Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 03, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
We expected you ignore what your source actually says...

LOL!

EVIL CORPORATIONS!!!!

I remember watching Becks' original broadcasts tying Hitler's propaganda to the Progressive movement, and even indications by Goebbels that he owed his methods to the Wilson administration.

Wilson promoted the idea that US constitution was outmoded and in need of replacing with a new "living constitution." This was picked up by FDR's proposed innovation was a new "economic bill of rights" which included:

●  The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation.
●  The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment.
●  The right of every family to a decent home.
●  The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation.


These, and more,  are all congruent with the ideas being advanced by the National Socialists in Germany under Hitler - the Nazis.   Conspicuously, none of these are actual rights at all,  but they do bear a striking resemblance to the entitlements (such as Health Care) that today's Progressives are enslaving us to the state with.


The employ of Nazi Germany of advanced propaganda methods honed by the early American Progressives is undeniable. We  even have Hitler's own Propaganda minister, Goebbels, accrediting the Wilson administration for teaching it how to engage propaganda.


The discussion By Beck of this Progressive propaganda goes back to, and before, the National Recover Administration (Act), NRA,  with the NRA being promoted then as an "American" ideal, when it was nothing of the sort,  with stores having to display the NRA sign in their windows in order to be frequented by shoppers.  The NRA itself was a gross progressive propaganda effort.  We've seen this same method applied today from government agencies like DHS's "See Something, Say Something" propaganda campaign employed at Walmart.

"Ihre papiere, bitte!" (Your papers, please!)


This is truly scary stuff, and is not at all America's ideology of freedom.

The NRA actually involved the centralized government dictate of the economy (Keynesian) and industrial production,  as well as actively promoting the ties of industry with the government (just as in Nazi Germany), and allowing, promoting and designing the monopolistic collusion of manufacturing areas, such as automobile production, or tires, etc, entirely in conflict with previous Trust and monopoly breaking previously in this country, so as to support those Utopian ideals shown in bullets, above.   

Courtesy of this Progressive movement, and the dictate of the economy, we suffer even today from the government's gross corruption and abuse of the Constitution's A1S8 authority to "regulate Interstate commerce", and being able to dictate what crops a farmer could grow (even to feed his own farm animals), or the most recent prosecution of 15 Amish cutting the hair and bears of other Amish under federal hate crime legislation... because the trimmers used had been manufactured in one state, and used in another!


What is fascinating to watch is the current active propaganda program being engaged RIGHT NOW from the Left, across the Internet, that has led to repeated accusations of Beck being a Nazi, claiming he is promoting Nazi ideals (despite this being nowhere in evidence),  and even accusing Beck's more recent "Man on the Moon" presentation of promoting Nazi memorabilia.

You can watch almost in real-time today's Left Marxist Progressives actually promoting a brand new propaganda effort, since 2008, against Beck, and employing active historic revisionism  that the NRA was actually the "American" view, and that Ford didn't get government contracts, not because he didn't support the NRA, not because Ford refused to abide by dictated prices,  but because Ford was an antisemite, had his manufacturing methods recognized by pre-WWII Nazi Germany,  and by these tissue-thin ideas, Ford was himself a Nazi!.   

Here is one scary video, using insane Orwellian reversals,  claiming  (of Beck), "REICH PROPAGANDA OUTLET ATTEMPTS TO 'BRAINWASH' AMERICAN PUBLIC ABOUT NAZIS."

This all circles back to the Left's dishonest and inaccurate distortion that the Nazis were a radical "right wing" movement, when the Nazis were entirely a leftist national socialist movement having nothing whatsoever to do with "the Right" ideology at all.   

Just as is seen by today's Progressives, the Nazis were trying to dictate the terms of society (and the world) to be achieved through  the collusion of industry and government.

