Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 08, 2012, 11:16:29 PM
I disagree. 


You should re-look at the facts.

http://www.drudge.com/archive/153261/bush-auto-bailouts-id-do-again
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20013452-503544.html
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/07/10342178-bush-on-auto-bailouts-id-do-it-again?lite



I don't see how anyone can look past greed as being Our biggest issue and simply point straight to a certain group of People as being Our largest problem. 

Placing blame on one another like that is what staunch party folk do to one another and that, sadly, keeps Corporate America capable of destroying us from the inside out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us/politics/22scotus.html?pagewanted=all

Your attempt at sleight of hand using Bush as a distraction from the Marxist policies of Hussein, simply falls flat.
Most of us here hated Bush policy, the guy was and still is a Full Blown RINO.
Hussein is Hell bent on the destruction of the country, and you focus on the past?
Come on son, snap out of it, put down the pitcher and back away from the Kool Aid.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 09, 2012, 12:05:01 AM
Than We have that in common for I too am a productive member of society, feeling far less young by the day.

Liberals aren't productive.  They are destructive.

Quote

And I provided links/evidence, You should read up on reality a bit.

You are doing a good job providing links.  Now, I need you to work on providing links that are relevant.

Quote
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/07/10342178-bush-on-auto-bailouts-id-do-it-again?lite

"I'd do it again," proclaimed Bush, speaking to the annual convention of the National Automobile Dealers Association.
The bailout, which ultimately totaled $85 billion, was originally begun during the waning days of the Bush administration. With a specific rescue effort rejected by Congress, the former Commander-in-Chief decided to tap into a separate, $700 billion fund Capitol Hill did approve for the bailout of Wall Street and the banking industry.
"Sometimes circumstances get in the way of philosophy," said the ex-president

You can post links on Bush's bad policy all you want, but this doesn't prove your claim that Bush was the first to bail out companies.  Keep trying.

Quote


Anytime an 'allocation of capital is combined with self-management' greed is present. From the Liberal big government to the conservative free market. The problem is the peoples perversion of an idea in search for self interest.

Spoken like an uninformed liberal.  Please explain what "allocation of capital" means, and how the free market hurts.

Quote
And lots of damage that needs to be reigned in, or , kept in check.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/category/gulf-coast-oil-spill/

Mistakes happen.  This has nothing to do with greed.

Quote
Giving corporations unlimited ability on top of their already unlimited ability just takes more, in the long run, from the hard working Men and Women of this Country. Yes, big business creates jobs, but whats that really matter when they're creating it with money they've stolen, or "been given", from us?

Please elaborate what you are trying to say.  It doesn't make sense.

Quote from: kramarat on July 09, 2012, 04:16:18 AM
Why are you talking about Bush? He's history.

Yep. He made mistakes and he spent way too much money. Case closed.

What Bush did not do, was spend a lifetime aligning himself with radical Marxists. I'd site proof, but I have to go to work today, and I don't have time to list all of Obama's radical ties.

Radical ties really don't out way financial ones, unless they're both.  I brought up Bush to prove the point that Conservatives and Dems are both spending way to much because both political sides are bought.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 09, 2012, 09:36:39 AM

Radical ties really don't out way financial ones, unless they're both.  I brought up Bush to prove the point that Conservatives and Dems are both spending way to much because both political sides are bought.

Bush isn't a conservative.  Why is this difficult for you to comprehend?

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 09, 2012, 09:36:39 AM

Radical ties really don't out way financial ones, unless they're both.  I brought up Bush to prove the point that Conservatives and Dems are both spending way to much because both political sides are bought.

I don't think you will find a Conservative on the board that does not think that both have for over the last 35 + years. 

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 08:14:36 AM
Liberals aren't productive.  They are destructive.

Everyone is capable of being destructive, Liberals and Conservatives alike.
A true Liberal, IMO,  wants to help others as often as possible, which can be destructive because they tend to look past reality -v- resources. A true conservative can be destructive by conserving everything for the Few allowing little to nothing for the Many.

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 08:14:36 AM
You are doing a good job providing links.  Now, I need you to work on providing links that are relevant.

