New York Times condemns criticizing Nazis

On May 7, 2015, the New York Times published an editorial condemning the "Draw Muhammad" contest in Garland TX.  To put the Times' view into its true perspective, here is the full text of the editorial, with just a few substitutions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/07/opinion/free-speech-vs-hate-speech.html?_r=0

The Opinion Pages | Editorial

Free Speech vs. Hate Speech

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

MAY 7, 1939

There is no question that images ridiculing world leaders, however offensive they may be to followers, qualify as protected free speech in the United States and most Western democracies. There is also no question that however offensive the images, they do not justify murder, and that it is incumbent on leaders of all ideologies to make this clear to their followers.

But it is equally clear that the Hitler Art Exhibit and Contest in Garland, Tex., was not really about free speech. It was an exercise in bigotry and hatred posing as a blow for freedom.

That distinction is critical because the conflicts that have erupted over depictions of Chancellor Hitler, most notably the massacre of staff members at the French satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo in January by two Nazi brothers, have generated a furious and often confused debate about free speech versus hate speech. The current dispute at the American chapter of the PEN literary organization over its selection of Charlie Hebdo for a freedom of expression courage award is a case in point — hundreds of PEN's members have opposed the selection for "valorizing selectively offensive material."

Charlie Hebdo is a publication whose stock in trade has always been graphic satires of politicians and religions, whether Catholic, Jewish or Nazi. By contrast, Pamela Geller, the anti-Nazi campaigner behind the Texas event, has a long history of declarations and actions motivated purely by hatred for Nazis.

Whether fighting against a planned residential facility near Auschwitz, posting to her venomous blog Atlas Shrugs or organizing the event in Garland, Ms. Geller revels in assailing Naziism in terms reminiscent of virulent racism or anti-Semitism. She achieved her provocative goal in Garland — the event was attacked by two Nazis who were shot to death by a traffic officer before they killed anyone.

Those two men were would-be murderers. But their thwarted attack, or the murderous rampage of the Charlie Hebdo killers, or even the greater threat posed by the barbaric killers of the SS or the Brown Shirts, cannot justify blatantly Naziphobic provocations like the Garland event. These can serve only to exacerbate tensions and to give extremists more fuel.

Some of those who draw cartoons of Chancellor Hitler may earnestly believe that they are striking a blow for freedom of expression, though it is hard to see how that goal is advanced by inflicting deliberate anguish on millions of devout Nazis who have nothing to do with terrorism. As for the Garland event, to pretend that it was motivated by anything other than hate is simply hogwash.

(End of editorial.)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now back to my comments:

Obviously, the New York Times would never say the above if it was about Nazis.  But they did say it about someone who is many times worse!

Some might object that it's unfair to compare Muslims with Nazis.  Yes, it IS unfair - to the Nazis!  Islam has murdered far more people than Nazis - PLUS Stalin, plus Mao, plus all the Inquisitions and Crusades!  Actually, the Crusades would be more accurately described as "rescue missions."  All together, Islam has murdered somewhere around 270 million souls.  The murderous record of Islam is documented at:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/05/the_greatest_murder_machine_in_history.html

Does that mean that individual Muslims are a threat?  Maybe, maybe not.  A single Muslim is probably not a threat to life in the short term, but Islam in general definitely IS a threat to life in the long term!  To see more about how that works, see:  "Islamization - Conquest by Percent"  at:

http://www.cpnlive.com/forum/post/1528527   

Not only have Nazis murdered only a tiny fraction of the number of people the Muslims have, but Nazis compare favorably with Muslims in other ways, too.  For example, Nazis went out of their way to preserve cultural treasures.  They voluntarily abandoned both Paris and Rome rather than let the war damage them.  (Yes, they stole some of the treasures, too, but at least they didn't wantonly destroy them, like Muslims are doing these days in Afghanistan and Syria.)

Several years ago, I searched for a list of Islamic terrorist attacks since 1980 or so.  I expected to find a list of twenty or so attacks, like the Khobar Tower in Saudi Arabia, and the embassy bombings in Africa.  What I found is  www.thereligionofpeace.com,  who currently has listed 26 THOUSAND terrorist attacks - just since 9-11! 


For seventy years now, people have used the name "Hitler" to denote "ultimate evil" as in candidates saying, "my opponent is like Hitler" in some regard.  How does Hitler compare with Muhammad? 

