Scifi, I'm curious, how would you remedy this, what would you do to level the playing field?

Quote from: Jasmine on July 31, 2012, 04:12:58 PM
There are probably tens or even hundreds of thousands of teachers, doctors, firemen, etc. They do valuable work, sure, but they aren't special.

I disagree immensely.


It takes great skill to perform the duties of the people You speak of, especially performing those skills under high pressure and having excellent results. There are the best of the best in those fields yet, sadly, they tend to get paid exactly the same as the worst in their field.

Jasmine, that response is a perfect example of what the average American seems to value over what should be valued based on actual necessity. There's a vast difference in those that can carry a football or shoot a basketball then those who can save, or mold lives, the respect given to them should be far greater than

Quote from: Jasmine on July 31, 2012, 04:12:58 PM
they aren't special.

It's no wonder our nation is bankrupt morally and financially.

QuoteThere are the best of the best in those fields yet, sadly, they tend to get paid exactly the same as the worst in their field.

Unions make sure that no one is any more special than anyone else. Skill means nothing. It is sad.

Quote from: kramarat on July 31, 2012, 04:47:08 PM


Unions make sure that no one is any more special than anyone else. Skill means nothing. It is sad.

Not all in those fields are union, but it is sad.  Wish people spent more on necessity rather than sporting events and entertainment, so those in the much needed fields could receive bonuses for their excellence.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 31, 2012, 04:52:34 PM


Not all in those fields are union, but it is sad.  Wish people spent more on necessity rather than sporting events and entertainment, so those in the much needed fields could receive bonuses for their excellence.

Do you not see a problem here?
Average teacher makes $44G while their top union bosses pull in nearly $500G

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/14/teacher-union-bigs-rake-in-dough-despite-budget-cuts-across-education-sector/#ixzz22FRHzNXv

Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2012, 05:02:16 PM
Do you not see a problem here?
Average teacher makes $44G while their top union bosses pull in nearly $500G

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/14/teacher-union-bigs-rake-in-dough-despite-budget-cuts-across-education-sector/#ixzz22FRHzNXv

Average pay for public school teachers:

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/Public-School-Teacher-Salary-Details.aspx?hdcbxbonuse=off&isshowpiechart=true&isshowjobchart=false&isshowsalarydetailcharts=false&isshownextsteps=false&isshowcompanyfct=false&isshowaboutyou=false

Treachers work ten months, plus have paid holidays. Take a look at student performance, and teacher compensation. It looks to me like the teachers are part of the problem also:

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/facts/key-facts-about-seattle-public-schools

From the link:

•Average teacher pay with benefits: $92,105

•31% of fourth graders failed in Reading
•38% of fourth graders failed in Math
•27% of eighth graders failed in Reading
•40% of eighth graders failed in Math
•40% of eighth graders failed in Science
•25% of tenth graders failed in Reading
•55% of tenth graders failed in Math
•55% of tenth graders failed in Science

Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2012, 05:02:16 PM
Do you not see a problem here?
Average teacher makes $44G while their top union bosses pull in nearly $500G

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/14/teacher-union-bigs-rake-in-dough-despite-budget-cuts-across-education-sector/#ixzz22FRHzNXv

Sure I see the problem with that. I also see the problem in our priorities/perspective.  Like Jasmine's post, its, IMO, a microcosmic example of our issues at hand. 

Quote from: kramarat on July 31, 2012, 05:20:45 PM
Average pay for public school teachers:

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/Public-School-Teacher-Salary-Details.aspx?hdcbxbonuse=off&isshowpiechart=true&isshowjobchart=false&isshowsalarydetailcharts=false&isshownextsteps=false&isshowcompanyfct=false&isshowaboutyou=false

Treachers work ten months, plus have paid holidays. Take a look at student performance, and teacher compensation. It looks to me like the teachers are part of the problem also:

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/facts/key-facts-about-seattle-public-schools

From the link:

•Average teacher pay with benefits: $92,105

•31% of fourth graders failed in Reading
•38% of fourth graders failed in Math
•27% of eighth graders failed in Reading
•40% of eighth graders failed in Math
•40% of eighth graders failed in Science
•25% of tenth graders failed in Reading
•55% of tenth graders failed in Math
•55% of tenth graders failed in Science

So pay a low to high wage based on individual results, but that would require oversight/regulation.  Though, I'm all for rewarding excellence, putting money in the hands of those that work for it is what we need. But how are we ever going to accomplish that when we allow corruption run our Country, and entertainers more respect than those who risk their lives to save others? 


