelmed by these muslims and their presence here there won't be any place that these same liberals can hide who turned their heads at this particular type of slavery.   

Quote from: keyboarder on May 17, 2015, 11:52:12 AM
Call it whatever you want to.  I have to go on record as saying that American women really do not want to be under the gun, so to speak, or bird dogged about their every move.  That is most American conservative women.  I don't know why liberal women have their heads up their butts in this matter but I can tell you that in the event that we are so overwhelmed by these muslims and their presence here there won't be any place that these same liberals can hide who turned their heads at this particular type of slavery.   

They are liberals. I bet they truly believe their liberalism would exempt them from any harm by radical Islamists. These heathens don't give a damn about any Americans political leanings. They want us all dead.

Afghanistan is almost as bad as the Saudis when it comes to their restrictions on women.  It is an oppressive society.  I would hate to live there or Pakistan.  The only reason I survived in Saudi is because I lived in a small encampment that allowed me to drive my six square blocks and swim in the camp swimming pool..... and walk down the street wearing shorts.   It was a mini western environment.  But once we walked outside the camp gates..... we were covered from neck to ankles and followed the local rules.   There weren't many incentives to leave the camp!

Even within the camp we were not allowed to display Christmas decorations that could be seen from the windows of our homes.  We were allowed to have Christian services in our theater building on Friday mornings (their weekend) but no muslims were allowed into the service.  Muslims could come into the camp if they had the proper credentials.  They worked in our grocery store and other facilities.  All pork products were purchased in a small room behind the grocery store and we had to sign to purchase them.

Religion was not allowed to be discussed with Arabs.  If you spoke about Christianity to an Arab.... you were on the next flight out of the country.

Quote from: kroz on May 17, 2015, 12:36:30 PM
Afghanistan is almost as bad as the Saudis when it comes to their restrictions on women.  It is an oppressive society.  I would hate to live there or Pakistan.  The only reason I survived in Saudi is because I lived in a small encampment that allowed me to drive my six square blocks and swim in the camp swimming pool..... and walk down the street wearing shorts.   It was a mini western environment.  But once we walked outside the camp gates..... we were covered from neck to ankles and followed the local rules.   There weren't many incentives to leave the camp!

Even within the camp we were not allowed to display Christmas decorations that could be seen from the windows of our homes.  We were allowed to have Christian services in our theater building on Friday mornings (their weekend) but no muslims were allowed into the service.  Muslims could come into the camp if they had the proper credentials.  They worked in our grocery store and other facilities.  All pork products were purchased in a small room behind the grocery store and we had to sign to purchase them.

Religion was not allowed to be discussed with Arabs.  If you spoke about Christianity to an Arab.... you were on the next flight out of the country.

My husband was in the ME during much of his enlistment.  Before they went into those countries, they had classes on the culture mean't to educate them on the behavior that the AF expected of them. 

Quote from: s3779m on May 17, 2015, 11:19:08 AM
  Are you talking about the Iran that wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth? Is that raciest also, or is it only members of this forum who are raciest. I don't seem to recall the saudis threating to wipe out Israel.

Iran and Israel have both threatened to destroy eachother.

Iran has offered peace to Israel and the US numerous times and have been rejected.

The Iranian regime is a horrible group of monsters.  But compared to Saudi Arabia, they are a beacon of freedom.

Iran is also the most pro-western country in the Middle East.  I mean in terms of its people.  They play rock and roll, watch our movies etc. 

Saudi Arabia is a far worse nation then Iran and their religous law is virtually the same as ISIS.

Quote from: steve folkster on May 17, 2015, 01:02:46 PM
Iran and Israel have both threatened to destroy eachother.

Iran has offered peace to Israel and the US numerous times and have been rejected.

The Iranian regime is a horrible group of monsters.  But compared to Saudi Arabia, they are a beacon of freedom.

Iran is also the most pro-western country in the Middle East.  I mean in terms of its people.  They play rock and roll, watch our movies etc. 

Saudi Arabia is a far worse nation then Iran and their religous law is virtually the same as ISIS.

What planet are you on?

Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel numerous times.  They have NO desire to see Israel survive as a nation.

Yes, the youth of Iran are western in their thinking but not the leadership.  And frankly, it doesn't matter what the people want.  It is the leadership that steers the ship.  So, debating the citizenry is moot.  They are powerless lemmings.

As long as the Irani leadership remains in the hands of radical muslims, Israel is not safe.

Quote from: kroz on May 17, 2015, 01:38:14 PM
What planet are you on?

Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel numerous times.  They have NO desire to see Israel survive as a nation.

Yes, the youth of Iran are western in their thinking but not the leadership.  And frankly, it doesn't matter what the people want.  It is the leadership that steers the ship.  So, debating the citizenry is moot.  They are powerless lemmings.

As long as the Irani leadership remains in the hands of radical muslims, Israel is not safe.

Iran has offered peace to israel numerous times and theri statements of destroying Israel are to cover up the fact that they suck a you know what at running a country.  They are rehortic.

The CIA just finished its review of Iran this year.  They conluded that Iran's strategic posture is completely dfensive and that thier military expenditures are low even by the regions standards.  They said the Iranian leadership seeks diplomatic ends to crisies.  Thats the CIA not me.