Consider:  Muhammad actually DID achieve what Hitler was TRYING to achieve:  Muhammad actually DID establish a "thousand year reich!"  Hitler lasted only 13 years in power.  Muhammad's reign is now at 1400 years!  And still growing!

We've already mentioned that Hitler killed only a tiny fraction of the number of people that Muhammad did, and that Hitler preserved cultural treasures, where Muhammad's followers destroy them.  Also, Muslims practice female genital mutilation - everywhere they go - not just in Africa!  They also execute the VICTIMS of rape, not the perpetrators!  Muslims force young girls - under age ten - into marriage, and then throw them away because their bodies have been damaged by having to bear children several years before being physically strong enough to do so. 

These are not just isolated examples, or aberrations practiced by radicals who have strayed away from "true Islam."  These evil practices - and many more - are literally following the examples set by Muhammad himself!  The fact that Muhammad himself did these sort of things are all documented in Islam's own official books!  (The Quran is NOT a counterpart of the Bible.  Its counterpart would be the words of Jesus lifted out of context and grouped by subject.)  Islam's official books include the Hadith (the word is like "sheep" - it's the same word for either singular or plural) which are second hand accounts of things Muhammad did and said.  Another official book is Muhammad's biography, "Sirah Rasul Allah" which translates to, "journey of the prophet of Allah." 

A list of dozens of vile practices of Muhammad (each one documented in official Islamic literature) can be seen at:

http://www.bibleandquran.com/prophet-mohamed-sinful.htm


About the "Draw Muhammad" contest:

The event accomplished exactly what its title said.  The contest literally "drew Muhammad."  "Drew" as in "attracted."  The event attracted followers of Muhammad, who behaved (or tried to behave) exactly as Muhammad did.  Muhammad himself ordered the execution of two women in Mecca who, several years earlier, had composed songs mocking the "prophet."  All the other residents of Mecca were allowed to repent of their earlier rejection of him (and were beheaded if they didn't repent) but these two women were not allowed to repent.  They were executed without any possibility of mercy.

This is a good illustration of what some preacher said a few hundred years ago, "If the Devil will not yield to scripture, flout him.  That proud spirit cannot endure mocking."  As is the Devil, so is his prophet, Muhammad.  Neither of those proud spirits can withstand ridicule.

What the apostle Paul wrote about the Pharisees in Colossians 2:20-23 describes Islam well: 

20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"?
22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
(New International Version)

Likewise, Islam does nothing to deal with the inward person, but deals only with outward behavior (and does that very harshly.)  Islam puts ALL the blame for sexual sin on women, and considers men to be helpless puppets of their natural lusts.  Islam does deal with theft very harshly.  They cut off people's hands!  That's what has made it possible for Islam to survive for so long.  It DOES impose discipline on society.  Pure evil cannot exist for long.  Pure evil will always destroy itself in chaos.  Evil can exist only if it has some good mixed in with it to preserve it.  In fact, EVERY evil thing is a perversion of some good thing!  Theft is a perversion of material blessing.  Lust is a perversion of love.  Pride is a perversion of a good conscience.


"Good Muslims" are like "good Nazis."  Each one might be peaceful and honest in his own personal life, but support a very wicked cause.  The Bible says in 2 John, verses 7-11:

7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.
11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

"You are who you support." 

Jesus said that anyone who gives any help to a prophet, because he is a prophet, will receive a prophet's reward.  The reverse is also true.  Anyone who gives any help to a false prophet, because he claims

to be a prophet, will receive a false prophet's punishment.  You can give help, in the name of Christ, to non-Christians who are in need, but do NOT give any support to anti-Christian organizations!

Quote from: je_freedom on June 08, 2015, 09:45:59 PM
New York Times condemns criticizing Nazis

On May 7, 2015, the New York Times published an editorial condemning the "Draw Muhammad" contest in Garland TX.  To put the Times' view into its true perspective, here is the full text of the editorial, with just a few substitutions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/07/opinion/free-speech-vs-hate-speech.html?_r=0

The Opinion Pages | Editorial

Free Speech vs. Hate Speech

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

MAY 7, 1939

There is no question that images ridiculing world leaders, however offensive they may be to followers, qualify as protected free speech in the United States and most Western democracies. There is also no question that however offensive the images, they do not justify murder, and that it is incumbent on leaders of all ideologies to make this clear to their followers.

But it is equally clear that the Hitler Art Exhibit and Contest in Garland, Tex., was not really about free speech. It was an exercise in bigotry and hatred posing as a blow for freedom.

