How are you different from Conservatives? What is it about our Founding Documents do you not like?
What do you think needs changing?

I can't wait to see the replies!

Quote from: supsalemgr on September 13, 2022, 08:24:39 AMI can't wait to see the replies!

Me Too! It's always bugged me that they never distinguish the differences.
Granted, I've run into people claiming libertarian status as well as anarchists, yet the two are not even close in ideology.

Libertarians like to think they take the best ideas from both sides. I would like one to give me an example of a good idea from the left. 

Quote from: Solar on September 13, 2022, 07:34:13 AMHow are you different from Conservatives? What is it about our Founding Documents do you not like?
What do you think needs changing?

Bold question. I have known several who claimed to be libertarian, but knew nothing about the beliefs beyond legalizing dope. Most seemed to be quite liberal, just did not like being called liberal. Can't wait to see what is posted just to see how it compares to some of Ron Paul's writings.

Quote from: Solar on September 13, 2022, 07:34:13 AMHow are you different from Conservatives? What is it about our Founding Documents do you not like?
What do you think needs changing?

How I understand libertarians, where they differ is that they usually want a far more drastic reduction of the military and of Americas presence around the world than conservatives do.

And some libertarians will support abortion by saying the govt shld stay out of it.

To me Libetarians are the true Liberals, it's why I refer to them as Liberal-tarians. They aren't really leftists and they aren't conservatives by a long shot. They claim to support smaller Govt and freedom to do any damn thing they want with either moral or legal control of personal conduct. I get the impression that their proabortion stance helped create the current mess with Govt subsidized Planned "parenthood". Their stance of legalized drugs contributes to the soaring crime rate and empowerment of cartels and other outlaw crime syndicates.

But I would like to hear from a true dyed in wool Libetarian the like of which used to populate "the other Forum" we all fled from

In the old forums where I came from, we have a member who was surpisingly "a conservative", and seemed to have his head screwed on straight.  But then President Trump came along and it affected him significantly.

He's since claimed to have switched to "I'm "A Libertarian" now." ... But basically, all I see is it is now a platform for him to bash "Republicans" primarily, though he will still bash certain "Democrats/Independents" as well.  Again, no effort at explaining his "new party affiliation" just a means to an end in bashing.

I will say this much about him, he's former Air Force, if I recall, and he's also an American Black.  But early on he was one of the few blacks I knew who professed their "Conservative" leanings, despite still throwing up the slavery and white cops are out on a black killing spree bullcrap.

While I'm at it .... We also had a "run-a-way American" who moved to Canada during a republican election cycle. He claims to be "Independent", but he has never said a positive thing in support of any republican/conservative policies.  He pretty much quotes democrat blue talking points till he's blue in the face and refuses to admit he's a true blue democrat.

The world if full of funny people.

All great replies! 

It appears everyone here knows the LIB in LIBertarian runs extremely strong when it comes to hate and anger, an emotional reaction they have to everything political.

I had hoped one would share with us how they differ from patriots, those of us who want a return to our Founding Principles of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". Small govt, limited and accountable taxation fair tax Etc. 

but ask a lIBertarian, and they claim there should be no taxes, but that somehow govt should still have some sort of safety net to help those who don't want to work, not all, but a large proportion.
I think this is where this group fails in its connection to reality and what they fail to understand about Conservatives, all because they believed the Marxist propaganda put out by the NWO Media.

The media told them "Trumpist's" "Extreme Right" where the left is concerned, they think, well no, they don't actually think, they regurgitate what they've been told to believe. And since LIBertarians tend to be young and impressionable they believe the lies.

What these idiots fail top understand is, at some point in the 80s the GOP Establishment feared the movement was drawing votes away from the party, so they installed a pot smoking "Free love. Down With the man" RINO to lead the party.

This worked for a long time, in fact one could say it destroyed the Conservative connection,(Gary Johnson), became the head of the movement and he made it attractive to liberals.
Of course, this pushed out the thinking crowd leaving a vacuum of power, which lead to a free for all takeover of ideas and ideals.

Now the movement was left with the idea that they could form a better Govt, to that of tearing down govt, as in anarchism.
Yes, I've argued with a bunch of these idiot kids, and not a single one knows the party's history. As seen in their plan in the 70s. Smaller govt, no more UN etc.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/libertarian-party-platform-1972

But compare that to todays platform, and it screams of Marx ideals and anarchism.
https://www.lp.org/platform/

Bottom-line? Thee people are idiots who need destroyed every time they post, and feel free to use the reference links to expose just how big of fools they are for following them.

Quote from: T Hunt on September 13, 2022, 10:42:23 PMHow I understand libertarians, where they differ is that they usually want a far more drastic reduction of the military and of Americas presence around the world than conservatives do.

