Quote from: drjim893 on July 28, 2014, 08:56:23 AM
Keyboarder,

We the people elected Obama president twice, so pardon me if i remain unimpressed with your fist of power.

Here's the thing, and i repeat...we will not be deporting 11 million folks, and if you think otherwise you live in a fantasy reality. Sorry to say it, but there is zero chance of accomplishing what you desire.

Sure, it is fun to say what crazy you would do if you were in charge, but there are good reasons why you are not in charge, and the adults know what you do not grasp...it just ain't gonna happen.

On the other hand, why not fight for realistic goals, like ID's that track these folks, real penalties against employers hiring illegals.

It just seems to me, accomplsihing real change is better than demanding impossible change.

First of all, WE didn't do anything towards getting the poser elected, only dim-wit dems and rino-azzed cons did that number. 

Second, I've got one of those "feelings" like you're having about the illegals only my feeling is that they might just prefer being buried as to taking their azzes home.

Third, I've never said that I would like to be in charge or named one crazy-azzed thing that I would do if I were in charge.  My question is, what the hell are you smoking?  You and the "rest" of the so-called adults need to get off the sauce or whatever you're on......but wait, your little latino pals will be furnishing you all your hearts desire of that stuff-can't be interfering with their advent in our world. 

Realistic goals?  The number one goal anyone should have is getting this administration to quit breaking the law.  The laws should not be altered to give illegals access to our country.  No talks about amnesty or citizenship to anyone except those that are here legally and can prove that they have been here legally since before 2012.  That would cut some of the influx out.  Anyone here after Bozo started his second term gets their but sent back home. 

Ankle bracelets can be cut off and they would be.  If a big ole' thing like the Rio Grande didn't stop them, what good would a removable bracelet do?  That's not only silly, it's naive and dumb.

Real change will start by getting rid of the likes of Bozo and crew.

Well what is realistic and what is not?

Maybe, just maybe, we could get legislation after 40 years of not getting it, that would punish employers for hiring illegals...no jobs, no reason to stay. That is possible, but I don't think congress even has a bill in the hopper to that effect today, so why would anyone thing it likely?

As for massive deportation, nice thought, but again there is not any movement to that effect at all in congress and this is not exactly a new problem. Read the polling, the majority support either a citizenship path or legalization, and that means it highly unlikely deportation can happen. So while you cite my speculation, and it is that, my speculation is based upon observing real events.

You cannot win anything demanding the impossible, but you can bring about change with smaller increments.

Conservatives have to decide if it is better to be right but accomplish nothing, or to be pragmatic and make real gains.

Quote from: drjim893 on July 28, 2014, 03:17:56 PM
Well what is realistic and what is not?

Maybe, just maybe, we could get legislation after 40 years of not getting it, that would punish employers for hiring illegals...no jobs, no reason to stay. That is possible, but I don't think congress even has a bill in the hopper to that effect today, so why would anyone thing it likely?

As for massive deportation, nice thought, but again there is not any movement to that effect at all in congress and this is not exactly a new problem. Read the polling, the majority support either a citizenship path or legalization, and that means it highly unlikely deportation can happen. So while you cite my speculation, and it is that, my speculation is based upon observing real events.

You cannot win anything demanding the impossible, but you can bring about change with smaller increments.

Conservatives have to decide if it is better to be right but accomplish nothing, or to be pragmatic and make real gains.

Link?

Things have changed. Illegal Immigration is now the NUMBER ONE PROBLEM facing the USA.  Besides, what he's quoting comes with a lot of conditions that illegals could never meet. It's all in how you ask the question.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/173306/one-six-say-immigration-important-problem.aspx?ref=image#1

Quote from: drjim893 on July 28, 2014, 03:17:56 PM
Well what is realistic and what is not?

Maybe, just maybe, we could get legislation after 40 years of not getting it, that would punish employers for hiring illegals...no jobs, no reason to stay. That is possible, but I don't think congress even has a bill in the hopper to that effect today, so why would anyone thing it likely?

As for massive deportation, nice thought, but again there is not any movement to that effect at all in congress and this is not exactly a new problem. Read the polling, the majority support either a citizenship path or legalization, and that means it highly unlikely deportation can happen. So while you cite my speculation, and it is that, my speculation is based upon observing real events.

