Because that's what my RINO roommate told me the other day. 

I don't like the fact that communism is seen as a legitimate viewpoint in our country now, and I want to do everything I can to squash anyone who thinks along those lines - everything short of banning communist speech, anyway.  That's done through social pressure.

I was telling him that I looked forward to the day it wasn't cool to wear CCCP shirts anymore, and I wanted to live to see a day when wearing the hammer and sickle was utter social suicide (like it is with the swastika).  I told him I looked forward to the day where people would to throw a book cover over Zinn's "A People's History of the United States", lest strangers throw them dirty looks. 

He said that this was bullying and undemocratic, because we need to "debate" with negative belief systems.  (You've all seen "Good Night and Good Luck", and Edward R. Murrow's final speech.  He lines up with that very well)

When I applied this same logic to the Nazis, the KKK, and general fascism - and called him out for being a hypocrite for being OK with their silence - he said that it was a weak argument because the Nazis and the KKK were "extreme examples".  He said that I was intentionally saying that all Marxism and Communism = Stalinism, and that by doing so I was taking advantage of stupid people to hammer on a belief system that I had an irrational hatred of.

Since we're both very egotistical people, neither of us would lose the argument - and we argued in circles until around 4:30 in the morning.  But - did he have a point?

I believe that since we live in a free society, we need to tolerate diverse viewpoints.  We need to tolerate them within reason, though.  Anything that is completely against our country's values - anticapitalism, collectivization, antipatriotism etc. - can't be tolerated.  For this reason, I think McCarthy was on the right track doing what he did.

thoughts?

Quote from: GuyMontag on April 13, 2014, 03:46:48 PM
Because that's what my RINO roommate told me the other day. 

I don't like the fact that communism is seen as a legitimate viewpoint in our country now, and I want to do everything I can to squash anyone who thinks along those lines - everything short of banning communist speech, anyway.  That's done through social pressure.

I was telling him that I looked forward to the day it wasn't cool to wear CCCP shirts anymore, and I wanted to live to see a day when wearing the hammer and sickle was utter social suicide (like it is with the swastika).  I told him I looked forward to the day where people would to throw a book cover over Zinn's "A People's History of the United States", lest strangers throw them dirty looks. 

He said that this was bullying and undemocratic, because we need to "debate" with negative belief systems.  (You've all seen "Good Night and Good Luck", and Edward R. Murrow's final speech.  He lines up with that very well)

When I applied this same logic to the Nazis, the KKK, and general fascism - and called him out for being a hypocrite for being OK with their silence - he said that it was a weak argument because the Nazis and the KKK were "extreme examples".  He said that I was intentionally saying that all Marxism and Communism = Stalinism, and that by doing so I was taking advantage of stupid people to hammer on a belief system that I had an irrational hatred of.

Since we're both very egotistical people, neither of us would lose the argument - and we argued in circles until around 4:30 in the morning.  But - did he have a point?

I believe that since we live in a free society, we need to tolerate diverse viewpoints.  We need to tolerate them within reason, though.  Anything that is completely against our country's values - anticapitalism, collectivization, antipatriotism etc. - can't be tolerated.  For this reason, I think McCarthy was on the right track doing what he did.

thoughts?

It is a legitimate viewpoint because it is a legitimate form of social organization. It does exist. It is unworkable and has never succeeded anywhere but it is legitimate. Most people that advocate it don't understand it and are not familiar with it's history.It should be taught in school because it is a big part of world history.

Quote from: The Boo Man... on April 13, 2014, 04:29:14 PM
It is a legitimate viewpoint because it is a legitimate form of social organization. It does exist. It is unworkable and has never succeeded anywhere but it is legitimate. Most people that advocate it don't understand it and are not familiar with it's history.It should be taught in school because it is a big part of world history.

My roommate is anti-communist as well, and also feels that it's unworkable.  He just doesn't think it's healthy to be relentlessly hostile towards it, because doing that isn't a good contribution to the "free marketplace of ideas".  I just think that it's a mistake to give evil even one inch - because statists are relentless, and are willing to work their whole lives to achieve an incremental goal

I read a lot of left-wing literature to confirm my own negativity towards it - that is, I own a copy of the Communist Manifesto just in case I want to throw a quote back in some lefty's face.  (My roommate particularly gave me shit over this point, and accused me of being an anti-intellectual.)