I do believe we have a backwards pay scale, rewarding corruption and entertainment, etc. over necessity, but with that "human factor" Ive seen talked about on this board , and else where, what can we really do about it?


Maybe we could use propaganda to sway children to embrace intellectual accomplishment for the greater good over all else?  LOL, but then we'd have a nation of thinkers, cant imagine that boding well for the powers that be.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 31, 2012, 05:50:48 PM



So pay a low to high wage based on individual results, but that would require oversight/regulation.  Though, I'm all for rewarding excellence, putting money in the hands of those that work for it is what we need. But how are we ever going to accomplish that when we allow corruption run our Country, and entertainers more respect than those who risk their lives to save others? 


I do believe we have a backwards pay scale, rewarding corruption and entertainment, etc. over necessity, but with that "human factor" Ive seen talked about on this board , and else where, what can we really do about it?


Maybe we could use propaganda to sway children to embrace intellectual accomplishment for the greater good over all else?  LOL, but then we'd have a nation of thinkers, cant imagine that boding well for the powers that be.

The only people that have more respect for entertainers, than people that save lives, are idiots.

Corruption reigns, because government has partnered with private industry, to screw all of us.

No more bailouts, no more Solyndra's, no more crony capitalism. Private industry is private, and government makes and enforces laws that make sense. Period.

Sports stars, movie stars, rock stars, etc., get their money from us on a voluntary basis. We pay to see them. How much they make, is none of our business. If we don't like what they're doing, we don't have to give them money.

Teacher, police officers, firefighters, etc., are paid with the tax dollars that we earn, and are forced to pay by government. How much they make, as well as their perfomance, IS our business.

No more government unions. Period. Abolish them. If individual merit is good enough for the private sector, it's good enough for them. Pay will be strictly performance based. Slackers get terminated..............just like out here in the real world.

Yes. We could use propaganda to sway children toward intellectual accomplishment, or even accomplishment through hard work. But not for the greater good.................that would be socialism. We simply tell them the truth................if they don't work hard and study, they will live their lives at the bottom of the heap. People only deserve, what they are willing to go get. Wealth redistribution will not be here to save them. Also tell them to save their money. Whatever is left of social security, will not be enough to live on.

If they would prefer to live in a socialist country, when they turn 18, they can renounce their citizenship and move to one.

Quote from: kramarat on July 31, 2012, 06:47:43 PM
The only people that have more respect for entertainers, than people that save lives, are idiots.

Corruption reigns, because government has partnered with private industry, to screw all of us.

No more bailouts, no more Solyndra's, no more crony capitalism. Private industry is private, and government makes and enforces laws that make sense. Period.

Sports stars, movie stars, rock stars, etc., get their money from us on a voluntary basis. We pay to see them. How much they make, is none of our business. If we don't like what they're doing, we don't have to give them money.

Teacher, police officers, firefighters, etc., are paid with the tax dollars that we earn, and are forced to pay by government. How much they make, as well as their perfomance, IS our business.

No more government unions. Period. Abolish them. If individual merit is good enough for the private sector, it's good enough for them. Pay will be strictly performance based. Slackers get terminated..............just like out here in the real world.

Yes. We could use propaganda to sway children toward intellectual accomplishment, or even accomplishment through hard work. But not for the greater good.................that would be socialism. We simply tell them the truth................if they don't work hard and study, they will live their lives at the bottom of the heap. People only deserve, what they are willing to go get. Wealth redistribution will not be here to save them. Also tell them to save their money. Whatever is left of social security, will not be enough to live on.