In 2003, Iran offered to join support for the two sto state solution and stop supporting Hezbollah, etc and offered a full peace treaty with the US and Israel.  Both refused.

The way to get the Iranian mullahs out is to stop threatening them.  Israel threatened to wipe Iran off the map with nuclear weapons long before the speech you referenced. 

Iran is gross government.  No doubt.  But they look live freedom loving democrats compared to Saudi Arabia.  They have provided the US with intelligencev that helped thwart terrorist attacks and dont fund ISIS style idelogy with the Saudis.

If the US offered Iran peace ont he condition that they recognize Israel.  They would accept in a heartbeat.  At least according to the CIA.

The US also supported Sadaam when he killed a half a million Iranians with chemcial weapons in the 80s.  We supported the shah who killed 100000 for 25 years.  We overthrew their democracy in 1953 to put the shah in.  We shot down a civilian plan of theirs as part of our efforts to support sadaam. 

Who has been attacking who?

Quote from: steve folkster on May 17, 2015, 01:48:51 PM
Iran has offered peace to israel numerous times and theri statements of destroying Israel are to cover up the fact that they suck a you know what at running a country.  They are rehortic.

The CIA just finished its review of Iran this year.  They conluded that Iran's strategic posture is completely dfensive and that thier military expenditures are low even by the regions standards.  They said the Iranian leadership seeks diplomatic ends to crisies.  Thats the CIA not me.

In 2003, Iran offered to join support for the two sto state solution and stop supporting Hezbollah, etc and offered a full peace treaty with the US and Israel.  Both refused.

The way to get the Iranian mullahs out is to stop threatening them.  Israel threatened to wipe Iran off the map with nuclear weapons long before the speech you referenced. 

Iran is gross government.  No doubt.  But they look live freedom loving democrats compared to Saudi Arabia.  They have provided the US with intelligencev that helped thwart terrorist attacks and dont fund ISIS style idelogy with the Saudis.

If the US offered Iran peace ont he condition that they recognize Israel.  They would accept in a heartbeat.  At least according to the CIA.

The US also supported Sadaam when he killed a half a million Iranians with chemcial weapons in the 80s.  We supported the shah who killed 100000 for 25 years.  We overthrew their democracy in 1953 to put the shah in.  We shot down a civilian plan of theirs as part of our efforts to support sadaam. 

Who has been attacking who?

Iran may "say" they want peace..... but they are just buying time until they get their nuclear arsenal.  They will not hesitate to wipe Israel off the map.  THAT is not rhetoric.  They have a deep seated hatred for the Jews.

....... and they have long funded the Palestinian war against Israel!!   Any hot air statements to the contrary are false!  They will never stop fighting Israel..... either by proxy or directly.

Quote from: kroz on May 17, 2015, 01:57:41 PM
Iran may "say" they want peace..... but they are just buying time until they get their nuclear arsenal.  They will not hesitate to wipe Israel off the map.  THAT is not rhetoric.  They have a deep seated hatred for the Jews.

....... and they have long funded the Palestinian war against Israel!!   Any hot air statements to the contrary are false!  They will never stop fighting Israel..... either by proxy or directly.

You realize Israel has a nuclear arsenal correct?  Are you suggesting that Iran is trying to get nukes to nuke iran knowing they will be destroyed off the face of the map?

The aytaollahs are some ugly people.  But there is no indication they want to comitt suicide and in the process destroy the coutnry they own.

Further, as I said, Mossad and the CIA have the opposite assesments of you.  WHy should I think you know more then them?

Quote from: steve folkster on May 17, 2015, 01:02:46 PM
Iran and Israel have both threatened to destroy eachother.

Iran has offered peace to Israel and the US numerous times and have been rejected.

The Iranian regime is a horrible group of monsters.  But compared to Saudi Arabia, they are a beacon of freedom.

Iran is also the most pro-western country in the Middle East.  I mean in terms of its people.  They play rock and roll, watch our movies etc. 

Saudi Arabia is a far worse nation then Iran and their religous law is virtually the same as ISIS.

Thats kinda of like comparing hitler to stalin and declaring one of them a saint based on your opinion. But who knows, maybe the iran people can be playing their rock and roll while their leaders nuke Israel.

Quote from: s3779m on May 17, 2015, 02:05:04 PM
Thats kinda of like comparing hitler to stalin and declaring one of them a saint based on your opinion. But who knows, maybe the iran people can be playing their rock and roll while their leaders nuke Israel.

This is a funny comment.

Read what I wrote to quote exactly again: "The Iranian regime is a horrible group of monsters.  But compared to Saudi Arabia, they are a beacon of freedom."

I am calling them a horrible group of mosnters.  I obviously dont really think they are a beacon of freedom.  I cant beleive anyone would draw that conlusion.

As I said, the CIA, and mossad do not think that Iran has nukes or wants to aquire them.  They as I said describe the Iranian military posture as defensive and designed towards negotiatiing conflicts. 

Israel has nukes.  SO in order for your poitn to be true you thinki the ayatalooahs are suicidal and are just going to nuke Israel even though they mean the coutnry they own will be nuked back and destroyed.

Give me a break.