Quote from: Shooterman on September 30, 2010, 08:40:15 AM
Don't see the DIMS of the 60s being today's PUBS. God help us if that is true. There were two distinct factions, both liberal and conservative in both parties in the 60s. Mostly Big East was the liberals, especially the PUBS. Of course, many in the South were liberal DIMS, notably LBJ, Sam Rayburn, Jack Brooks, and a slew more. The liberals began to control politics in Texas primarily with LBJ stealing the Senate seat from Coke Stevenson in '48.

The liberal PUBS basically defeated Bob Taft in the PUB convention in '52 and installed Ike as the candidate, and were the direct cause of the failure of Goldwater in '64. Everything went to shit after that.

I personally see the Tea Party as morphing into a new party or dying if it becomes only the mouthpiece for PUBS. Time will tell.

I would also tell you, I see no return to either parties roots within my lifetime.

Both sides have crossed the line and I see no return to either parties roots in my lifetime also.

 author=Shooterman link=topic=90.msg1382#msg1382 date=1285861215]

QuoteDon't see the DIMS of the 60s being today's PUBS. God help us if that is true. There were two distinct factions, both liberal and conservative in both parties in the 60s. Mostly Big East was the liberals, especially the PUBS. Of course, many in the South were liberal DIMS, notably LBJ, Sam Rayburn, Jack Brooks, and a slew more. The liberals began to control politics in Texas primarily with LBJ stealing the Senate seat from Coke Stevenson in '48.

The liberal PUBS basically defeated Bob Taft in the PUB convention in '52 and installed Ike as the candidate, and were the direct cause of the failure of Goldwater in '64. Everything went to shit after that.

I'm not talking about the extreme faction of the Dim party, but the magority were somewhat pragmatists, much like the majority of the RINO in the Pub party, they are too willing to cave on principal to get what they want.

QuoteI personally see the Tea Party as morphing into a new party or dying if it becomes only the mouthpiece for PUBS. Time will tell.

Nope!
That is what the Pubs want you to think, by touting Palin as it's representative.

QuoteI would also tell you, I see no return to either parties roots within my lifetime.

Ahhh out comes the pessimist again. ;)

I believe that the Republican Party can trace it's REAL roots to the McKinley/Teddy Roosevelt time frame, right around the turn of the century, with the "peak" of the Republican Party "influence" occurring during the Reagan administration.  Reagan was forced to do some "un-Republican" things that he didn't want to do, in order to get what HE wanted, because he was dealing with a Democrat-controlled Congress. 

Since Reagan, the ideals, core principles, and core beliefs of the Republican Party have been blurred and compromised by a bunch of spineless political opportunists.

Thus, as of right now, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the Republican Party and the Democrat Party.  This created a "perfect storm" and a void that was filled by the American Tea Party.

You are either a CONSERVATIVE, or you are not.  If you are NOT a conservative, then you don't belong in the REPUBLICAN Party.  You belong in the Democrat or Green or Communist Party (sorry for the redundancy).

People like Collins and Snowe and Graham and McCain and the other RINOS must be expunged from the Republican Party, if the party is ever going to return to it's core priniciples and beliefs.

I'll say this. The conservative southern Democrats of the past are all but gone. There is no room for a conservative southern democrat in today's party. If you aren't a handicapped hispanic lesbian vegan marxist, then they just don't want you.  :P

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on September 30, 2010, 10:19:07 AM
I believe that the Republican Party can trace it's REAL roots to the McKinley/Teddy Roosevelt time frame, right around the turn of the century, with the "peak" of the Republican Party "influence" occurring during the Reagan administration.

McKinley and Teddy R were certainly not conservatives and paved the way for Wilson, et al. Reagan compromised his principles ( though as a liberal FDR supporter, I'll always wonder about his bonafieds.

QuoteReagan was forced to do some "un-Republican" things that he didn't want to do, in order to get what HE wanted, because he was dealing with a Democrat-controlled Congress.

Possibly, but he never seemed apologetic about doing the un-Republican things. The question is was he like Ike, Nixon, Ford, all who did un-Republican things. Bush One actually touted Choice when he ran against Reagan. Was he a typical PUB. Junior Bush was basically a liberal through and through- what core PUB principles did he run on?

QuoteSince Reagan, the ideals, core principles, and core beliefs of the Republican Party have been blurred and compromised by a bunch of spineless political opportunists.

How about from the time of Ike and Warren? Hell, how about the core that started the PUB Party.

QuoteThus, as of right now, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the Republican Party and the Democrat Party.  This created a "perfect storm" and a void that was filled by the American Tea Party.

That is the truth, and as long as the Tea Party stays basically free of the PUBS, they'll survive and hopefully become a viable party within their own right

QuoteYou are either a CONSERVATIVE, or you are not.  If you are NOT a conservative, then you don't belong in the REPUBLICAN Party.  You belong in the Democrat or Green or Communist Party (sorry for the redundancy).

So, AF, what exactly are you saying? A Conservative must be a PUB? The two are synonymous? Non- conservatives can not be a PUB? Slightly less conservatives can not be a PUB? Right leaning, so called MODERATES can not be a PUB? Liberals can not be a PUB? ( Barry G would have been pleased to know that shit )

QuotePeople like Collins and Snowe and Graham and McCain and the other RINOS must be expunged from the Republican Party, if the party is ever going to return to it's core priniciples and beliefs.