I believe that Marxism and similar views certainly do have their place in education...but it should by default be approached and looked at as if it's evil, unworkable, and anti-American...not as if it's a philosophy that's just never been implemented properly.

I dunno.  Should I calm down, or am I right to have this seething hatred/paranoia towards communists?  (Having had to listen to it in lecture after lecture certainly hasn't helped.)

Quote from: GuyMontag on April 13, 2014, 04:38:57 PM
My roommate is anti-communist as well, and also feels that it's unworkable.  He just doesn't think it's healthy to be relentlessly hostile towards it, because doing that isn't a good contribution to the "free marketplace of ideas".  I just think that it's a mistake to give evil even one inch - because statists are relentless, and are willing to work their whole lives to achieve an incremental goal

I read a lot of left-wing literature to confirm my own negativity towards it - that is, I own a copy of the Communist Manifesto just in case I want to throw a quote back in some lefty's face.  (My roommate particularly gave me shit over this point, and accused me of being an anti-intellectual.)

I believe that Marxism and similar views certainly do have their place in education...but it should by default be approached and looked at as if it's evil, unworkable, and anti-American...not as if it's a philosophy that's just never been implemented properly.

I dunno.  Should I calm down, or am I right to have this seething hatred/paranoia towards communists?  (Having had to listen to it in lecture after lecture certainly hasn't helped.)

No, I believe you have every right to hate and be afraid of the Marxists.
As to your sentence:

QuoteI believe that since we live in a free society, we need to tolerate diverse viewpoints.

I don't believe we should tolerate it, in fact when these idiots speak, they should be shamed beyond belief.
Screw these leftist morons!

Keep up the fight and don't let any idiot tell you, you're wrong.

It's hard to believe those discussions happened.  The haranging gardens of babble-on... Kimono's and coffee...   Only wimps are silenced.  -Socially.  As your dystopian nickname attests-to though, written during the McCarthy-hearings, it's about illiteracy due to convenient gadgets.

" In writing the short novel Fahrenheit 451, I thought I was describing a world that might evolve in four or five decades. But only a few weeks ago, in Beverly Hills one night, a husband and wife passed me, walking their dog. I stood staring after them, absolutely stunned. The woman held in one hand a small cigarette-package-sized radio, its antenna quivering. From this sprang tiny copper wires which ended in a dainty cone plugged into her right ear. There she was, oblivious to man and dog, listening to far winds and whispers and soap-opera cries, sleep-walking, helped up and down curbs by a husband who might just as well not have been there. This was not fiction. "

-Bradbury, 1956. 

Quote from: kit saginaw on April 13, 2014, 06:16:53 PM
It's hard to believe those discussions happened.  The haranging gardens of babble-on... Kimono's and coffee...   Only wimps are silenced. -Socially.  As your dystopian nickname attests-to though, written during the McCarthy-hearings, it's about illiteracy due to convenient gadgets.

" In writing the short novel Fahrenheit 451, I thought I was describing a world that might evolve in four or five decades. But only a few weeks ago, in Beverly Hills one night, a husband and wife passed me, walking their dog. I stood staring after them, absolutely stunned. The woman held in one hand a small cigarette-package-sized radio, its antenna quivering. From this sprang tiny copper wires which ended in a dainty cone plugged into her right ear. There she was, oblivious to man and dog, listening to far winds and whispers and soap-opera cries, sleep-walking, helped up and down curbs by a husband who might just as well not have been there. This was not fiction. "

-Bradbury, 1956.

Which is exactly the reason we are where we are today, we let the leftists take and set the narrative.
Time to take it back.

Quote from: Solar on April 13, 2014, 05:34:37 PM
No, I believe you have every right to hate and be afraid of the Marxists.
As to your sentence:
I don't believe we should tolerate it, in fact when these idiots speak, they should be shamed beyond belief.
Screw these leftist morons!

Keep up the fight and don't let any idiot tell you, you're wrong.