I've provided relevant links.   Bush started the bailouts of recent years and Obama ran with them.   You should read up on it, it's not good, and hopefully, if We educate the public, it will not keep recurring.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,428921,00.html

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 08:14:36 AM
You can post links on Bush's bad policy all you want, but this doesn't prove your claim that Bush was the first to bail out companies.  Keep trying.

The links are just links to articles written about the fact that Bush enacted the Bailouts of recent years.  If You have other info on the matter please share, I will read it and then We can converse about it.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16740.html

"President George W. Bush stepped in Friday to keep America's auto industry afloat, announcing a $17.4 billion bailout for GM and Chrysler"...

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 08:14:36 AM
Spoken like an uninformed liberal.  Please explain what "allocation of capital" means, and how the free market hurts.

I disagree.  Thus far You've merely attacked my links , and Me by alluding to My age being a factor of My thinking, not to mention calling Me an "uniformed Liberal". What I wrote up there is in English, You should be able to read it all, and the links posted, cause it seems You write in English rather well.

Sorry Taxed, it's just that You've given little more than "try harder" or "keep trying" and that doesn't make for a good debate or conversation. You seem of average or greater intelligence, so , if You'd just put Your distaste for a certain group of people aside, We may actually be able to have a good conversation here.   

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 08:14:36 AM
Mistakes happen.  This has nothing to do with greed.

That's why We need fewer corrupt individuals watching over the companies that can cause so much damage. Because You're right, "Mistakes happen", and when billion dollar businesses are the ones causing them they tend to be very, VERY big "mistakes."

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 08:14:36 AM
Please elaborate what you are trying to say.  It doesn't make sense.

And again, please re-read, and "try a little harder" this time.   

Quote from: walkstall on July 09, 2012, 09:43:35 AM

I don't think you will find a Conservative on the board that does not think that both have for over the last 35 + years.

Glad We all can agree there than. 

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 09, 2012, 01:43:15 PM


Glad We all can agree there than. 

Do not count on the "We all can agree" part!  lol   What I think is not always what 100 % of Conservatives way of thinking is, only my own.   But then in my own little world I am right.   

Quote from: walkstall on July 09, 2012, 01:56:49 PM

Do not count on the "We all can agree" part!  lol   What I think is not always what 100 % of Conservatives way of thinking is, only my own.   But then in my own little world I am right.   

Sounds like an alright place, T,  glad We can agree there then. 

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 09, 2012, 01:42:07 PM
Everyone is capable of being destructive, Liberals and Conservatives alike.
A true Liberal, IMO,  wants to help others as often as possible, which can be destructive because they tend to look past reality -v- resources.

Liberals by nature are anti-American, so they have a desire to destroy our defenses and traditions.

Quote
A true conservative can be destructive by conserving everything for the Few allowing little to nothing for the Many.

That is not true.  Feel free to elaborate on how that is possible.

Quote
I've provided relevant links.   Bush started the bailouts of recent years and Obama ran with them.   You should read up on it, it's not good, and hopefully, if We educate the public, it will not keep recurring.

Now you change it... 

Quote
The links are just links to articles written about the fact that Bush enacted the Bailouts of recent years.  If You have other info on the matter please share, I will read it and then We can converse about it.

I did not dispute Bush signed TARP.  I disputed Bush was the first, which you insisted on.  Now you change your story after you figured out that Bush wasn't the first to bail out companies.

Quote
I disagree.  Thus far You've merely attacked my links , and Me by alluding to My age being a factor of My thinking, not to mention calling Me an "uniformed Liberal". What I wrote up there is in English, You should be able to read it all, and the links posted, cause it seems You write in English rather well.

Again, please elaborate on "allocation of capital".  What does that mean?  It should be easy for you.

Quote
Sorry Taxed, it's just that You've given little more than "try harder" or "keep trying" and that doesn't make for a good debate or conversation. You seem of average or greater intelligence, so , if You'd just put Your distaste for a certain group of people aside, We may actually be able to have a good conversation here.   

