Quote from: Capt.Obvious on January 23, 2013, 08:32:43 PM
Are you really that insecure you can only make snide remarks as opposed to debating?   You're surrounded by your compatriots here, you're secure.

I'm already tired of you.

Quote from: The Boo Man... on January 23, 2013, 08:27:29 PM
I don't think so but my point still stands. if Saddam owned up to that we would never had gone back in. If he allowed the inspectors full access the Iraq war would never have happened. We would not have invaded and the UN would still be making money off the food for oil deal...

I think we are getting into some more philosophical differences here. I get what your saying, I would only say that it what not intrinsically our responsibility, based on a completely different conflict, that didn't have to do with WMD's in the first place. It seems like it should have the UN's decision, but I totally agree the UN has a lot of idiocy ruling it's decisions.

Quote from: taxed on January 23, 2013, 08:33:57 PM
I'm already tired of you.

Damn!  So it's over? This forum is pointless without you. 

*Deletes account*

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 08:42:23 PM
I think we are getting into some more philosophical differences here. I get what your saying, I would only say that it what not intrinsically our responsibility, based on a completely different conflict, that didn't have to do with WMD's in the first place. It seems like it should have the UN's decision, but I totally agree the UN has a lot of idiocy ruling it's decisions.

If these were just philosophical differences then there would not have been all those UN resolutions giving Saddam the chance to comply.

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 06:40:22 PM
Ok, wait, "creating false memories of just how bad it was"? Lets just run down the list for second, under President Bush, we went from a national surplus of $5.6 trillion, to a deficit of $1,215 billion. September 11th happened, not saying it's his fault, just saying, it happened while he was in charge. We invaded a sovereign nation, under false pretenses, while still fighting another war in Afghanistan, where we never achieved our goal of catching Osama Bin Ladin, during his terms. Both the housing market and wall street collapsed, leading to the most serious economic crisis since the great depression. Also, have to thrown in the patriot act, no child left behind and guantanamo, none of which went well for anyone.

Lets not act like it's all spin, lol. There is a lot of truth in that, but I respect the sentiment of lets move forward. I'm all about moving forward, but not at the expense of forgetting the past.

After reading too many of this posters posts it is clear it is just the same old libtard BS. Obama can do no wrong and it is all Bush's fault.

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 23, 2013, 06:40:22 PM
Ok, wait, "creating false memories of just how bad it was"? Lets just run down the list for second, under President Bush, we went from a national surplus of $5.6 trillion, to a deficit of $1,215 billion.

From a lib site, no less.  You will notice that Bush's debt was holding fairly steady with only a slight rise until the end.  Hmmm what happened at the end of Bush's presidency to cause that?  Oh, right, a Democrat majority in house and senate.  While this does not release him of some culpability, you must remember that at that time, the libs were screaming for his resignation, posting threats to his life on youtube, selling t-shirsts of his head being being blown off...He was under a bit of duress, and doing what he thought the nation wanted, at that time.

QuoteSeptember 11th happened, not saying it's his fault, just saying, it happened while he was in charge. We invaded a sovereign nation, under false pretenses, while still fighting another war in Afghanistan, where we never achieved our goal of catching Osama Bin Ladin, during his terms.

You say out one site of your mouth that it wasn't his fault, yet you blame him for it in the same phrase.  Make up your mind, is it his fault, or not.  We did not catch Osama on his watch, mores the pity.  He had the backing of House, Senate and the UN, I am not sure whom else you would have liked him to ask permission.

QuoteBoth the housing market and wall street collapsed, leading to the most serious economic crisis since the great depression.

The housing collapse?  Bush warned congress many times of a coming collapse and no one listened.  The housing market fall can be linked very easily to Clinton and his penchant for fairness in housing. http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/clintons_drive.html
As to the actual collapse, unlike our current "rule by fiat" president, Bush warned (as I said) and the congress refused to act.  http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/05/pelosi-caught-in-major-lie-says-bush-didnt-warn-congress-about-financial-crisis-records-show-he-warned-congress-17-in-2008-alone/
I know, conservative site, but it actually liinks to sources.

QuoteAlso, have to thrown in the patriot act, no child left behind and guantanamo, none of which went well for anyone.

Lets not act like it's all spin, lol. There is a lot of truth in that, but I respect the sentiment of lets move forward. I'm all about moving forward, but not at the expense of forgetting the past.