Absolutely. Tolerance is one thing, but there should be no tolerance of a philosophy that openly desires to defeat the beliefs our country was founded upon. The same applies to militant Islam.

Quote from: supsalemgr on April 14, 2014, 04:50:30 AM
Absolutely. Tolerance is one thing, but there should be no tolerance of a philosophy that openly desires to defeat the beliefs our country was founded upon. The same applies to militant Islam.

Yep, had the country stood behind McCarthy, we might not be in the mess we're in today.

Quote from: Solar on April 14, 2014, 04:52:42 AM
Yep, had the country stood behind McCarthy, we might not be in the mess we're in today.

McCarthy, a raging publicity-seeking drunk, did not have sufficient proof of specific allegations against the people he named. The media rightly smeared him for demagogery. HOWEVER: he was correct that communists had too much influence in the State Department, and had we moved McCarthy aside and vigorously pursued what he was getting at, I agree we might not be in the mess we're in today.

Right message, wrong messenger.

Quote from: quiller on April 14, 2014, 06:32:34 AM
McCarthy, a raging publicity-seeking drunk, did not have sufficient proof of specific allegations against the people he named. The media rightly smeared him for demagogery. HOWEVER: he was correct that communists had too much influence in the State Department, and had we moved McCarthy aside and vigorously pursued what he was getting at, I agree we might not be in the mess we're in today.

Right message, wrong messenger.

Sorry, I don't buy it, the left will do it's best to discredit any messenger.
Hell, I'd be drinking too, if I were him.

Quote from: Solar on April 14, 2014, 07:41:25 AM
SorryI don't buy it, the left will do it's best to discredit any messenger.
Hell, I'd be drinking too, if I were him.

Don't give an inch is correct else you'll wind up in a shitstorm.  Along those lines our mayor in Sptbg., SC thought it right to have a Gay Pride March and declare a special day for these folks in our city every year.   Turns out that it is a whole week.  My son works a state job in the city and he said it was a mess.  But the liberal is spreading where it can.
  Now our local USC upstate campus has tried (Failed Too ) to implement certain social issues into the teaching curriculum that are against what we normally tolerate.  Here's one for the books, "How to Become a Lesbian in Ten Days".  And some of the teaching dolts wanted to teach this?  I don't think so.  The president of the school pulled it right back out. 

Quote from: GuyMontag on April 13, 2014, 03:46:48 PMI believe that since we live in a free society, we need to tolerate diverse viewpoints.  We need to tolerate them within reason, though.  Anything that is completely against our country's values - anticapitalism, collectivization, antipatriotism etc. - can't be tolerated.  For this reason, I think McCarthy was on the right track doing what he did.

thoughts?

My VP of Sales for my business is a left wing moon bat politically who lives her own life nothing like she advocates our country should be run.  I just don't discuss it with her, we get along fine.

I come from an era in which we would beat the living dog crap out of some jerk off who was stupid enough to wear a commie flag or CCCP T Shirt or that monster Che Guevarra.

The problem America has is Tolerance to such foreign and undemocratic beliefs...personally I'd like to see a return to the day of the mindset of kicking some one's deserving ass for flaunting the menace of communism in our faces.

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on April 14, 2014, 06:05:57 PM
I come from an era in which we would beat the living dog crap out of some jerk off who was stupid enough to wear a commie flag or CCCP T Shirt or that monster Che Guevarra.

The problem America has is Tolerance to such foreign and undemocratic beliefs...personally I'd like to see a return to the day of the mindset of kicking some one's deserving ass for flaunting the menace of communism in our faces.

Drop the 102nd Airborne onto Hollywood. Or a neutron bomb: somebody can re-use the buildings in a few hundred years.

I Might add that Unions in those days were always on the lookout for anything "red" and anything 'red' (Or Pink) would have had their ass handed to them in fractions. My dear old Daddy was a Union man and an official to boot. I remember his rants agianst certain members which were suspect and " those ***&%$##%^* Teamsters and their *&^%((@@*  "Dago"  Mafia pals".

(apologies to those of Italian ancestry)....

My how times have changed.