Quote from: CubaLibre on July 30, 2012, 01:10:35 PM
Your failure to grasp my rather simple point is giving me a sharp pain in between my eyes. Let's try an illustration:

A Black man can walk into a Hindu restaurant, or a Kosher or Hallal restaurant, for that matter, sit at a table or counter, and order a meal. This was not possible under Jim Crow. This is equality.

Now let's say the Black man sits at the table or counter of the Hindu, Kosher, or Hallal restaurant and orders a plate of pulled pork. When the restaurant informs him that they do not serve pork, he vociferously states that this is discrimination, that he is being denied his rights. More individuals jump on the bandwaggon and demand that Hindu, Kosher, and Hallal restaurants serve pork in order to accomodate customers who don't adhere to Hindu, Kosher, or Hallal dietary norms.

Now do you get it?

Of course he won't, he doesn't even understand the concept of a religious objection. Just as most leftists can't understand the concept of the "Free exercise clause". To them religion is something that should be confined to a building once a week. The fact that all religions call upon the members to be charitable for example, or to do missionary work, they ignore. Which why they can't understand that a Catholic Hospital is a part of the mission of the church. Or that a Christian photographer is supposed to live her Christianity in ALL facets of her life, not just for a few hours every Sunday.

Quote from: mdgiles on July 30, 2012, 01:31:20 PM
Of course he won't, he doesn't even understand the concept of a religious objection. Just as most leftists can't understand the concept of the "Free exercise clause". To them religion is something that should be confined to a building once a week. The fact that all religions call upon the members to be charitable for example, or to do missionary work, they ignore. Which why they can't understand that a Catholic Hospital is a part of the mission of the church. Or that a Christian photographer is supposed to live her Christianity in ALL facets of her life, not just for a few hours every Sunday.

Incidentally, exemption from military service for conscientious objectors has its roots in religious objection to doing something. The same goes for many free speech issues.

Quote from: mdgiles on July 30, 2012, 01:31:20 PM
Of course he won't, he doesn't even understand the concept of a religious objection.

You can object to being forced to do something on religious grounds (although I have objections to this, as well).  You cannot object to others being granted rights on religious grounds.

YOU: I don't want Bob and Joe to get married, because my religious rights supersedes their own!

I don't want you do eat pork, because my religious rights will be trampled!

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 30, 2012, 12:05:50 PM
Since you've brought it back up, I think I have a safeguard from accusations of "beating a dead horse".

The million dollar question:

Why is it that gay couples cannot marry because they would make "poor parents", yet straight convicted murderers can marry?

Would it not be logical to draw the line for marriage at "do you make good parents?", if that is your definition of its purpose, rather than "are you gay?  because if you are, most of you would probably make worse parents than most straights!"  The latter, even if it were true, overlaps heavily.

It would be the equivalent of a college rejecting all applicants from America, correctly noting that the American education system is inferior to most economically comparable nations.  Yet this overlaps heavily; many Americans are academically smarter than many Chinese, even if this is the exception rather than the rule, so why not simply base admissions on merit rather than a [correct] generalization predicting merit?

----

Furthermore, how many opponents of gay marriage actually considered its pragmatic societal detriment in order to make up his mind?  Did his thought process go:

Is gay marriage right or wrong?
Well, gay marriage has X, Y and Z harmful effects based on scientific evidence...
So gay marriage is wrong!

Or...

Gay marriage is wrong!  Jesus says so!
OK, well, if I'm going to debate my liberal friends, I need some logical justification...
[does one-sided wikipedia research]
OK, here's why gay marriage is wrong.

Oh Oh Mr Kotter...I Have a question...what if its a gay murderer who wants to get married to another gay murderer?

Apology to Ron Palillo aka "Horshack"....


Billy

So....

I was flipping through the AM stations this morning and came across the local Mexican music station. They were discussing this, and from the reaction I heard, they're not too happy.

The question is, can they be convinced to value their faith more than the promise of amnesty, and either stay home on election day, or switch parties? Only time will tell.

Quote from: CubaLibre on July 31, 2012, 04:58:41 AM
The question is, can they be convinced to value their faith more than the promise of amnesty, and either stay home on election day, or switch parties? Only time will tell.

Most hispanic folks in my area are Mexican, and are far more likely to be practicing Catholics (or, a smaller group, Baptist). They are devout in the good and decent sense of that word. For some 35 years now, I've frequented a Mexican restaurant here in town which prominently displays its creche and several crosses around the always-packed room.

To some that's just good business if you want religious people in your establishment---along with lawyers, cops, judges, day-laborers, office folks and more.

To others it's support for business integrity. God gave us this restaurant and our hard work in His behalf (and the excellent food we serve) gave us your patronage. I can always find time to patronize a place when honesty says, God came first.