Like I said earlier, each side has its own propaganda machine, and each side can argue effectively the use of propaganda. It all boils down to who's ox is being gored.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/conservative-medias-propaganda-problem/

This seems to be a problem that happens regardless of the party in power. When there is a Republican administration, many conservative media outlets seem to consider it their responsibility to act as its boosters, almost regardless of what it does, instead of working to hold it accountable. If that means redefining conservatism or spinning bad news to suit the temporary needs of the administration, then that is what often happens. When there is a Democratic administration, the same outlets may want to hold it accountable, but they also often feel obliged to endorse a fantasy, alarmist version of administration actions that make it much more difficult for non-partisans to take their objections and criticism seriously. The anti-Hagel campaign promoted a lot of nonsensical, alarmist claims in the name of transparency and oversight, but in doing so it was just continuing a pattern of bad-faith attacks that have been going on for over four years. It's a bad habit based partly in the need to outrage and horrify the audience in order to boost their numbers, but it's also based on the assumption that the other "side" is so biased that they are released from their obligations to be accurate and fair as well. The belief seems to be that "all's fair in propaganda," which is exactly what conservative media outlets should not be trying to produce in the first place.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/01/30/wing-propaganda-incite-fear-hated-americans.html

What Americans are witnessing today is the culmination of four years of ultra-right wing propaganda inciting fear of change and hatred for other Americans; all Americans. There is no doubt that people who might have been decent human beings at one point, have been poisoned by the incessant fear mongering and attacks on "the other" that represents a changing America, and America is changing and that is conservative's problem. There is no doubt Republicans in Congress hate Americans, they prove it with every proposal, obstruction, and Draconian legislation they attempt to pass, but they would never attempt such inhumane measures if they did not have a large segment of the population sharing their hate for their fellow citizens. But as  America changes, those who either cannot let go of the America that kept minorities and women in submissive roles, or harken back to a fallacy era where the Ten Commandments were immutable edicts on morality, are finding themselves in a fearful situation. The danger is when frightened people feel loss, and when your politician, television news, and church tells you change endangers your way of life, fear and loss give way to hate and anger; the result is America with a large segment of anti-government religious racists with guns and  four years of hate looking for an outlet they are finding in Republican policies and on America's streets.

http://www.nationinstitute.org/featuredwork/books/1665/big_lies%3A_the_right-wing_propaganda_machine_and_how_it_distorts_the_truth/

In Big Lies, Joe Conason rips through the ten most damaging lies perpetrated by the right wing propaganda machine. This scathing, fact-filled analysis debunks it all:

- The myth that Republicans are fiscal geniuses and champions of free enterprise.
- The right's self-proclaimed monopoly on "family values."
- The conservative smearing of liberals as unpatriotic and anti-American.
- And of course, the "compassionate conservatism" of George W. Bush. (It depends on the meaning of "compassionate.")

Big Lies confronts right-wing slander and bias with a long-awaited, badly-needed counterpunch to the deceptions that have plagued American politics for a generation.
- Conservatives are paragons of moral rectitude.
- Elitist liberals control the media.
- George W. Bush is a compassionate conservative.
- Republicans know how to run the economy.
- Democrats are spendthrifts who bust budgets.
- Bill Clinton is the root of all evil.
- Tough right-wingers never coddle terrorists.

Quote from: Shenanigans on August 04, 2013, 07:12:27 AM

Like I said earlier, each side has its own propaganda machine, and each side can argue effectively the use of propaganda. It all boils down to who's ox is being gored.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/conservative-medias-propaganda-problem/

This seems to be a problem that happens regardless of the party in power. When there is a Republican administration, many conservative media outlets seem to consider it their responsibility to act as its boosters, almost regardless of what it does, instead of working to hold it accountable. If that means redefining conservatism or spinning bad news to suit the temporary needs of the administration, then that is what often happens. When there is a Democratic administration, the same outlets may want to hold it accountable, but they also often feel obliged to endorse a fantasy, alarmist version of administration actions that make it much more difficult for non-partisans to take their objections and criticism seriously. The anti-Hagel campaign promoted a lot of nonsensical, alarmist claims in the name of transparency and oversight, but in doing so it was just continuing a pattern of bad-faith attacks that have been going on for over four years. It's a bad habit based partly in the need to outrage and horrify the audience in order to boost their numbers, but it's also based on the assumption that the other "side" is so biased that they are released from their obligations to be accurate and fair as well. The belief seems to be that "all's fair in propaganda," which is exactly what conservative media outlets should not be trying to produce in the first place.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/01/30/wing-propaganda-incite-fear-hated-americans.html