The patriot act was not a smart move, however he truly felt he was doing good.  Obama expanded the Act, so apparently he does not feel it is so bad. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/patriot-act-extension-signed-obama-autopen_n_867851.html
No child left behind was again, foolish.  The problem was, at that point, he was looking at problems like liberals do, make it a little better for the one suffering, at the expense of anyone who is not.  It just does not work.
Gitmo, well I really don't see any issue with Gitmo, and apparently neither does PINO because four years after he signed an EO stating Gitmo will be closed within one year, it is still open.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/20/obamas-first-term-promise-close-gitmo-prison-still/


So, yes let's move beyond the Bush Blaming, shall we?

Quote from: JustKari on January 24, 2013, 07:36:10 AM

From a lib site, no less.  You will notice that Bush's debt was holding fairly steady with only a slight rise until the end.  Hmmm what happened at the end of Bush's presidency to cause that?  Oh, right, a Democrat majority in house and senate.  While this does not release him of some culpability, you must remember that at that time, the libs were screaming for his resignation, posting threats to his life on youtube, selling t-shirsts of his head being being blown off...He was under a bit of duress, and doing what he thought the nation wanted, at that time.
You say out one site of your mouth that it wasn't his fault, yet you blame him for it in the same phrase.  Make up your mind, is it his fault, or not.  We did not catch Osama on his watch, mores the pity.  He had the backing of House, Senate and the UN, I am not sure whom else you would have liked him to ask permission.
The housing collapse?  Bush warned congress many times of a coming collapse and no one listened.  The housing market fall can be linked very easily to Clinton and his penchant for fairness in housing. http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/clintons_drive.html
As to the actual collapse, unlike our current "rule by fiat" president, Bush warned (as I said) and the congress refused to act.  http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/05/pelosi-caught-in-major-lie-says-bush-didnt-warn-congress-about-financial-crisis-records-show-he-warned-congress-17-in-2008-alone/
I know, conservative site, but it actually liinks to sources.

The patriot act was not a smart move, however he truly felt he was doing good.  Obama expanded the Act, so apparently he does not feel it is so bad. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/patriot-act-extension-signed-obama-autopen_n_867851.html
No child left behind was again, foolish.  The problem was, at that point, he was looking at problems like liberals do, make it a little better for the one suffering, at the expense of anyone who is not.  It just does not work.
Gitmo, well I really don't see any issue with Gitmo, and apparently neither does PINO because four years after he signed an EO stating Gitmo will be closed within one year, it is still open.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/20/obamas-first-term-promise-close-gitmo-prison-still/


So, yes let's move beyond the Bush Blaming, shall we?

Well done Kari, but something tells me this will go in one ear, and out the next.

Quote from: Solar on January 24, 2013, 07:40:30 AM
Well done Kari, but something tells me this will go in one ear, and out the next.

Well with nothing in the middle it's to be expected.

Quote from: Solar on January 24, 2013, 07:40:30 AM
Well done Kari, but something tells me this will go in one ear, and out the next.

Well, at least you read it so I didn't drag myself out to the PC for nothing. 

Quote from: JustKari on January 24, 2013, 07:36:10 AM

From a lib site, no less.  You will notice that Bush's debt was holding fairly steady with only a slight rise until the end.  Hmmm what happened at the end of Bush's presidency to cause that?  Oh, right, a Democrat majority in house and senate.  While this does not release him of some culpability, you must remember that at that time, the libs were screaming for his resignation, posting threats to his life on youtube, selling t-shirsts of his head being being blown off...He was under a bit of duress, and doing what he thought the nation wanted, at that time.
You say out one site of your mouth that it wasn't his fault, yet you blame him for it in the same phrase.  Make up your mind, is it his fault, or not.  We did not catch Osama on his watch, mores the pity.  He had the backing of House, Senate and the UN, I am not sure whom else you would have liked him to ask permission.
The housing collapse?  Bush warned congress many times of a coming collapse and no one listened.  The housing market fall can be linked very easily to Clinton and his penchant for fairness in housing. http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/clintons_drive.html
As to the actual collapse, unlike our current "rule by fiat" president, Bush warned (as I said) and the congress refused to act.  http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/05/pelosi-caught-in-major-lie-says-bush-didnt-warn-congress-about-financial-crisis-records-show-he-warned-congress-17-in-2008-alone/
I know, conservative site, but it actually liinks to sources.

The patriot act was not a smart move, however he truly felt he was doing good.  Obama expanded the Act, so apparently he does not feel it is so bad. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/patriot-act-extension-signed-obama-autopen_n_867851.html
No child left behind was again, foolish.  The problem was, at that point, he was looking at problems like liberals do, make it a little better for the one suffering, at the expense of anyone who is not.  It just does not work.
Gitmo, well I really don't see any issue with Gitmo, and apparently neither does PINO because four years after he signed an EO stating Gitmo will be closed within one year, it is still open.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/20/obamas-first-term-promise-close-gitmo-prison-still/


So, yes let's move beyond the Bush Blaming, shall we?