And some libertarians will support abortion by saying the govt shld stay out of it.

But wouldn't that be Conservative values as well? Considering it's a States Rights issue?
Military has always been a point of contention in it's use over foreign policy, or selecting which govts get military aid.
We've seen the abuse in the M/E since the carter years. Point being, our military has been used to line the pockets of despots, so I see no conflict with the original Libertarian platforn.

Where there is an issue however, and this changed sine their original platform, is borders.
LIBertarians see National borders as political borders.

"3.4 Free Trade and Migration

We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders."

Quote from: Solar on September 16, 2022, 01:17:45 PMBut wouldn't that be Conservative values as well? Considering it's a States Rights issue?
Military has always been a point of contention in it's use over foreign policy, or selecting which govts get military aid.
We've seen the abuse in the M/E since the carter years. Point being, our military has been used to line the pockets of despots, so I see no conflict with the original Libertarian platforn.

Where there is an issue however, and this changed sine their original platform, is borders.
LIBertarians see National borders as political borders.

"3.4 Free Trade and Migration

We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders."

I see, so they are open borders and reject nationalism.

Also with abortion, I think libertarians dont distinguish between federal and state so much, seeing govt as govt and all govt bad. So I think they would side more with the individual than the states.
Plus since some libertarians still trust the news like the left they still think a fetus isnt a human so think its no big deal.

Quote from: T Hunt on September 17, 2022, 07:49:10 AMI see, so they are open borders and reject nationalism.

Also with abortion, I think libertarians dont distinguish between federal and state so much, seeing govt as govt and all govt bad. So I think they would side more with the individual than the states.
Plus since some libertarians still trust the news like the left they still think a fetus isnt a human so think its no big deal.

Exactly!!!This is where the anarchists invaded the movement in the last 15 years.
Yes, the problem with the LIBertarian base of today is, a lack of morals, God is a Spaghetti monster they don't have to answer to.
Society be damned, I have the right to do as I please, and I'll decide just how far I infringe upon the Rights of others.

Quote from: Solar on September 17, 2022, 07:54:53 AMExactly!!!This is where the anarchists invaded the movement in the last 15 years.
Yes, the problem with the LIBertarian base of today is, a lack of morals, God is a Spaghetti monster they don't have to answer to.
Society be damned, I have the right to do as I please, and I'll decide just how far I infringe upon the Rights of others.

This is exactly how I see all "Libertarians" after talking to them. Get the government out of the way and let the good times roll will not run a society. For a small government to succeed the citizens themselves would have to take on enormous responsibility to make sure society does not destroy itself. Just look at our inner cities, there is very little law and government for those condemned to live in our inner cities, and what government is there is allowing those who do live there to destroy their community. Government is not telling them to destroy, but they are allowing it by giving the community what they ask for, crime free drugs, no charges for stealing, no imprisonment for criminals, etc.   

Quote from: Possum on September 17, 2022, 11:08:54 AMThis is exactly how I see all "Libertarians" after talking to them. Get the government out of the way and let the good times roll will not run a society. For a small government to succeed the citizens themselves would have to take on enormous responsibility to make sure society does not destroy itself. Just look at our inner cities, there is very little law and government for those condemned to live in our inner cities, and what government is there is allowing those who do live there to destroy their community. Government is not telling them to destroy, but they are allowing it by giving the community what they ask for, crime free drugs, no charges for stealing, no imprisonment for criminals, etc. 

Exactly, Anarchy!
This is why I posted their first platform and their second. The first read like pretty much Conservative values, the second and latest, reads pretty much like anarchism.

3.0 SECURING LIBERTY
In the United States, constitutional limits on government were intended to prevent the infringement of individual rights by those in power. The only proper purpose of government, should it exist, is the protection of individual rights. The principle of non-initiation of force should guide relationships between governments.

This thing reads like a 20 something with grandiose Unicorn Fart Ideals, wrote it.
They completely fail to understand human nature, and the law of the jungle.
They act as if some kumbaya Utopia will spring up and everyone will agree to their principles. Fuckin Dreamin!

https://www.lp.org/platform/

Quote from: Possum on September 17, 2022, 11:08:54 AMThis is exactly how I see all "Libertarians" after talking to them. Get the government out of the way and let the good times roll will not run a society. For a small government to succeed the citizens themselves would have to take on enormous responsibility to make sure society does not destroy itself. Just look at our inner cities, there is very little law and government for those condemned to live in our inner cities, and what government is there is allowing those who do live there to destroy their community. Government is not telling them to destroy, but they are allowing it by giving the community what they ask for, crime free drugs, no charges for stealing, no imprisonment for criminals, etc.   

I have to wonder, is it the citizens of this community asking for these things? Or is it the strongmen, the gangsters and thugs whom the government is giving what they ask for?