That distinction is critical because the conflicts that have erupted over depictions of Chancellor Hitler, most notably the massacre of staff members at the French satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo in January by two Nazi brothers, have generated a furious and often confused debate about free speech versus hate speech. The current dispute at the American chapter of the PEN literary organization over its selection of Charlie Hebdo for a freedom of expression courage award is a case in point — hundreds of PEN's members have opposed the selection for "valorizing selectively offensive material."

Charlie Hebdo is a publication whose stock in trade has always been graphic satires of politicians and religions, whether Catholic, Jewish or Nazi. By contrast, Pamela Geller, the anti-Nazi campaigner behind the Texas event, has a long history of declarations and actions motivated purely by hatred for Nazis.

Whether fighting against a planned residential facility near Auschwitz, posting to her venomous blog Atlas Shrugs or organizing the event in Garland, Ms. Geller revels in assailing Naziism in terms reminiscent of virulent racism or anti-Semitism. She achieved her provocative goal in Garland — the event was attacked by two Nazis who were shot to death by a traffic officer before they killed anyone.

Those two men were would-be murderers. But their thwarted attack, or the murderous rampage of the Charlie Hebdo killers, or even the greater threat posed by the barbaric killers of the SS or the Brown Shirts, cannot justify blatantly Naziphobic provocations like the Garland event. These can serve only to exacerbate tensions and to give extremists more fuel.

Some of those who draw cartoons of Chancellor Hitler may earnestly believe that they are striking a blow for freedom of expression, though it is hard to see how that goal is advanced by inflicting deliberate anguish on millions of devout Nazis who have nothing to do with terrorism. As for the Garland event, to pretend that it was motivated by anything other than hate is simply hogwash.

(End of editorial.)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now back to my comments:

Obviously, the New York Times would never say the above if it was about Nazis.  But they did say it about someone who is many times worse!

Some might object that it's unfair to compare Muslims with Nazis.  Yes, it IS unfair - to the Nazis!  Islam has murdered far more people than Nazis - PLUS Stalin, plus Mao, plus all the Inquisitions and Crusades!  Actually, the Crusades would be more accurately described as "rescue missions."  All together, Islam has murdered somewhere around 270 million souls.  The murderous record of Islam is documented at:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/05/the_greatest_murder_machine_in_history.html

Does that mean that individual Muslims are a threat?  Maybe, maybe not.  A single Muslim is probably not a threat to life in the short term, but Islam in general definitely IS a threat to life in the long term!  To see more about how that works, see:  "Islamization - Conquest by Percent"  at:

http://www.cpnlive.com/forum/post/1528527   

Not only have Nazis murdered only a tiny fraction of the number of people the Muslims have, but Nazis compare favorably with Muslims in other ways, too.  For example, Nazis went out of their way to preserve cultural treasures.  They voluntarily abandoned both Paris and Rome rather than let the war damage them.  (Yes, they stole some of the treasures, too, but at least they didn't wantonly destroy them, like Muslims are doing these days in Afghanistan and Syria.)

Several years ago, I searched for a list of Islamic terrorist attacks since 1980 or so.  I expected to find a list of twenty or so attacks, like the Khobar Tower in Saudi Arabia, and the embassy bombings in Africa.  What I found is  www.thereligionofpeace.com,  who currently has listed 26 THOUSAND terrorist attacks - just since 9-11! 


For seventy years now, people have used the name "Hitler" to denote "ultimate evil" as in candidates saying, "my opponent is like Hitler" in some regard.  How does Hitler compare with Muhammad? 

Consider:  Muhammad actually DID achieve what Hitler was TRYING to achieve:  Muhammad actually DID establish a "thousand year reich!"  Hitler lasted only 13 years in power.  Muhammad's reign is now at 1400 years!  And still growing!

We've already mentioned that Hitler killed only a tiny fraction of the number of people that Muhammad did, and that Hitler preserved cultural treasures, where Muhammad's followers destroy them.  Also, Muslims practice female genital mutilation - everywhere they go - not just in Africa!  They also execute the VICTIMS of rape, not the perpetrators!  Muslims force young girls - under age ten - into marriage, and then throw them away because their bodies have been damaged by having to bear children several years before being physically strong enough to do so. 