What Americans are witnessing today is the culmination of four years of ultra-right wing propaganda inciting fear of change and hatred for other Americans; all Americans. There is no doubt that people who might have been decent human beings at one point, have been poisoned by the incessant fear mongering and attacks on "the other" that represents a changing America, and America is changing and that is conservative's problem. There is no doubt Republicans in Congress hate Americans, they prove it with every proposal, obstruction, and Draconian legislation they attempt to pass, but they would never attempt such inhumane measures if they did not have a large segment of the population sharing their hate for their fellow citizens. But as  America changes, those who either cannot let go of the America that kept minorities and women in submissive roles, or harken back to a fallacy era where the Ten Commandments were immutable edicts on morality, are finding themselves in a fearful situation. The danger is when frightened people feel loss, and when your politician, television news, and church tells you change endangers your way of life, fear and loss give way to hate and anger; the result is America with a large segment of anti-government religious racists with guns and  four years of hate looking for an outlet they are finding in Republican policies and on America's streets.

http://www.nationinstitute.org/featuredwork/books/1665/big_lies%3A_the_right-wing_propaganda_machine_and_how_it_distorts_the_truth/

In Big Lies, Joe Conason rips through the ten most damaging lies perpetrated by the right wing propaganda machine. This scathing, fact-filled analysis debunks it all:

- The myth that Republicans are fiscal geniuses and champions of free enterprise.
- The right's self-proclaimed monopoly on "family values."
- The conservative smearing of liberals as unpatriotic and anti-American.
- And of course, the "compassionate conservatism" of George W. Bush. (It depends on the meaning of "compassionate.")

Big Lies confronts right-wing slander and bias with a long-awaited, badly-needed counterpunch to the deceptions that have plagued American politics for a generation.
- Conservatives are paragons of moral rectitude.
- Elitist liberals control the media.
- George W. Bush is a compassionate conservative.
- Republicans know how to run the economy.
- Democrats are spendthrifts who bust budgets.
- Bill Clinton is the root of all evil.
- Tough right-wingers never coddle terrorists.

WTF????

Did somebody tell you this was a republican forum?

Scathing, fact filled analysis?

Holy shit..................

Shenanigans.

What the hell is that nonsense? I have no idea what part of that is your own writing, if any at all,  and what part of it is drawn out of the links, that seem to be there for nothing more than breaks in the text.

You do know how to actually present an argument, much less one of your own, right? 

Is part of your argument that each of those links (and the text following them) are actually accurate?  Because that's utter bull****.

Is part of your argument that there is actually some sort of physical law of  "propaganda parity" between the Right and the Left? It appears so, and that is an utterly false, and ridiculous nonsense.

The Left is the ones that rely on big government,  and big media has been conspicuously running cover for the big government's  gross lies and misrepresentations. 

Furthermore, while the Right are obviously not angels (and no one is saying they are), at least the Right aspires to some sort of standards, where as the Left has no real standards, and not only does not support this country's principles, but is only hostile to them. And the Left makes up what is its "standards" on the fly, and then force-feeds us with enormous volumes of choking propaganda regarding those dishonest standards.

In point of fact, your entire post is nothing but "Exhibit A" of propaganda dishonesty.

Quote from: Trip on August 04, 2013, 07:34:27 AM
Shenanigans.

What the hell is that nonsense? I have no idea what part of that is your own writing, if any at all,  and what part of it is drawn out of the links, that seem to be there for nothing more than breaks in the text.

You do know how to actually present an argument, much less one of your own, right? 

Is part of your argument that each of those links (and the text following them) are actually accurate?  Because that's utter bull****.

Is part of your argument that there is actually some sort of physical law of  "propaganda parity" between the Right and the Left? It appears so, and that is an utterly false, and ridiculous nonsense.

The Left is the ones that rely on big government,  and big media has been conspicuously running cover for the big government's  gross lies and misrepresentations. 

Furthermore, while the Right are obviously not angels (and no one is saying they are), at least the Right aspires to some sort of standards, where as the Left has no real standards, and not only does not support this country's principles, but is only hostile to them. And the Left makes up what is its "standards" on the fly, and then force-feeds us with enormous volumes of choking propaganda regarding those dishonest standards.

