Quote from: taxed on July 28, 2013, 07:05:09 PM
He got us.  We are such staunch defenders of Mr. Pelosi...

After all this time being exposed to this person, not to mention seconds of meditation and 36 minutes of rather strong cocktails I have come to the conclusion that he is more worthless than Rick. Just as petty, just as bitter and just as desperate. Rick was lucky. He died. Sioux is stuck here with his anger.

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strenght

Pelosi is just speaking newspeak, the new language for a "better" society :P

Quote from: mdgiles on July 28, 2013, 03:17:22 PM
Okay, Ill bite. Why is the Federal Reserve Unconstitutional? Especially considering that The US government has been chartering central banks since the very first Congress.

With regards to the Federal Reserve, the contitutionality of paper as legal tender is quite clear in the constitution, but the federal reserve is still beholdent to congress even though congress choose not to excersize oversight/audit over the institution. The delegation of coinage to a subdirectorate private or state is not unconstitutional as I understand it as they would have to leave the application of coinage to a "directorate" but still have controll over it. My point is, I don't think the federal reserve is unconstitutional as long as they are beholdent to congress based on both the structure of the federal reserve and the wording of the constitution. Paper money on the other hand is unconstitutional. The Federal Reserve is split up into several banks that make up the cartell so it is not a central bank the same way Den Norske Bank or Deutche Bundesbank is a central bank.

The quotes of Benjamin Franklin, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln etc are good warnings of the dangers of central bank but they are not arguments for the unconstitutionality of the Federal Reserve.

I was a conspiracy nut before, believing all the central bankers/Rothschild quotes scattered on the internett, but the truth is that these don't have any sources or if they do the sources are highly controversial at best.

Quote from: Mountainshield on July 29, 2013, 03:43:14 AM
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strenght

Pelosi is just speaking newspeak, the new language for a "better" society :P

With regards to the Federal Reserve, the contitutionality of paper as legal tender is quite clear in the constitution, but the federal reserve is still beholdent to congress even though congress choose not to excersize oversight/audit over the institution. The delegation of coinage to a subdirectorate private or state is not unconstitutional as I understand it as they would have to leave the application of coinage to a "directorate" but still have controll over it. My point is, I don't think the federal reserve is unconstitutional as long as they are beholdent to congress based on both the structure of the federal reserve and the wording of the constitution. Paper money on the other hand is unconstitutional. The Federal Reserve is split up into several banks that make up the cartell so it is not a central bank the same way Den Norske Bank or Deutche Bundesbank is a central bank.

The quotes of Benjamin Franklin, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln etc are good warnings of the dangers of central bank but they are not arguments for the unconstitutionality of the Federal Reserve.

I was a conspiracy nut before, believing all the central bankers/Rothschild quotes scattered on the internett, but the truth is that these don't have any sources or if they do the sources are highly controversial at best.

Congress did not create the Federal Reserve! It is a private entity made to appear like it is a part of the federal government, just as was done with the Bank of England, which also is a private entity!.


Congress cannot simply just 'issue debt"! There is no debt to be issued when nothing is created, much less when nothing is transfered resulting in any sort of debt. Congress has the only authority to issue currency, and there is no debt involved in that currency, except for the printing and paper, and that is charged to the American people too, along with the value of the currency itself, and interest.

Debt is the product of an action, an exchange, and there is no debt due the Federal Reserve because it has no ownership of the currency it is printing! It is a fabricated debt that has no substance to it.

Congress has no authority under the constitution to transfer its power to a private entity and then allow that entity to charge a debt (owed to it) for currency that that entity itself has no authority to create, and creates no actual debt in the process.

Actually the Federal Reserve itself created a debt-based currency despite only the Congress having authority to create currency, and the Federal Reserve not legitimately acquiring any sort of debt obligation to it for the creation of that currency,  beyond the cost of services rendered, such as the paper, and ink and design, and some reasonable profit margin. But instead we, the American people, are being obligated to the debt for that currency printed, and interest upon it, as if it were real property owned entirely by the Federal Reserve, which is utterly false! If they federal reserve actually owned all the gold on the face of the earth, to base the value of that currency upon, then all this *might* be reasonable, but that is not the case, and even if it were, all of this would still be unnecessary!

