Quote from: Dr_Watt on August 13, 2012, 05:44:55 PM
When one considers that the U.S. has the highest corporate tax rate of all industrialized nations, should this really be that surprising?

Im not surprised, only confused as to why we allow corporations authority over our government, but now I see why they still allow for the mirage of a "highest corporate tax rate".

Quote from: Dr_Watt on August 13, 2012, 05:44:55 PM
If government did not have the power to pick financial winners and loser via through extra-constitutional regulatory powers, assumed by itself, for itself, there would be no reason for so-called big money to "buy" representatives!

It is the power the government has over the success or failure of businesses which make it a prime target for corruption. If the Federal Government limited itself to the size and powers dictated to it by the Constitution there would be no such thing as "too big to fail".

Ok, but consider this, we limit government allowing for less people to be bought off, in that scenario we are still overrun by corruption only it's not as costly on the corporations that are doing the buying. 

If the federal government, under the current standing, limited itself to size and powers then to big to fail would be less costly on the big and those that fail could be much greater in numbers.

Quote from: Dr_Watt on August 13, 2012, 05:44:55 PM
The existence of a "soul" can neither be proved nor disproved. That being the case, there is just as much evidence that a corporation has a soul as there is that it doesn't.

Your "opinion" is a irrelevant as it is baseless.

The existence of a "possible soul" to describe an individuals ability for compassion over profit was the desired effect which is very relevant, unless you're arguing that corporate compassion far exceeds that of the individual, then we'd just have to agree to disagree.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on August 13, 2012, 06:34:45 PM


The existence of a "possible soul" to describe an individuals ability for compassion over profit was the desired effect which is very relevant, unless you're arguing that corporate compassion far exceeds that of the individual, then we'd just have to agree to disagree.

Problem is, the Liberal ideal of big government espouses the distribution of largesse from the treasury rather than voluntarily from the purses and and wallets of Jane and John Q. Citizen....It renders your individual "souless" since individual compassion is unnecessary....Uncle Sam will take care of all our needs.

Quote from: bluelieu on August 13, 2012, 09:47:04 PM
Problem is, the Liberal ideal of big government espouses the distribution of largesse from the treasury rather than voluntarily from the purses and and wallets of Jane and John Q. Citizen....It renders your individual "souless" since individual compassion is unnecessary....Uncle Sam will take care of all our needs.

The billions of dollars given to big business wasn't initiated by liberals, but rather "conservatives".
The government is supposed to be made up by the people, for the people, It doesn't render the individual "souless", quite the contrary actually , it's supposed to be a representative of the people and allow for the protection of our rights. That's why I do not like the purchasing of that entity, especially by profit mongering corporations.

I totally disagree with your comment concerning  government and the soul of the individual...Show me the random acts of kindness indicative of such in nations enthralled by massive government....the USSR, PRC, PRK...the bigger government gets the LESS your rights are protected, the MORE they are infringed upon. 

As far as Libs backing the corporate horse, please explain GE to me! Jeff Immelt sits on Obama's advisory board so his corporation is forgiven millions upon millions in taxes?  As far as buying influence, explain such entities as the TEA, SEIU, the UAW.  You see, if corporations aren't people, neither are labor unions.  The UAW was gifted in the GM bailout at the expense of people who invested in GM...they got shafted, the PEOPLE who made up the corporation...individual investors as well as pension plans which invested were thrown to the wolves to save the UAW....Tell the non-union members of Delphi who saw their pension destroyed while the UAW was bolstered how Libs are fair.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on August 14, 2012, 05:17:09 PM

The billions of dollars given to big business wasn't initiated by liberals, but rather "conservatives".
The government is supposed to be made up by the people, for the people, It doesn't render the individual "souless", quite the contrary actually , it's supposed to be a representative of the people and allow for the protection of our rights. That's why I do not like the purchasing of that entity, especially by profit mongering corporations.

Unless the government is purchasing something from a corporation, it doesn't "give" billions of dollars to corporations. What it does, it, in some instances, is to allow corporations to keep the money they've earned.

Government has no money of its own. It can only get money by confiscating it from others.

-Dr Wayy

Quote from: bluelieu on August 14, 2012, 06:34:09 PM
I totally disagree with your comment concerning  government and the soul of the individual...Show me the random acts of kindness indicative of such in nations enthralled by massive government

It's not supposed to be "random acts of kindness", it's supposed to be by the people for the people, not for random people, or random corporations.

Government has protected our freedoms, it now being bought by the deepest pocket, openly, is a crime against the people, and the freedoms it's supposed to uphold.

Quote from: bluelieu on August 14, 2012, 06:34:09 PM
As far as Libs backing the corporate horse, please explain GE to me!

Im not saying either side is more or less corrupt then the other.  They're both allowing money direct their actions.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on August 14, 2012, 06:59:22 PM

It's not supposed to be "random acts of kindness", it's supposed to be by the people for the people, not for random people, or random corporations.

Government has protected our freedoms, it now being bought by the deepest pocket, openly, is a crime against the people, and the freedoms it's supposed to uphold.

What has Lincoln' Gettysburg address have to do with corporations?
Do you even have a clue what it means to incorporate? It is a protection from Govt and personal liabilities, so that the Govt and people can't take your home and personal property.
You're under the illusion that it is some sinister evil soulless entity that lives in a 3rd dimension, when in reality it's nothing more than a way of doing business and protecting your assets from seizure in it's simplest of form.

Corporations have to lobby govt to protect it's assets, sadly it's part of being in a Capitalist society.
Care top venture into what the alternative might be?