In point of fact, your entire post is nothing but "Exhibit A" of propaganda dishonesty.

Part of the reason I hang out on this forum, is that arguing is just fine, but "facts" have got to be presented.

Anyone that is directly engaged in politics, is engaged in propaganda...it's part of the game; one that the GOP is failing miserably at.

Hell, at this point in the game, the GOP doesn't even need propaganda...all they would have to do is hold a daily news conference on the facts; and they stubbornly refuse to even do that.

Quote from: Trip on August 04, 2013, 07:34:27 AM



In point of fact, your entire post is nothing but "Exhibit A" of propaganda dishonesty.

Then you should have no problem sourcing something other then your fictitious bull shit, right?

The idea that the right has some sort of "standards" in presenting their propaganda is sheer fantasy. There are no "standards" when using propaganda as you have clearly demonstrated.

And the idea that one side depends on "big government" over the other is also sheer bull shit.

And the idea that this is anything other then a Republican forum is also nonsense. Simply using the idea that the Tea Party will, "fix" the GOP is a delusion of the highest order. Your still going to vote Republican.

Quote from: Shenanigans on August 04, 2013, 07:54:44 AM
Then you should have no problem sourcing something other then your fictitious bull shit, right?

The idea that the right has some sort of "standards" in presenting their propaganda is sheer fantasy. There are no "standards" when using propaganda as you have clearly demonstrated.

And the idea that one side depends on "big government" over the other is also sheer bull shit.

And the idea that this is anything other then a Republican forum is also nonsense. Simply using the idea that the Tea Party will, "fix" the GOP is a delusion of the highest order. Your still going to vote Republican.

The blather of your previous post, and this one as well, would almost be amusing, if not the the fact that the entire Demoncratic Party's ideology is not "sourced" anywhere in this country's principles, instead being entirely an anathema to and incompatible with those principles.

The second reference of your long, drooling post actually talks about, "ultra-right wing propaganda inciting fear of change and hatred for other Americans; all Americans." 

The problem is the Constitution isn't about "Change".  The Constitution is a FORM of government, and that form is intended to PROHIBIT populist any radical change, and particularly populist change, so as to PROHIBIT the government's predation upon the various classes of people. 

It is an outright vile lie, and gross propaganda, that the conflict that is going on has ANYTHING to do with any sort of legitimate "change" going on, and instead is the Democrats exercising illegitimate governance, not only hostile to freedom,  but prohibited by the Constitutions.

The fact of the matter is that what the Democratic Party is engaging can only end with people getting killed, compelling free citizens to use whatever force necessary to remove the illegitimate government tyranny the left demands.  And that time is approaching very quickly.

You have your head so far buried up Lala Land, that you read only one what you want to hear, rather than what I and others deliberately convey.   

The Right does not have to engage in propaganda because, overall, the standards the Right should operate by are those of the Constitution, as well as an established  external morality.   The only people who have to engage in propaganda, the lef,t do so because the truth they actually bear is entirely unpalatable, unacceptable, and devoid of reason.   

By your reference to the "Right's propaganda" you quite obviously failed to recognize the clear implication of there being no such physical law of  "propaganda parity" between the Right and the Left.    It's a falsehood perpetrated by the Left so as to falsely claim an equal culpability, when there is no equality in this and many other things.

While the Truth does not have a party, the fact that the Democrats MUST engage in gross propaganda to repackage their communist ideology as if valid under the Constitution, and then promote it with further lies, does not have them on any sort of equal standing with that Truth.   While there are many views, the Truth does not provide equal support to the perspectives.

And if you don't recognize the fact the the Left's ideology absolute REQUIRES and DEMANDS increasing government, and evermore intrusion into our lives, and that the Right's increase of government is not dictated by ideology, then you've failed at the  most basic fundamentals to any realistic and honest conversation.

Yes, "one side" more than depends on big government.

Finally, if you're unable at this hour to grasp that many of the people here, at this "forum",  are tremendously anti-Republican then you missed the boat on that issue as well.  Nothing I indicated was about arguing the perspective to this forum, so your response is entirely irrelevant, a total non sequitur,  like shouting out "Snorkel!"  in the middle of flagrante delicto.