Quote from: Bad water BILLY on June 15, 2012, 08:45:39 PM

Ever stop and think that with enough Mexican illegals they'll turn our country in to the same type of shithole?


Billy

They have already made some pretty good strides to that end. 

There is talk in Washington that a law suit will be filed to stop this onslaught on our country.

I don't think it's legal for Obama to do this.

Quote from: rich_t on June 16, 2012, 02:01:15 PM
They have already made some pretty good strides to that end.

That was rather my point...when you have illegals as 30% of the prison population in some states something is desperately wrong.


Billy

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on June 15, 2012, 01:15:45 PM
Wait: if they were children when their parents brought them over, why should they be punished for it?

I was the child of two American parents. Good for me, that's my luck.

Jose is the child of criminals who entered this country illegally, and should therefore be considered an illegal immigrant. Not so good for him, that's his luck.

Jose deserves the fate his parents crafted for him -- deportation.

Even the WaPo is starting to question what will be the effect of all these new entrants on our job market. Is there anybody in the GOP smart enough to make a commercial about Obama importing illegals to compete with American workers for jobs? BTW, why do they keep portraying Latino activists as representative of Latinos as a group. Latinos as a group - having jumped through hoops to get here legally - don't want to compete with a bunch of illegals.

Quote from: tbone0106 on June 16, 2012, 07:27:49 PM
I was the child of two American parents. Good for me, that's my luck.

Jose is the child of criminals who entered this country illegally, and should therefore be considered an illegal immigrant. Not so good for him, that's his luck.

So basically, "I know Jose is being fucked over for something he didn't do, and that this is a result of luck rather than any fault of his own, but who gives a shit, it isn't me".

Quote
Jose deserves the fate his parents crafted for him -- deportation.

Wha-what kind of logic is it that you deserve the fate that your parents crafted for you before you were even born?  By this logic, abortion is perfectly ethical, because you "deserve the fate your parents crafted for you".

 Maybe I can get Michelles recipe for Menudo. 

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 29, 2012, 05:25:43 PM
So basically, "I know Jose is being fucked over for something he didn't do, and that this is a result of luck rather than any fault of his own, but who gives a shit, it isn't me".

Wha-what kind of logic is it that you deserve the fate that your parents crafted for you before you were even born?  By this logic, abortion is perfectly ethical, because you "deserve the fate your parents crafted for you".

By what mechanism, by what logic can you argue that Jose can stay? Jose is an invader. Jose doesn't belong here. Jose is legally a resident of another country.

How can you possibly argue that Jose has the "right" to stay? How do you justify the cost to others of keeping Jose here? By what legal authorization can you force me, at my cost and at the potential point of a gun, to accommodate Jose?

Quote from: tbone0106 on July 29, 2012, 06:48:57 PM
By what mechanism, by what logic can you argue that Jose can stay? Jose is an invader. Jose doesn't belong here. Jose is legally a resident of another country.

So?  Jose did not "invade" the US by his own choosing, so why should he be punished for it?

Quote
How can you possibly argue that Jose has the "right" to stay?

Because he grew up here.

QuoteHow do you justify the cost to others of keeping Jose here?

What cost?  If Jose is granted amnesty and citizenship, he will eventually grow up and pay taxes.

QuoteBy what legal authorization can you force me, at my cost and at the potential point of a gun, to accommodate Jose?

We aren't debating legalities here.  I'm simply arguing that it isn't ethical to force Jose, at the potential point of a gun, to leave the United States.

If the suspiciously named "Jose" were named "Christian", I highly doubt there would be an issue.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 30, 2012, 11:54:37 AM
So?  Jose did not "invade" the US by his own choosing, so why should he be punished for it?

Because he grew up here.

What cost?  If Jose is granted amnesty and citizenship, he will eventually grow up and pay taxes.

We aren't debating legalities here.  I'm simply arguing that it isn't ethical to force Jose, at the potential point of a gun, to leave the United States.

If the suspiciously named "Jose" were named "Christian", I highly doubt there would be an issue.

But you completely failed to even attempt to answer my basic question. How is it my problem -- NO MATTER how Jose got here -- that Jose is here? How is it, and why is it, suddenly my responsibility to see that Jose has an education, health care, food to eat, etc.? Perhaps Jose shouldn't be punished because he finds himself here, but how does that translate into making it OK that I'm punished for Jose's presence here? Why does the existence of Jose on American soil obligate ME to pay for his next meal, his next doctor's visit, his education, and so on? Why are YOU willing to do so (assuming that you are, and I would assume so, based on your posts)?