These are not just isolated examples, or aberrations practiced by radicals who have strayed away from "true Islam."  These evil practices - and many more - are literally following the examples set by Muhammad himself!  The fact that Muhammad himself did these sort of things are all documented in Islam's own official books!  (The Quran is NOT a counterpart of the Bible.  Its counterpart would be the words of Jesus lifted out of context and grouped by subject.)  Islam's official books include the Hadith (the word is like "sheep" - it's the same word for either singular or plural) which are second hand accounts of things Muhammad did and said.  Another official book is Muhammad's biography, "Sirah Rasul Allah" which translates to, "journey of the prophet of Allah." 

A list of dozens of vile practices of Muhammad (each one documented in official Islamic literature) can be seen at:

http://www.bibleandquran.com/prophet-mohamed-sinful.htm


About the "Draw Muhammad" contest:

The event accomplished exactly what its title said.  The contest literally "drew Muhammad."  "Drew" as in "attracted."  The event attracted followers of Muhammad, who behaved (or tried to behave) exactly as Muhammad did.  Muhammad himself ordered the execution of two women in Mecca who, several years earlier, had composed songs mocking the "prophet."  All the other residents of Mecca were allowed to repent of their earlier rejection of him (and were beheaded if they didn't repent) but these two women were not allowed to repent.  They were executed without any possibility of mercy.

This is a good illustration of what some preacher said a few hundred years ago, "If the Devil will not yield to scripture, flout him.  That proud spirit cannot endure mocking."  As is the Devil, so is his prophet, Muhammad.  Neither of those proud spirits can withstand ridicule.

What the apostle Paul wrote about the Pharisees in Colossians 2:20-23 describes Islam well: 

20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"?
22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
(New International Version)

Likewise, Islam does nothing to deal with the inward person, but deals only with outward behavior (and does that very harshly.)  Islam puts ALL the blame for sexual sin on women, and considers men to be helpless puppets of their natural lusts.  Islam does deal with theft very harshly.  They cut off people's hands!  That's what has made it possible for Islam to survive for so long.  It DOES impose discipline on society.  Pure evil cannot exist for long.  Pure evil will always destroy itself in chaos.  Evil can exist only if it has some good mixed in with it to preserve it.  In fact, EVERY evil thing is a perversion of some good thing!  Theft is a perversion of material blessing.  Lust is a perversion of love.  Pride is a perversion of a good conscience.


"Good Muslims" are like "good Nazis."  Each one might be peaceful and honest in his own personal life, but support a very wicked cause.  The Bible says in 2 John, verses 7-11:

7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.
11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

"You are who you support." 

Jesus said that anyone who gives any help to a prophet, because he is a prophet, will receive a prophet's reward.  The reverse is also true.  Anyone who gives any help to a false prophet, because he claims

to be a prophet, will receive a false prophet's punishment.  You can give help, in the name of Christ, to non-Christians who are in need, but do NOT give any support to anti-Christian organizations!

The fact that you think you know how many people Islam killed is a comical joke.

For example, under your logic, one could argue that the US killed about 200 million people before 1900 alone.  Some estimates are that the US killed 100-150 million native Americans and 50 million black slaves.  These estimates vary of course, but what doesn't is your intelligence.

There's a difference?

Quote from: rightwinger on June 09, 2015, 09:00:03 AMSome estimates are that the US killed 100-150 million native Americans and 50 million black slaves.  These estimates vary of course, but what doesn't is your intelligence.

I'd love to see the links for those estimates.

Especially since the U.S. only got 4% of the 12 million slaves in the North American slave trade.  It's also estimated that about 1.85 million Native Americans were killed between 1500 and 1900.  Americans were not the only people here during that time fighting with Indians.  Many tribes whiped each other out. 

Where was the NY Times during the New York City "Art Exposition" featuring "Piss Christ".  I'm guessing most of the NY Times reporters ("journalists") loved that one and "what the artist was trying to say" became the favorite topic of the Elite Cocktail Parties for months...

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2012/sep/28/andres-serrano-piss-christ-new-york

The left love to stage events using some outrageous exhibition of free speech in order to promote their agenda.  They hate it when someone on the other side uses the same techiques to draw attention to something that the left chooses to ignore, such as the violent, extremism af even those the media calls moderates, when it comes to even the depiction of their Pedophile Phophet!

Quote from: Leftwinger on June 09, 2015, 09:00:03 AM
The fact that you think you know how many people Islam killed is a comical joke.

For example, under your logic, one could argue that the US killed about 200 million people before 1900 alone.  Some estimates are that the US killed 100-150 million native Americans and 50 million black slaves.  These estimates vary of course, but what doesn't is your intelligence.