We can have a good conversation, but you need to do simple things like explain concepts like "allocation of capital" and not dismiss it as if it has some sort of meaning.  A good rule of thumb is if you don't know what something means or how to defend it, then don't post it.

Quote
That's why We need fewer corrupt individuals watching over the companies that can cause so much damage. Because You're right, "Mistakes happen", and when billion dollar businesses are the ones causing them they tend to be very, VERY big "mistakes."

If left to the free market, sans government, a business that does stupid things or makes big mistakes goes out of business.

If left to the free market, sans government, a business that does stupid things or makes big mistakes goes out of business.


That's exactly right. Everybody was under the impression that GM would close the doors without a bailout, which is BS.
They could have gone into bankruptcy protection and renegotiated their union contracts. The government bailout screwed a lot of people and put the unions in the drivers seat.

I don't care who's president.........................no more bailouts. Period.

Quote from: kramarat on July 09, 2012, 02:34:01 PM
If left to the free market, sans government, a business that does stupid things or makes big mistakes goes out of business.


That's exactly right. Everybody was under the impression that GM would close the doors without a bailout, which is BS.
They could have gone into bankruptcy protection and renegotiated their union contracts. The government bailout screwed a lot of people and put the unions in the drivers seat.

I don't care who's president.........................no more bailouts. Period.

Right on!

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 02:37:47 PM
Right on!

In a free market economy, the best way to keep big businesses from failing, is to let them know that there's no help, if they do.

As these people are finding out. Climbing into bed wth the government is a lifetime deal. It's akin to selling your soul to the devil.

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 02:10:19 PM
Liberals by nature are anti-American, so they have a desire to destroy our defenses and traditions.
That is not true.  Feel free to elaborate on how that is possible.

Liberals by nature are anti-American? Please feel free to elaborate as well.  And please, the "they want to destroy Our defense and tradition argument is false".

Honestly, Liberals seem to want to allow more money to better things than bombs, and that makes perfect sense. They also preserve Our traditions a bit better than the conservatives, lol, We're a land created by illegal immigrants and those damn Liberals love them to pieces. 

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 02:10:19 PM
Now you change it... 

I never said there weren't bailouts before Bush and Obama. I just said that Bush started bailouts that Obama ran with. 

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 02:10:19 PM
I did not dispute Bush signed TARP.  I disputed Bush was the first, which you insisted on.  Now you change your story after you figured out that Bush wasn't the first to bail out companies.

I was saying that both conservatives and Libs were spending to much and then I used the two Presidents for reference.
If You're really trying to say that I meant Bush is the first to bailout fat cats in history than You misunderstood, Or maybe I should specify the obvious a bit more. 

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 02:10:19 PM
Again, please elaborate on "allocation of capital".  What does that mean?  It should be easy for you.

Here, I said - "Anytime an 'allocation of capital is combined with self-management' greed is present. From the Liberal big government to the conservative free market. The problem is the peoples perversion of an idea in search for self interest. "

What I'm saying is that We are a nation that gives blank checks to big businesses, there's no "free market" its bought and paid for by the little guy then the little guy is forced to buy it again, at higher rate of course.   


Im saying that We are being screwed.

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 02:10:19 PM
We can have a good conversation, but you need to do simple things like explain concepts like "allocation of capital" and not dismiss it as if it has some sort of meaning.  A good rule of thumb is if you don't know what something means or how to defend it, then don't post it.

I shouldn't have to defend the obvious. A good rule would really be expect to be grilled by taxed over obvious things because taxed wants to argue. 

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2012, 02:10:19 PM
If left to the free market, sans government, a business that does stupid things or makes big mistakes goes out of business.

And that^ would be great, but it's not what happens, it's not reality.  You're arguing for fiction, not unlike the Liberal who argues for world peace.   

Quote from: kramarat on July 09, 2012, 02:51:16 PM
In a free market economy, the best way to keep big businesses from failing, is to let them know that there's no help, if they do.

As these people are finding out. Climbing into bed wth the government is a lifetime deal. It's akin to selling your soul to the devil.

Exactly.  Liberals have no clue how business or the economy works.  It is very sad.  I don't mind them being stupid, because we need fry cooks, but it's sad that they can vote.