Oh shit, here we go again. The core principles and beliefs of who? Lincoln? Earl Warren?

Shooterman, your definition of "conservative ideals and priniciples" and MY definition of the same, are very different apparently.

Like it or not, this country is governed by a TWO-party system.  The average voter is too damn STUPID and IGNORANT to have more than TWO choices in an election.  Most of the time, they screw it up with only TWO choices.  Imagine what would happen if there were THREE or more choices!

It's very cut and dried............. 

Democrats are fiscally and socially liberal, and Republicans SHOULD be fiscally and socially conservative. 

Democrats believe that the U.S. Constitution and the Bill Of Rights are nothing more than "guidelines" that are subject to change and liberal interpretation.  Republicans SHOULD believe that the U.S. Constitution and Bill Of Rights are the foundation on which this country must be built on, and the words of our founders are NOT open to interpretation and negotiation.

The Republican Party has strayed from these basic principles, and THIS election is the BEST opportunity many of us have to get the Republican Party back on track.

THANK GOD FOR THE TEA PARTY!

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on September 30, 2010, 11:44:58 AM
Shooterman, your definition of "conservative ideals and priniciples" and MY definition of the same, are very different apparently.

Like it or not, this country is governed by a TWO-party system.  The average voter is too damn STUPID and IGNORANT to have more than TWO choices in an election.  Most of the time, they screw it up with only TWO choices.  Imagine what would happen if there were THREE or more choices!

It's very cut and dried............. 

Democrats are fiscally and socially liberal, and Republicans SHOULD be fiscally and socially conservative. 

Democrats believe that the U.S. Constitution and the Bill Of Rights are nothing more than "guidelines" that are subject to change and liberal interpretation.  Republicans SHOULD believe that the U.S. Constitution and Bill Of Rights are the foundation on which this country must be built on, and the words of our founders are NOT open to interpretation and negotiation.

The Republican Party has strayed from these basic principles, and THIS election is the BEST opportunity many of us have to get the Republican Party back on track.

THANK GOD FOR THE TEA PARTY!

First, we can agree on the Tea Party.

With that out of the way, a couple of simple questions. Was Lincoln a Conservative? Was Earl Warren a Conservative? Was Richard Nixon a Conservative? Each one of these men were Republicans and each affected and hastened the downfall of the the principles of the Constitution. So, I ask again. What core principles are we speaking of?

Quote from: Shooterman on September 30, 2010, 11:58:56 AM
First, we can agree on the Tea Party.

With that out of the way, a couple of simple questions. Was Lincoln a Conservative? Was Earl Warren a Conservative? Was Richard Nixon a Conservative? Each one of these men were Republicans and each affected and hastened the downfall of the the principles of the Constitution. So, I ask again. What core principles are we speaking of?

Small government, lower taxes, conservative judicial power and a lesser role for the federal government and a greater role for state and local governments.

Quote from: Dan on September 30, 2010, 12:16:39 PM
Small government, lower taxes, conservative judicial power and a lesser role for the federal government and a greater role for state and local governments.

Can we agree that automatically eliminated Lincoln and every PUB President since FDR?

Quote from: Shooterman on September 30, 2010, 12:21:27 PM
Can we agree that automatically eliminated Lincoln and every PUB President since FDR?

Only if you want to go under the assumption that presidents are absolute rulers who govern by decree.  ;)

Quote from: Dan on September 30, 2010, 12:24:37 PM
Only if you want to go under the assumption that presidents are absolute rulers who govern by decree.  ;)

They generally set the agenda. Lincoln certainly did. Wilson did. FDR. LBJ. Nixon. Reagan. Bush 2.

Obambam has.

BTW, Daniel, I'm still waiting for you to tell me if the aforementioned fellas were conservatives. ;)

Quote from: Shooterman on September 30, 2010, 12:38:42 PM
BTW, Daniel, I'm still waiting for you to tell me if the aforementioned fellas were conservatives. ;)

What do you consider a Conservative?

Quote from: Shooterman on September 30, 2010, 07:43:08 AM
True dat. The converse question is when did the DIMS cease being the Party of Jefferson? Or even Andy Jackson?

When Progressives were first introduced to our country.  They first appeared on the political scene under Teddy Roosevelt.  FDR was an all out Progressive who used his four terms in an attempt to do what Obama is now trying to do.  In fact, I have no doubts that they are using FDR's blueprint to establish their form of government.

Quote from: Seawolf on September 30, 2010, 12:57:43 PM
When Progressives were first introduced to our country.  They first appeared on the political scene under Teddy Roosevelt.  FDR was an all out Progressive who used his four terms in an attempt to do what Obama is now trying to do.  In fact, I have no doubts that they are using FDR's blueprint to establish their form of government.

Yep, check out the chart for pork spending by Administration -



I really get tired of the NeoCon excuse for 'Dubya when they say "Democrat controlled during his last two years".  Shit he was a bigger pork spender when the GOP controlled everything.

Only cuts where during Ronnie's first term.