Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2012, 03:24:52 PM
Boy, when you lose a debate, you really run for left field, don't ya?

Keep showing shakespearean levels of dramatic irony, Solar.  Tell me again when I argued that sports should not exist?  Oh, right; you seem to think "sports athletes are overpaid" means "sports athletes should not get paid at all".

It's like how you think "wealth redistribution" means "he's a Marxist!  A marxist!"   

Quote from: Jasmine on July 31, 2012, 04:12:58 PM
Not only that, but crybaby fails to understand that pro athletes are the absolute BEST of the BEST. Out of tens of thousands of people who play basketball, for example, only 450 get to play in the NBA at any given time. They are the cream of the crop, and people are willing to pay good money to watch them display their skills. There are probably tens or even hundreds of thousands of teachers, doctors, firemen, etc. They do valuable work, sure, but they aren't special.

This would be a valid point, if top scientists, doctors and firemen were paid as much as their respective equals in the athletics industry.  The fact is that, as I've brought up before, Jonas Salk never made a fraction of Terrell Owen's salary, an inverse relationship with their net worth to society.

Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2012, 04:37:04 PM
Scifi, I'm curious, how would you remedy this, what would you do to level the playing field?

Simple, actually; reform our education system, so that we don't have high schools spending hundreds of thousands to fund sports teams when they can't afford fucking laptops.

Sport-worship has reached such a level in college sports that fanatical fans rioted in support of Joe Paterno after his sorry as was fired.  Apparently, covering up child molestation means nothing if you can win football games. 

Quote from: kramarat on July 31, 2012, 04:47:08 PM

Unions make sure that no one is any more special than anyone else. Skill means nothing. It is sad.

No doubt union leadership can be full of assholes.  Unions outgrew their usefulness long ago.  But maybe actually increasing labor protection rights would decrease the demand for unions, while simultaneously improving working conditions. 

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on August 01, 2012, 11:12:12 AM
Keep showing shakespearean levels of dramatic irony, Solar.  Tell me again when I argued that sports should not exist?  Oh, right; you seem to think "sports athletes are overpaid" means "sports athletes should not get paid at all".

It's like how you think "wealth redistribution" means "he's a Marxist!  A marxist!"   

Those are your words dumb ass, but wealth redistribution by any other name is still rooted in Marxism.

QuoteSimple, actually; reform our education system, so that we don't have high schools spending hundreds of thousands to fund sports teams when they can't afford fucking laptops.

Sport-worship has reached such a level in college sports that fanatical fans rioted in support of Joe Paterno after his sorry as was fired.  Apparently, covering up child molestation means nothing if you can win football games. 

No doubt union leadership can be full of assholes.  Unions outgrew their usefulness long ago.  But maybe actually increasing labor protection rights would decrease the demand for unions, while simultaneously improving working conditions.

First off, I am not a sports fan in anyway, but sports plays a very important role in the development of our youth and I see no need to go into details like learning to work together.

But every law is already in place, unions are essentially outdated, and are nothing more than a leach on the environment they are supposedly representing.
If schools were based on the free mkt principle, bad teachers would be out of a job and the best teachers would be making more than a 100 grand a year.

Quote from: Solar on August 01, 2012, 11:23:58 AM
Those are your words dumb ass,

I said that sports athletes are overpaid.  I never said that they shouldn't get paid at all, moron.

Do you realize that I have explained the above to you on more than five separate occasions?

Quotebut wealth redistribution by any other name is still rooted in Marxism.

Funny, because wealth redistribution outdates Marx by centuries -- whoops!

Quote
First off, I am not a sports fan in anyway, but sports plays a very important role in the development of our youth and I see no need to go into details like learning to work together.

Even if this were true, how does paying sports athletes tens of millions help?

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on August 01, 2012, 11:31:14 AM
I said that sports athletes are overpaid.  I never said that they shouldn't get paid at all, moron.

Do you realize that I have explained the above to you on more than five separate occasions?

I never said it in the first place, it was a question, not a statement!

QuoteFunny, because wealth redistribution outdates Marx by centuries -- whoops!

Regardless, it's still a Marxist ideal!

QuoteEven if this were true, how does paying sports athletes tens of millions help?

How does it hurt?