Quote from: quiller on July 31, 2012, 05:36:34 AM
Most hispanic folks in my area are Mexican, and are far more likely to be practicing Catholics (or, a smaller group, Baptist). They are devout in the good and decent sense of that word. For some 35 years now, I've frequented a Mexican restaurant here in town which prominently displays its creche and several crosses around the always-packed room.

To some that's just good business if you want religious people in your establishment---along with lawyers, cops, judges, day-laborers, office folks and more.

To others it's support for business integrity. God gave us this restaurant and our hard work in His behalf (and the excellent food we serve) gave us your patronage. I can always find time to patronize a place when honesty says, God came first.

Mexican Catholics are very devout Catholics. Recently, the Dems have managed to lure them with the carrot-and-stick game of amnesty and government entitlements, but when the Dems trample on their faith like this, I doubt the old game will work this time around.

They're gambling on the gay vote, and I think it will backfire.

Quote from: Bad water BILLY on July 30, 2012, 07:21:57 PM

Oh Oh Mr Kotter...I Have a question...what if its a gay murderer who wants to get married to another gay murderer?

Red herring; whether or not the gay murderer can get married is, according to the law, dependent only on the "gay" portion, with the fact that he is a murderer being completely irrelevant.

In other words, it's OK to get married if you're a convicted felon, but not if you're gay!   

Quote from: CubaLibre on July 31, 2012, 05:45:47 AM
Mexican Catholics are very devout Catholics. Recently, the Dems have managed to lure them with the carrot-and-stick game of amnesty and government entitlements, but when the Dems trample on their faith like this, I doubt the old game will work this time around.

They're gambling on the gay vote, and I think it will backfire.

Obama's assault on religious freedoms should terrify Catholics, the way he's gone after church-owned health care systems.

Protestants too should be concerned, when Obama hired thousands of new IRS inspectors. THEY were for ensuring compliance on that John Roberts-orchestrated shafting over Obamacare.

The IRS guys won't be fired, even if Obama loses. And no matter if you sit in a church every Sunday (or other day), or haven't been there in ages, we ALL have reason to fear more IRS guys, just looking for someone --- ANYONE --- to do.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 30, 2012, 01:48:38 PM
You can object to being forced to do something on religious grounds (although I have objections to this, as well).  You cannot object to others being granted rights on religious grounds.

YOU: I don't want Bob and Joe to get married, because my religious rights supersedes their own!

I don't want you do eat pork, because my religious rights will be trampled!

You are so full of shit.

Bob and Joe want to get married -- and have the state officially recognize their union -- so that Bob and Joe get tax, inheritance, dependent status, and other economic benefits that are not currently available to them. Bob and Joe are going to be butthole buddies just as long as they like, maybe for life, whether the state or the federal government recognizes their "married" status or not. The only difference is MONEY.

I'm not arguing one way or the other whether Bob and Joe deserve that status. I'm just sick to death of bullshitters like you trying to frame it as a moral issue.

Quote from: tbone0106 on July 31, 2012, 11:26:55 AM
You are so full of shit.

Bob and Joe want to get married -- and have the state officially recognize their union -- so that Bob and Joe get tax, inheritance, dependent status, and other economic benefits that are not currently available to them. Bob and Joe are going to be butthole buddies just as long as they like, maybe for life, whether the state or the federal government recognizes their "married" status or not. The only difference is MONEY.

I'm not arguing one way or the other whether Bob and Joe deserve that status. I'm just sick to death of bullshitters like you trying to frame it as a moral issue.

No, you're full of shit.  How many assholes marry as a result of wanting social security benefits?  How many marry for inheritance rights?  Are you under the impression that gays or straights typically even consider the economic considerations of marriage before tying the knot?

BOB: Jill, will you marry me?
JILL: Why, of course!  We'll get social security benefits and pay more income taxes!
BOB: Great!  I love money!
JILL: I love money too!



-----

Next contrived anti-gay marriage argument, please.

The Democrats' rallying cry:

"YOU salute the flag! WE'LL salute the fag!"

Quote from: Jasmine on July 31, 2012, 02:12:40 PM
The Democrats' rallying cry:

"YOU salute the flag! WE'LL salute the fag!"

"with liberty, and justice, for all except those whom we condemn based on their personal, victimless sexual lives!"

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 31, 2012, 02:18:14 PM
"with liberty, and justice, for all except those whom we condemn based on their personal, victimless sexual lives!"

Don't Be A Fag Randy Marsh

Quote from: Jasmine on July 31, 2012, 02:30:24 PM
Don't Be A Fag Randy Marsh

Tell that to the gay bullying victims that were murdered, or committed suicide.