You cannot win anything demanding the impossible, but you can bring about change with smaller increments.

Conservatives have to decide if it is better to be right but accomplish nothing, or to be pragmatic and make real gains.

OK, one final comment.
Let me be less harsh than much wiser heads have been,
about your idle speculations but suggest you are prisoner
of static thinking, specifically; because an event has not
occurred one must infer that it will never occur. Surely
you're not so obtuse that you fail grasp that this is
beyond preposterous. You and Socrates would have had
an amusing debate.
Lastly, your assertion that Conservatives have to decide
between  being right and achieving something (pragmatism)
is the same old secular progressive siren song on offer
every 4 years from the establishment GOP leadership and
as a consequence, Republicans predictably, get neither.
What is abundantly clear is that you are hardly a principled
conservative.

Quote from: drjim893 on July 28, 2014, 03:17:56 PM
Well what is realistic and what is not?

Maybe, just maybe, we could get legislation after 40 years of not getting it, that would punish employers for hiring illegals...no jobs, no reason to stay. That is possible, but I don't think congress even has a bill in the hopper to that effect today, so why would anyone thing it likely?

It is today illegal in every state of the union to hire an illegal immigrant for any reason to do any job. Read carefully: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/penalties-for-employers-hiring-illegal-immigrants.html

Quote from: drjim893 on July 28, 2014, 03:17:56 PMAs for massive deportation, nice thought, but again there is not any movement to that effect at all in congress and this is not exactly a new problem. Read the polling, the majority support either a citizenship path or legalization, and that means it highly unlikely deportation can happen. So while you cite my speculation, and it is that, my speculation is based upon observing real events.

You can't be serious.

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/july_2014/most_voters_want_to_send_latest_illegal_immigrants_home_asap

http://conservativetribune.com/deport-more-illegals/

http://www.fairus.org/facts/illegal-immigration-and-amnesty-polls

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/07/huge_majority_of_americans_want_the_illegal_alien_kids_to_go_home.html

Quote from: drjim893 on July 28, 2014, 03:17:56 PMYou cannot win anything demanding the impossible, but you can bring about change with smaller increments.

"Smaller increments" may be the progressive style. I like absolutes a whole lot more. Shut off the border. That's not impossible; it simply hasn't been done. Send the kids back, every damn one of them. That's not impossible; it simply hasn't been tried, and even talking about it is ridiculed in the circles you inhabit. Don't tell me it can't be done when you're not even willing to try.

Quote from: drjim893 on July 28, 2014, 03:17:56 PMConservatives have to decide if it is better to be right but accomplish nothing, or to be pragmatic and make real gains.

Liberal/progressives would be well-advised to ease up when it comes to telling us what we "have to" or "need to" do. It has not escaped our notice that being "pragmatic" on your terms involves a lot of caving.

Quote from: TboneAgain on July 28, 2014, 04:51:53 PM
It is today illegal in every state of the union to hire an illegal immigrant for any reason to do any job. Read carefully: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/penalties-for-employers-hiring-illegal-immigrants.html
You can't be serious.

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/july_2014/most_voters_want_to_send_latest_illegal_immigrants_home_asap

http://conservativetribune.com/deport-more-illegals/

http://www.fairus.org/facts/illegal-immigration-and-amnesty-polls

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/07/huge_majority_of_americans_want_the_illegal_alien_kids_to_go_home.html
"Smaller increments" may be the progressive style. I like absolutes a whole lot more. Shut off the border. That's not impossible; it simply hasn't been done. Send the kids back, every damn one of them. That's not impossible; it simply hasn't been tried, and even talking about it is ridiculed in the circles you inhabit. Don't tell me it can't be done when you're not even willing to try.
Liberal/progressives would be well-advised to ease up when it comes to telling us what we "have to" or "need to" do. It has not escaped our notice that being "pragmatic" on your terms involves a lot of caving.

Quote from: drjim893 on July 28, 2014, 03:17:56 PM
Well what is realistic and what is not?

Maybe, just maybe, we could get legislation after 40 years of not getting it, that would punish employers for hiring illegals...no jobs, no reason to stay. That is possible, but I don't think congress even has a bill in the hopper to that effect today, so why would anyone thing it likely?