I agree that politicians have figured out a way to extort from business, but it's not the business fault for wanting to stay viable and protect it's own interests as well as it's employees.

QuoteIm not saying either side is more or less corrupt then the other.  They're both allowing money direct their actions.

Which is why you should be supporting the Tea party.

Quote from: Solar on August 14, 2012, 07:22:52 PM
I agree that politicians have figured out a way to extort from business, but it's not the business fault for wanting to stay viable and protect it's own interests as well as it's employees.

It's businesses extorting from the people through politicians that are extorting businesses. In the end, the majority are being screwed. 

Our government is not something that an "evil third dimension entity" is controlling, but rather the reality is money, under the guise of 'protecting themselves', is, and has been,  robbing from the majority and sadly, we're allowing it to happen.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on August 14, 2012, 07:41:23 PM
It's businesses extorting from the people through politicians that are extorting businesses. In the end, the majority are being screwed. 

Our government is not something that an "evil third dimension entity" is controlling, but rather the reality is money, under the guise of 'protecting themselves', is, and has been,  robbing from the majority and sadly, we're allowing it to happen.

Your animus should be directed at the Govt not business.

Quote from: Solar on August 14, 2012, 07:22:52 PM
What has Lincoln' Gettysburg address have to do with corporations?
Do you even have a clue what it means to incorporate? It is a protection from Govt and personal liabilities, so that the Govt and people can't take your home and personal property.
You're under the illusion that it is some sinister evil soulless entity that lives in a 3rd dimension, when in reality it's nothing more than a way of doing business and protecting your assets from seizure in it's simplest of form.

Corporations have to lobby govt to protect it's assets, sadly it's part of being in a Capitalist society.
Care top venture into what the alternative might be?

I agree that politicians have figured out a way to extort from business, but it's not the business fault for wanting to stay viable and protect it's own interests as well as it's employees.

Which is why you should be supporting the Tea party.

Naw, he's for more taxation and government growth and control.

Quote from: Indy on August 14, 2012, 07:59:55 PM
Naw, he's for more taxation and government growth and control.

Yep!
If he could see that less restrictions on business, and more on Govt, he might get it, but he has nothing to measure against, that comes with age.

Quote from: Solar on August 14, 2012, 08:09:44 PM
Yep!
If he could see that less restrictions on business, and more on Govt, he might get it, but he has nothing to measure against, that comes with age.

Thus far, in our time, we've seen our hard earned money go to big businesses that are "to big to fail", they've taken far more from us, through businesses and paid off representatives, then many seem to want to realize. 

Im not for more taxation, Im for people control, and better spending of the peoples taxes. Im certainly not for money control that gives away to those that pad pockets.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on August 14, 2012, 09:25:17 PM

Thus far, in our time, we've seen our hard earned money go to big businesses that are "to big to fail", they've taken far more from us, through businesses and paid off representatives, then many seem to want to realize. 

Im not for more taxation, Im for people control, and better spending of the peoples taxes. Im certainly not for money control that gives away to those that pad pockets.

No more bailouts. No more company building, like Solyndra.

The government should fund research on new technologies that show promise, and enforce common sense regulations on corporate America.

Most people aren't aware that the government created the artificial housing bubble, and are solely responsible for our current economic mess. Not the corporations.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on August 14, 2012, 09:25:17 PM

Thus far, in our time, we've seen our hard earned money go to big businesses that are "to big to fail", they've taken far more from us, through businesses and paid off representatives, then many seem to want to realize. 

Im not for more taxation, Im for people control, and better spending of the peoples taxes. Im certainly not for money control that gives away to those that pad pockets.

When Bush backed TARP, that was the last straw, that is the reason the Tea party started.
Govt does not have the right to pick and choose winners and losers, no business is too big to fail.
Had Fannie and Freddie been left to their own devices, the mkt. would have sorted itself out, that's the beauty of the free mkt. but the Dims changed the rules way back and it's obit had been written in stone.

You see, it's not business that is the problem, it will always operate to it's fullest under the restrictions govt sets, but it was Govt that had forced private industry to take on bad business practices that set the ball in motion, the end was inevitable, so bailing them out was their logical conclusion, considering the govt was to blame in the first place (and it was the Dims that caused it).

Point is, Govt needs to stay the fuck out of private industry and let the free mkt function, it will always take the path of least resistance.
So if you agree, you are inline with Tea party values.

Quote from: Solar on August 15, 2012, 06:10:38 AM
When Bush backed TARP, that was the last straw, that is the reason the Tea party started.
Govt does not have the right to pick and choose winners and losers, no business is too big to fail.
Had Fannie and Freddie been left to their own devices, the mkt. would have sorted itself out, that's the beauty of the free mkt. but the Dims changed the rules way back and it's obit had been written in stone.

You see, it's not business that is the problem, it will always operate to it's fullest under the restrictions govt sets, but it was Govt that had forced private industry to take on bad business practices that set the ball in motion, the end was inevitable, so bailing them out was their logical conclusion, considering the govt was to blame in the first place (and it was the Dims that caused it).

Point is, Govt needs to stay the fuck out of private industry and let the free mkt function, it will always take the path of least resistance.
So if you agree, you are inline with Tea party values.

The left is coming out with the same old tired talking points...........................
Romney and the right want to throw all regulation out the window. Let the banks and corporations do whatever they want, pollute all of our rivers and streams, throw away environmental regulations. It's such utter bullshit. Nobody wants to eliminate government. They've got an important role to play................................we just want them to get back to it.