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on August 01, 2012, 11:12:12 AM
Keep showing shakespearean levels of dramatic irony, Solar.  Tell me again when I argued that sports should not exist?  Oh, right; you seem to think "sports athletes are overpaid" means "sports athletes should not get paid at all".

It's like how you think "wealth redistribution" means "he's a Marxist!  A marxist!"   

Taking from earners and spreading around is a pillar of Marxism.

Quote
This would be a valid point, if top scientists, doctors and firemen were paid as much as their respective equals in the athletics industry.  The fact is that, as I've brought up before, Jonas Salk never made a fraction of Terrell Owen's salary, an inverse relationship with their net worth to society.

First off, how much did he make?  I never saw his financials.  Second, who cares?

Quote
Simple, actually; reform our education system, so that we don't have high schools spending hundreds of thousands to fund sports teams when they can't afford fucking laptops.

The federal government has no business in school. 

Quote
Sport-worship has reached such a level in college sports that fanatical fans rioted in support of Joe Paterno after his sorry as was fired.  Apparently, covering up child molestation means nothing if you can win football games. 

Yeah, we're as crazy as soccer fans around the world.

Quote
No doubt union leadership can be full of assholes.  Unions outgrew their usefulness long ago.  But maybe actually increasing labor protection rights would decrease the demand for unions, while simultaneously improving working conditions.

Competition keeps working environments and perks improving.

Quote from: Solar on August 01, 2012, 11:35:49 AM
I never said it in the first place, it was a question, not a statement!

A question I answered on half a dozen separate occasions.  My point exactly; you either cannot or aren't willing to read.

Quote
Regardless, it's still a Marxist ideal!

Since we're using reductio ad infinitums at will here, wanting to put "in god we trust" on our currency is a theocratic ideal.   

Quote
How does it hurt?

Because now plenty of kids no longer play sports just for fun; they forgo academic study on the absurd notion that they'll become professional athletes. 

Studies suggest that an interest in sports is beneficial to youth development.  However, an obsession can decrease academic success and increase bullying. 

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on August 01, 2012, 11:48:36 AM
A question I answered on half a dozen separate occasions.  My point exactly; you either cannot or aren't willing to read.

Since we're using reductio ad infinitums at will here, wanting to put "in god we trust" on our currency is a theocratic ideal.   

Because now plenty of kids no longer play sports just for fun; they forgo academic study on the absurd notion that they'll become professional athletes. 

Studies suggest that an interest in sports is beneficial to youth development.  However, an obsession can decrease academic success and increase bullying.

I guess when you have no argument, you just post BS, as if you really had anything to say.

You advocate paying certain professions less, but give no examples as to how this can be achieved without the heavy hand of govt.
Care to give us your plan?

Quote from: Solar on August 01, 2012, 11:53:51 AM
I guess when you have no argument, you just post BS, as if you really had anything to say.

Nope.  I just get frustrated when you ask the same "question" to me half a dozen times, and after receiving an answer back, proceed to ask it...again.  It's like training a monkey.

Quote
You advocate paying certain professions less, but give no examples as to how this can be achieved without the heavy hand of govt.
Care to give us your plan?

Sports athletes - as I've made clear half a dozen times, with you ignoring me after each, just reform our education system.
Movie stars - see above.
High profile entertainers - see above.
Socialites - Tax large inheritances.  Doesn't hurt the common people.
Reality TV stars - See two above.
[some] businessmen - Increase corporate regulation.  Why do you get the impression that regulating 0.0001% of the wealthiest of Americans hurts freedom for all of us?
CEOs - Increase corporate regulation and taxes.  It's not that I hate all wealthy people; I hate those that make their wealth by cheating the system, which contains more loopholes that the Brown's defense.
Bankers - See above. 
Management consultants - Education.  People will be less likely to fall for bullshit if they're more intelligent.
High-end TV anchors - Education.  People will be less likely to fall for bullshit if they're more intelligent.
High-end real estate agents - Education.  People will be less likely to fall for bullshit if they're more intelligent.
Lawyers - I dunno.
Public school administrators - Pay the teachers more, these people less.


Here's a question for you, Solar:

What checks and balances does a Laissez-faire economic system have against unethical business practices?