Your attempt at skewering me with racism is rather lame too. If our southern (or northern, or eastern, or western) border were with say, Saudi Arabia, my post would contain references to "Achmed." So what? Get it through your head, sonny. We don't have a problem with foreigners flooding over the Canadian border, or mobbing the east or west coast. We have a problem with Latinos flooding over the SOUTHERN border. A LOT of them are named "Jose." Are you with me now?

Quote from: tbone0106 on July 30, 2012, 05:29:19 PM
But you completely failed to even attempt to answer my basic question. How is it my problem -- NO MATTER how Jose got here -- that Jose is here?

Translation: why should I give a shit about anyone other than myself?   

QuoteHow is it, and why is it, suddenly my responsibility to see that Jose has an education, health care, food to eat, etc.?

Jose will eventually grow up and pay taxes. 

QuotePerhaps Jose shouldn't be punished because he finds himself here, but how does that translate into making it OK that I'm punished for Jose's presence here?

You're "punished" every time a baby is born.  Why should you be punished because another family chose to have kids?

QuoteWhy does the existence of Jose on American soil obligate ME to pay for his next meal, his next doctor's visit, his education, and so on? Why are YOU willing to do so (assuming that you are, and I would assume so, based on your posts)?
Your attempt at skewering me with racism is rather lame too. If our southern (or northern, or eastern, or western) border were with say, Saudi Arabia, my post would contain references to "Achmed." So what? Get it through your head, sonny. We don't have a problem with foreigners flooding over the Canadian border, or mobbing the east or west coast. We have a problem with Latinos flooding over the SOUTHERN border. A LOT of them are named "Jose." Are you with me now?

Don't kid yourself.  Even if you personally are clean, you can't possibly argue that the craze over illegal immigration would be as big if the source were, for example, Canada.  Mind you, there are hundreds of thousands of non-hispanic illegals annually that nobody gives a damn about.  It's similar to tea party nuts that come to Obama's speeches armed with firearms, and your conservative brethren passionately defend their "2nd amendment rights";

could you imagine if a dozen black people come to Romney's concession speech armed with AK-47s?  The right would fully support their arrest and detainment, and accuse liberals of being violent revolutionaries, gracefully dancing around the race issue.

Interesting how ANY lawfully licensed CCW gun owner is automatically lumped in with the Tea Party in this lying child's mind.

Damn, that's childish. And transparent.

QuoteDon't kid yourself.  Even if you personally are clean, you can't possibly argue that the craze over illegal immigration would be as big if the source were, for example, Canada.  Mind you, there are hundreds of thousands of non-hispanic illegals annually that nobody gives a damn about.  It's similar to tea party nuts that come to Obama's speeches armed with firearms, and your conservative brethren passionately defend their "2nd amendment rights";

could you imagine if a dozen black people come to Romney's concession speech armed with AK-47s?  The right would fully support their arrest and detainment, and accuse liberals of being violent revolutionaries, gracefully dancing around the race issue.

Note, he can't even grasp the possibility that black people at a Romney rally might be supporters of Romney, and ths don't attend on doing him any harm. What's fascinating, is that he doesn't even realize how arrogant, not to mention bigoted it is to believe he understands the motives of someone simply based on the color of their skin. I think I'll refer to them from this point on as Libigots. In any case, NO ONE is allowed around a candidate armed, Since the Wallace shooting, all Presidential candidates have Secret Service protection.

Quote from: mdgiles on July 31, 2012, 06:58:44 AM
Note, he can't even grasp the possibility that black people at a Romney rally might be supporters of Romney, and ths don't attend on doing him any harm. What's fascinating, is that he doesn't even realize how arrogant, not to mention bigoted it is to believe he understands the motives of someone simply based on the color of their skin. I think I'll refer to them from this point on as Libigots. In any case, NO ONE is allowed around a candidate armed, Since the Wallace shooting, all Presidential candidates have Secret Service protection.

You think a shot of Alfonzo Rachel might reach him at his relative level, or should we go for the gusto with a few clips from Herman Cain? 

Quote from: mdgiles on July 31, 2012, 06:58:44 AM
Note, he can't even grasp the possibility that black people at a Romney rally might be supporters of Romney, and ths don't attend on doing him any harm. What's fascinating, is that he doesn't even realize how arrogant, not to mention RACIST it is to believe he understands the motives of someone simply based on the color of their skin. I think I'll refer to them from this point on as Libigots. In any case, NO ONE is allowed around a candidate armed, Since the Wallace shooting, all Presidential candidates have Secret Service protection.

FIFY