And by that fractional reserve policy, we're not creating real wealth, but rather a debt obligation in disregard of real value and in conflict with the accumulation of real wealth, and far beyond the ability of the existent currency to ever repay! The result is a continuing diminishing of our standard of living by real wealth terms... while creating a perpetual servitude that can never be broken, cannot possibly be repaid in toto,  AND WE'RE PAYING FOR THIS "PRIVILEGE"!

Furthermore, this Ponzi scheme relies on an every increasing debt to increase the economy,  and this is why we endure such things as open borders, and alien amnesty - to keep advancing that Ponzi scheme.

There's no sort of "conspiracy theory" to this, but quite clearly abundant conspiracy.  This is the glaring corrupt fact of the ongoing criminal operation  which we are subject to in violation of law and Constitution, a process so corrupt that people have been murdered to protect its continuity.

Even though this is derailing this thread and should be its own thread in financial forum, I want to continue discussing the federal reserve, much more interesting than Pelosi no?

How do you define private entity?
Is it not a corporatist cartell just like the mayor oil companies in the sense that it is both private and governmental?
It certainly only deals with government as far as I know, even though the different banks are owned by private investors they are just like the state owned corporations subject of the government.

I want to seperate the issue of debt and Federal Reserve to begin with, as chronologically it doesn't make sense to argue the Fed as it stands now and how it was created and operated before. Even though debasement of the dollar started in 1913, the actual linking of gold and the US currency was not cut until 1973.

My analogy is to the United States Mint that is governmental directorate in the classical sense which has dealt with the application of coinage since 1792. The Federal Reserve, despite being "private" is still beholden to the Congress just like the US Mint, the major difference originally is that the Congress chooses not to audit the Federal Reserve, most likely because they being politicians would not benefit from it, but motivation or lack of motivation aside can not Congress dissolve/abolish the Federal Reserve if they wanted too? And if so is it not false to say that congress can not constitutionally delegate their authority to this institution in the same way they delegated it to the US mint?

Does Congress have the authority under it's coinage power to debase the value of the dollar if it chooses to do so?
If yes then how is the inflationary spending/debt currency of the Federal Reserve unconstitutional?

Regarding your point about the system being unbreakable, it would seem to me history shows this is not true. Politics is redistribution of wealth, and even though i'm quoting Mao here there is much truth to political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Germany has stopped it's inflation by changing to a new currency the Deutche Mark after the failed reichsmark and papiermark. This change was largely due to change in political power through force. Not saying the economy would not go through hell before it would grow again, but it is not impossible to restructure the currency.

Quote from: Shenanigans on July 28, 2013, 03:00:48 PM
Well, it would also make the Federal Reserve Board unConstitutional, and it would make the law requiring a budget from the President unConstitutional, and it would make about 80% of what Congress does unConstitutional.

And that is a bad thing how?

Quote from: Shenanigans on July 28, 2013, 04:36:06 PM
Do you have any idea of how wealthy "Mr. Pelosi" is, and how much of that has been accrued since Mrs. Pelosi entered politics?

            I didn't mean poor like in wealth silly rabbit, I meant poor soul.

Quote from: Bronx on July 29, 2013, 02:17:43 PM
            I didn't mean poor like in wealth silly rabbit, I meant poor soul.

Obviously he is happier then you, and your fellow travelers, who have not had a decent word to say about the post I made.

Having said that, I know exactly what you meant which is why I put his name, correctly spelled, in quotation marks.

Quote from: Bronx on July 29, 2013, 02:17:43 PM
            I didn't mean poor like in wealth silly rabbit, I meant poor soul.

hahahahahaha

Midget wrestling - face slide tastic! (THE ORIGINAL)