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on August 01, 2012, 12:27:27 PM
Sports athletes - as I've made clear half a dozen times, with you ignoring me after each, just reform our education system.
Movie stars - see above.
High profile entertainers - see above.
Socialites - Tax large inheritances.  Doesn't hurt the common people.
Reality TV stars - See two above.
[some] businessmen - Increase corporate regulation.  Why do you get the impression that regulating 0.0001% of the wealthiest of Americans hurts freedom for all of us?
CEOs - Increase corporate regulation and taxes.  It's not that I hate all wealthy people; I hate those that make their wealth by cheating the system, which contains more loopholes that the Brown's defense.
Bankers - See above. 
Management consultants - Education.  People will be less likely to fall for bullshit if they're more intelligent.
High-end TV anchors - Education.  People will be less likely to fall for bullshit if they're more intelligent.
High-end real estate agents - Education.  People will be less likely to fall for bullshit if they're more intelligent.
Lawyers - I dunno.
Public school administrators - Pay the teachers more, these people less.

Why do you keep saying education will somehow effect what people are paid, or "make it fairer".

QuoteHere's a question for you, Solar:

What checks and balances does a Laissez-faire economic system have against unethical business practices?

Competition. If a business as dealt with you unethically, why would you continue to patronize them? Laissez-faire applies to both the customer and the business

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on August 01, 2012, 12:27:27 PM
Nope.  I just get frustrated when you ask the same "question" to me half a dozen times, and after receiving an answer back, proceed to ask it...again.  It's like training a monkey.

Go back through this thread, it is you that keeps wanting to dance, I asked you once and you never gave a direct answer, yet you come back complaining that you keep answering the same question.
So answer it, are you advocating redistribution of wealth, Yes or No?

QuoteSports athletes - as I've made clear half a dozen times, with you ignoring me after each, just reform our education system.
Movie stars - see above.
High profile entertainers - see above.
Socialites - Tax large inheritances.  Doesn't hurt the common people.
Reality TV stars - See two above.
[some] businessmen - Increase corporate regulation.  Why do you get the impression that regulating 0.0001% of the wealthiest of Americans hurts freedom for all of us?
CEOs - Increase corporate regulation and taxes.  It's not that I hate all wealthy people; I hate those that make their wealth by cheating the system, which contains more loopholes that the Brown's defense.
Bankers - See above. 
Management consultants - Education.  People will be less likely to fall for bullshit if they're more intelligent.
High-end TV anchors - Education.  People will be less likely to fall for bullshit if they're more intelligent.
High-end real estate agents - Education.  People will be less likely to fall for bullshit if they're more intelligent.
Lawyers - I dunno.
Public school administrators - Pay the teachers more, these people less.


Here's a question for you, Solar:

What checks and balances does a Laissez-faire economic system have against unethical business practices?

So who will be in charge of this reeducation plan, the Govt?

Quote from: Solar on August 01, 2012, 01:01:16 PM
Go back through this thread, it is you that keeps wanting to dance, I asked you once and you never gave a direct answer, yet you come back complaining that you keep answering the same question.
So answer it, are you advocating redistribution of wealth, Yes or No?
So who will be in charge of this reeducation plan, the Govt?

Yeah, the government can do it. Just heard today on the radio news, that the post office is losing $25 million per day.

Quote from: kramarat on August 01, 2012, 01:10:08 PM
Yeah, the government can do it. Just heard today on the radio news, that the post office is losing $25 million per day.

Libs think the Govt has our best interests in mind....

Quote from: kramarat on August 01, 2012, 01:10:08 PM
Yeah, the government can do it. Just heard today on the radio news, that the post office is losing $25 million per day.

And what they're doing is NOT complex.....

USPS - Union System for Parasitic Sustainment

Quote from: taxed on August 01, 2012, 01:14:51 PM
And what they're doing is NOT complex.....

USPS - Union System for Parasitic Sustainment

If it weren't for junk mail, they would have closed long ago. 90% of what I get, is useless paper.....................which I burn. So much for saving the planet. I've got a government agency, that not only is bleeding money, but their primary purpose, is to deliver trash to my house.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on August 01, 2012, 11:12:12 AM
The fact is that, as I've brought up before, Jonas Salk never made a fraction of Terrell Owen's salary, an inverse relationship with their net worth to society.

Jonas Salk? Never heard of him. He can't be worth that much.

If Jonas wanted to make more money, he should have been a pro athlete.