As for massive deportation, nice thought, but again there is not any movement to that effect at all in congress and this is not exactly a new problem. Read the polling, the majority support either a citizenship path or legalization, and that means it highly unlikely deportation can happen. So while you cite my speculation, and it is that, my speculation is based upon observing real events.

You cannot win anything demanding the impossible, but you can bring about change with smaller increments.

Conservatives have to decide if it is better to be right but accomplish nothing, or to be pragmatic and make real gains.

Such laws already exist, on the books.

The problem, once again folks, is not one in which we need "new law".

The problem is with a total lack of enforcement of already existent law.


Start enforcing already existent law, THEN we can talk about new legislation.

Quote from: taxed on July 28, 2014, 04:53:40 PM

When I'm awarded a bitch-slap from your direction, I take it as the high praise it is. Thank ya, folks, thank ya. 

Quote from: drjim893 on July 28, 2014, 03:17:56 PM
Well what is realistic and what is not?

Maybe, just maybe, we could get legislation after 40 years of not getting it, that would punish employers for hiring illegals...no jobs, no reason to stay. That is possible, but I don't think congress even has a bill in the hopper to that effect today, so why would anyone thing it likely?

As for massive deportation, nice thought, but again there is not any movement to that effect at all in congress and this is not exactly a new problem. Read the polling, the majority support either a citizenship path or legalization, and that means it highly unlikely deportation can happen. So while you cite my speculation, and it is that, my speculation is based upon observing real events.

You cannot win anything demanding the impossible, but you can bring about change with smaller increments.

Conservatives have to decide if it is better to be right but accomplish nothing, or to be pragmatic and make real gains.

Jim, you need to use the quote function so others can follow the conversation.
If you don't know how, just ask.

Question: say you are an impoverished single parent of a child in Mexico, and you were dying from a terminal illness.  You have relatives up in America that can take this child in.  Your kid is very smart, hard working, etc, etc, but Mexico is a shithole with no good schools or much social mobility.

If you were given the opportunity to smuggle your kid through to the States, would you do it?  And if not, what the fuck is Plan B?  Your kid is basically fucked for the horrible crime of having been born by random probability into a shithole.  The conservative rhetoric of "you're poor because you didn't work hard enough!" doesn't really apply here.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 28, 2014, 08:20:17 PM
Question: say you are an impoverished single parent of a child in Mexico, and you were dying from a terminal illness.  You have relatives up in America that can take this child in.  Your kid is very smart, hard working, etc, etc, but Mexico is a shithole with no good schools or much social mobility.

If you were given the opportunity to smuggle your kid through to the States, would you do it?  And if not, what the fuck is Plan B?  Your kid is basically fucked for the horrible crime of having been born by random probability into a shithole.  The conservative rhetoric of "you're poor because you didn't work hard enough!" doesn't really apply here.

Bleeding hearts are sure making the floor slippery around here. Let the kid remain in the country of his or her birth. We don't need or want any more welfare dependents sucking up tax money.

Quote from: quiller on July 28, 2014, 08:38:24 PM
Bleeding hearts are sure making the floor slippery around here.

You dodged the question.  If it were your kid that was stuck in Mexico, what would you do?

Quote
Let the kid remain in the country of his or her birth. We don't need or want any more welfare dependents sucking up tax money.

Funny, since America is a nation of immigrants.  On your own principle, you would never have been born.

    

Protesters Swarm Beacon Hill, 'Livid' Over Illegal Immigration.

snip~
While Bree Sison of CBS Boston estimated that the gathering drew hundreds of people, Jeff Kuhner, the host of WRKO's The Kuhner Report, who organized the rally, put the number closer to 10,000 people.

People carrying signs that said "Deport illegals," and "Americans before illegals" stood just outside the State House from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m.

more @
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2014/07/26/hundreds-attend-anti-illegal-immigration-rally-beacon-hill/tEgyzS5TE5Z6YiI8VBP6aP/story.html

You know, you can try as hard as you can to justify why children born by chance into another country are less worthy of human rights than children born by chance into the United States, but you'll fail.  You'll fail because it's complete bullshit, because Guilt by Association is a concept subscribed to only by pre-enlightenment knuckle dragging neanderthals.  It's especially pathetic, because most of you here were born Americans and did not earn your citizenship by any means, yet you think you are somehow uniquely entitled to it for the enormous accomplishment of being born.