Are you suggesting that the killings by radical Islamists are insignificant?

Quote from: Dori on June 09, 2015, 09:23:33 AM
I'd love to see the links for those estimates.

Especially since the U.S. only got 4% of the 12 million slaves in the North American slave trade.  It's also estimated that about 1.85 million Native Americans were killed between 1500 and 1900.  Americans were not the only people here during that time fighting with Indians.  Many tribes whiped each other out.

Let me guess. Leftist opinion pieces?

Quote from: Leftwinger on June 09, 2015, 09:00:03 AM
The fact that you think you know how many people Islam killed is a comical joke.

For example, under your logic, one could argue that the US killed about 200 million people before 1900 alone.  Some estimates are that the US killed 100-150 million native Americans and 50 million black slaves.  These estimates vary of course, but what doesn't is your intelligence.

I assume you have links to back everything up, we are waiting.

Quote from: je_freedom on June 08, 2015, 09:45:59 PM
  For example, Nazis went out of their way to preserve cultural treasures.  They voluntarily abandoned both Paris and Rome rather than let the war damage them.  (Yes, they stole some of the treasures, too, but at least they didn't wantonly destroy them

Why destroy cities where nazies were having good time, during the WWII? I could say a lot about the way nazies "preserve cultural treasures" on the Eastern front in Soviet Union... But of course, what kind of cultural treasures could be in  barbarian Russia.

 But, forget about Russia, nazies for example, planned to destroy old polish capitol Krakow:
http://en.cyplive.com/ru/news/osvobozhdenie-polshi-chelovek-spasshiy-krakov.html
"...in 1945 year old Polish city survived by two people. The first - a Marshal Konev, whose descendants residents rescued them from the devastation of the city "rewarded" very peculiar. Street named in honor of Marshal Liberator, renamed the street fighters of the Home Army, and his monument was dismantled. Liars trying to deny that Konev, prohibit the use of heavy artillery in the assault, for the salvation of the city..."
"...On the second man and his contribution to the salvation of Krakow Poles generally silent. Although the city has survived thanks to him. This man and his comrades organized in January  1945, an explosion Jagiellonian castle in the town of Nowy Sacz Krakow province, where the Germans created a huge warehouse of explosives, planning to blow Krakow, bridges over the river Dunajec and Rozhnovsky dam. The city would be flooded, and the rapid advance of the Red Army broke through the front stalled.
Alexey Botya - name of the person under whose command the Soviet troops ahead of the Nazis and blowing up explosives storage, and along with him for about 400 Nazis, saved Krakow..."
But maybe nazies took care of their own cultural treasures? Not really - When defeat was seen very clear Hitler gave order to destroy everything in Germany on the way of advancing Red army, he even said, the best outcome for germans would be to die, cos' they lost and because of this, they do not deserve to live.

Quote from: Leftwinger on June 09, 2015, 09:00:03 AM
The fact that you think you know how many people Islam killed is a comical joke.

For example, under your logic, one could argue that the US killed about 200 million people before 1900 alone.  Some estimates are that the US killed 100-150 million native Americans and 50 million black slaves.  These estimates vary of course, but what doesn't is your intelligence.

Only a rabid, American hating, Commie loving, Leftist with a room temperature I.Q. with no working knowledge of American history would make such claims.

Some one like you...

Quote from: Darth Fife on June 09, 2015, 04:20:18 PM
Only a rabid, American hating, Commie loving, Leftist with a room temperature I.Q. with no working knowledge of American history would make such claims.

Some one like you...

Let it all out Darth, don't hold back.   

Interesting considering Hitler's relationship with the Arabs...

Quote from: The Boo Man... on June 09, 2015, 06:54:17 PM
Interesting considering Hitler's relationship with the Arabs...

Good point, considering their mutual hatred of Jews.  The Muslim Brotherhood (Obama's buddies) were part of the Axis powers.

Have you ever read or heard about Robert Baer, the ex CIA guy?  Just ran across him, don't know what to think. 

Quote from: Dori on June 09, 2015, 09:14:31 PM
Good point, considering their mutual hatred of Jews.  The Muslim Brotherhood (Obama's buddies) were part of the Axis powers.

Have you ever read or heard about Robert Baer, the ex CIA guy?  Just ran across him, don't know what to think.

Actually, the Muscum and the Nazi's were good friends....As were the Muscum and the Kaiser in WW1

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/