If they would prefer to live in a socialist country, when they turn 18, they can renounce their citizenship and move to one.

Turning everything into private industry will not accomplish anything good in a land owned by entertainment.   

The greater good over constant self gratification is the only lesson that can effectively combat the human factor, IMO. Will it work? Maybe not, but it's the polar opposite of the save yourself mentality and that's what we need to ever have a real hope for a sustainable humanity.  Though it will probably never be allowed to happen, or even  if it does the good people may just be enslaved by those that reject it.  However, I believe it's still worthy of trying.


Does look like we agree in a few areas though, Rat.
Now, all that said I'm going to have a drink and toast to the people out there that still give a damn, those that "aren't special", but believe others are and try to protect them on a daily basis with little compensation, and great risk to themselves. 

Cheers!




ps... Anybody know if there's a game on worth watching?   

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 31, 2012, 07:45:46 PM



Turning everything into private industry will not accomplish anything good in a land owned by entertainment.   

The greater good over constant self gratification is the only lesson that can effectively combat the human factor, IMO. Will it work? Maybe not, but it's the polar opposite of the save yourself mentality and that's what we need to ever have a real hope for a sustainable humanity.  Though it will probably never be allowed to happen, or even  if it does the good people may just be enslaved by those that reject it.  However, I believe it's still worthy of trying.


Does look like we agree in a few areas though, Rat.
Now, all that said I'm going to have a drink and toast to the people out there that still give a damn, those that "aren't special", but believe others are and try to protect them on a daily basis with little compensation, and great risk to themselves. 

Cheers!




ps... Anybody know if there's a game on worth watching?

A land owned by entertainment? I don't understand that statement. Of course, I don't watch sports, watch almost no TV, and haven't been to a movie theater in about 5 years.

You're missing my point. A unionized, public sector work force, is nothing but top down socialism. I know some of these people. They don't work very hard, and don't have to, due to collective bargaining. They make a decent living, great benefits, are able to retire after 20 years, and get a nice pension check for the rest of their lives. That doesn't happen in the private sector.

Government unions are an oxymoron. Why would they need workplace protection, when they work for the people that make the rules for all workplaces?

Eliminate them, make pay based on merit, and we can have the best of the best workers, across the entire public sector spectrum. As it stands, we are paying big bucks for mediocrity, and it's gone on for far too long.

Democrat voting, public sector workers say, "Give us more money, and we'll do a better job."
Democrats shower them with more money, chickenshit republicans go along, because they don't want to painted as "not caring". And the expensive, bloated, mediocrity train, continues to chug along................draining money from the coffers, and giving us little in return.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 29, 2012, 05:48:52 PM
Here's my list.


Overpaid:


Socialites

Hmmm....What exactly does a socialite get paid today?  Aren't they living off accumulated wealth?

I'll add one to the "overpaid" list...authors of fabricated family histories which include supposedly personal stories rife with "composite" girlfriends.

Quote from: bluelieu on August 01, 2012, 05:26:28 AM

Hmmm....What exactly does a socialite get paid today?  Aren't they living off accumulated wealth?

I'll add one to the "overpaid" list...authors of fabricated family histories which include supposedly personal stories rife with "composite" girlfriends.

Great example! If Obama had advertised his books, as, "fictional" accounts of his life, I seriously doubt that they would have done well.

Quote from: kramarat on August 01, 2012, 05:34:34 AM
Great example! If Obama had advertised his books, as, "fictional" accounts of his life, I seriously doubt that they would have done well.

Whatever. But stupid people voluntarily went down and bought his book. The fact that they purchased a $30 doorstop is their own fault. The market allows you to do smart things, but it also allows you to do stupid things.

Quote from: mdgiles on August 01, 2012, 05:41:07 AM
Whatever. But stupid people voluntarily went down and bought his book. The fact that they purchased a $30 doorstop is their own fault. The market allows you to do smart things, but it also allows you to do stupid things.

I don't fault Obama for making a bundle off the fake accounts of his life, that he supposedly wrote. PT Barnum would be proud.