My point was not to blame former President Bush, but there are simple facts that exist, that do not go away. Financially speaking, President Bush did contribute to the economic failures we are suffering from now. Tax cuts, in conjunction with two wars, an now new revenue coming in, is a recipe for disaster. Add in the deregulation of the financial sector by the Secretary of Treasury, and we were doomed to end up here.

I would also like to state for the record, I am not a supporter of President Obama. I didn't vote for him, nor would I given another opportunity. In my perfect world someone like Jon Huntsman would be President, but because of our current electoral system, candidates like him don't have a shot. My point is that I am not some leftist, follow the dems like a sheep, progressive. I do, however think that ignoring the past dooms you to repeat it, and I'm not going to forget what President Bush or President Obama has done to hurt this country. But I'm not going to blame one or the other singularly.

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 24, 2013, 08:04:24 AM
My point was not to blame former President Bush, but there are simple facts that exist, that do not go away. Financially speaking, President Bush did contribute to the economic failures we are suffering from now. Tax cuts, in conjunction with two wars, an now new revenue coming in, is a recipe for disaster. Add in the deregulation of the financial sector by the Secretary of Treasury, and we were doomed to end up here.

I would also like to state for the record, I am not a supporter of President Obama. I didn't vote for him, nor would I given another opportunity. In my perfect world someone like Jon Huntsman would be President, but because of our current electoral system, candidates like him don't have a shot. My point is that I am not some leftist, follow the dems like a sheep, progressive. I do, however think that ignoring the past dooms you to repeat it, and I'm not going to forget what President Bush or President Obama has done to hurt this country. But I'm not going to blame one or the other singularly.

Then we stand on some common ground.

Quote from: JustKari on January 24, 2013, 08:40:51 AM
Then we stand on some common ground.

Do we? It doesn't seem like that from your previous post and breakdown. It sounded to me like the only failures you acknowledge from the previous administration is the Patriot Act, and no child left behind. I'm not saying that President Bush deserves all the blame for government failures, but would you accept the idea that there was some serious negligence by his administration? Or have I headed to far to the left? lol 

Some great replies there Justkeri. It is pretty scary the hypocritical distortions and misrepresentations that are constantly tossed around like they are facts.  Obama is in year 5 and he still is not responsible for a damn thing that is going on yet bush is blamed for 911.  Then he gets no credit that the economy got over that.  He did spend like a sailor on leave with the help of the Dems so I think that part of where our economy is should be laid at his feet too.  Guantanamo is still alive and well and do not recall it being mentioned much in the inaugural speech. 

I still scratch my head when a Rep talks about the patriot act in a positive way.  It really has faded from the collective memory that the invasion of Iraq was discussed with everyone and prior to the invasion the majority of the people in this country were all for it.   I was against it and was certain that the issue was not WMD.  Most of what was said had long been proven to be false.  I still believe that if our country is going to be at war we need a draft.  Everyone needs some skin in the game.  I think the same thing about taxes,  everyone has a minimum membership fee that can be paid in taxes or services to the country.  No free rides.

I am glad you did such a great job because as I read the post you responded to I could feel my head wanting to explode because it clearly was just fabrications that get said so often that the Libs now think they are true.  Bush was no fiscal conservative but he was not even in the same book as obama when it comes to spending money. 

Quote from: EHMakeup on January 24, 2013, 08:56:26 AM
Do we? It doesn't seem like that from your previous post and breakdown. It sounded to me like the only failures you acknowledge from the previous administration is the Patriot Act, and no child left behind. I'm not saying that President Bush deserves all the blame for government failures, but would you accept the idea that there was some serious negligence by his administration? Or have I headed to far to the left? lol 

I also said that he warned of the financial crisis, but left it up to congress to do something about.  He certainly could have ruled by EO, he had the option available, but chose to do it "the old fashioned way".  Since I really am not a fan of the EO (it's a conservative thing) I can't really fault him for not doing it.  I do see your point though, he had the knowledge, passed it on to those that did nothing, if he was going lib, he might as well have forced something.  Not sure if it would have worked, I can't predict the future, the last election proved that.

We highlight Bush's spending but never mention the money wasted on the stimulus.   Solyndra?    And a lot of it was wasted and used as payback.