What FlamingDuck evidently didn't hear was that a quid pro quo being given by Trump was just Sondland's OPINION, you do know what an opinion is right? When pressed and asked SPECIFICALLY what Trump told him when he asked the President what we should do Trump and what we wanted from Ukraine for the aid explicitly said "Nothing, no quid pro Quo, just tell Zelensky to do the right thing"

Quote from: MichaelJ on November 22, 2019, 11:14:07 AM
What FlamingDuck evidently didn't hear was that a quid pro quo being given by Trump was just Sondland's OPINION

Actually i did, but even that is besides my point. I said "sondland confirmed the quid pro qou" and then i also mentioned he didn't hear it directly from Trump but trough Rudy Guilliani. And yes afaik it was his oppinion that Guilliani had gotten it from Trump. So there are 2 different things, 1) establishing wether it was a quid pro quo that was being asked for (aka a announcement of the investigation in Burisma for aid and a presidential visit) and 2) wether that order for a quid pro quo came from Trump.

Sondland said "he put 2 and 2 together", and the 2 and 2 here afaik was that "since he had been said to listen to Guiliani for what regards the wishes of the president" and "since he had learned trough Gulliani that the aid was conditioned on the announcement of the investigation in Burisma" that it seemed logical that Gulliani had gotten this from Trump.

So no, in fact i did hear it, but that was irrelevant to what i posted.

Quote from: taxed on November 22, 2019, 08:17:10 AM
I knew you were the one to ask. Thanks for your expertise!


That must be a Belgian thing.

Youre welcome, also yeah we dont really drench em in toiletwater but i bet you saw trough that.

Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on November 22, 2019, 11:41:34 AM
Actually i did, but even that is besides my point. I said "sondland confirmed the quid pro qou" and then i also mentioned he didn't hear it directly from Trump but trough Rudy Guilliani. And yes afaik it was his oppinion that Guilliani had gotten it from Trump. So there are 2 different things, 1) establishing wether it was a quid pro quo that was being asked for (aka a announcement of the investigation in Burisma for aid and a presidential visit) and 2) wether that order for a quid pro quo came from Trump.

Sondland said "he put 2 and 2 together", and the 2 and 2 here afaik was that "since he had been said to listen to Guiliani for what regards the wishes of the president" and "since he had learned trough Gulliani that the aid was conditioned on the announcement of the investigation in Burisma" that it seemed logical that Gulliani had gotten this from Trump.

So no, in fact i did hear it, but that was irrelevant to what i posted.

Yes everything you post on US politics is irrelevant because you're a foreign troll.

Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on November 22, 2019, 11:41:34 AM
Actually i did, but even that is besides my point. I said "sondland confirmed the quid pro qou" and then i also mentioned he didn't hear it directly from Trump but trough Rudy Guilliani. And yes afaik it was his oppinion that Guilliani had gotten it from Trump. So there are 2 different things, 1) establishing wether it was a quid pro quo that was being asked for (aka a announcement of the investigation in Burisma for aid and a presidential visit) and 2) wether that order for a quid pro quo came from Trump.

Sondland said "he put 2 and 2 together", and the 2 and 2 here afaik was that "since he had been said to listen to Guiliani for what regards the wishes of the president" and "since he had learned trough Gulliani that the aid was conditioned on the announcement of the investigation in Burisma" that it seemed logical that Gulliani had gotten this from Trump.

So no, in fact i did hear it, but that was irrelevant to what i posted.

Well first of all the quid pro quo, according to Dems, was over the aid, not the meeting.  Even IF he had told him he would not meet with him until he started investigating corruption in his country, this is something leaders do EVERY DAY in order to get what they want for their country, often demanded by a congressional statute. Trump clearly told him in a one on one conversation that he wanted NOTHING from Ukraine and that Trumps (pardon the pun) anything Guliani MAY have allegedly said to Sondland

Quote from: Killer Clouds on November 22, 2019, 12:01:54 PM
Yes everything you post on US politics is irrelevant because you're a foreign troll.

But what do i care about that consideration, i'm going to give my oppinion anyway right? :p

I guess i'm of the oppinion that politics in the US affects the rest of the western world too to some degree, indeed even the whole world. But regardless if thats so, again i'm just going to post my oppinion anyway.

I don't think Belgians tend to be trolls but our cultural mentallity does have something which has been beautifully memoralised in this rather known Belgian statue:

Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on November 22, 2019, 01:04:10 PM
But what do i care about that consideration, i'm going to give my oppinion anyway right? :p

I guess i'm of the oppinion that politics in the US affects the rest of the western world too to some degree, indeed even the whole world. But regardless if thats so, again i'm just going to post my oppinion anyway.

I don't think Belgians tend to be trolls but our cultural mentallity does have something which has been beautifully memoralised in this rather known Belgian statue:

I didn't say all Belgians are trolls. I've said many time that you  are a troll and that your opinion on US politics is irrelevant and pointless. It means absolutely nothing. I imagine your opinion is the same everywhere.

If quid pro quo is an impeachable  offence wouldnt everyone  in congress  be  impeached?

Quote from: ldub23 on November 22, 2019, 03:51:46 PM
If quid pro quo is an impeachable  offence wouldnt everyone  in congress  be  impeached?

Absolutely. Every deal ever made is quid pro quo. This for that.

Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on November 22, 2019, 11:41:34 AM
Actually i did, but even that is besides my point. I said "sondland confirmed the quid pro qou" and then i also mentioned he didn't hear it directly from Trump but trough Rudy Guilliani. And yes afaik it was his oppinion that Guilliani had gotten it from Trump. So there are 2 different things, 1) establishing wether it was a quid pro quo that was being asked for (aka a announcement of the investigation in Burisma for aid and a presidential visit) and 2) wether that order for a quid pro quo came from Trump.

Sondland said "he put 2 and 2 together", and the 2 and 2 here afaik was that "since he had been said to listen to Guiliani for what regards the wishes of the president" and "since he had learned trough Gulliani that the aid was conditioned on the announcement of the investigation in Burisma" that it seemed logical that Gulliani had gotten this from Trump.

So no, in fact i did hear it, but that was irrelevant to what i posted.

I'm going to ask you again: provide proof that Rudy or Trump did something wrong.

Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on November 22, 2019, 01:04:10 PM
But what do i care about that consideration, i'm going to give my oppinion anyway right? :p

I guess i'm of the oppinion that politics in the US affects the rest of the western world too to some degree, indeed even the whole world. But regardless if thats so, again i'm just going to post my oppinion anyway.

I don't think Belgians tend to be trolls but our cultural mentallity does have something which has been beautifully memoralised in this rather known Belgian statue:

It would be nice if you engaged in discussion instead of posting lies and slandering our President, who we love (and you know that), and actually bringing something of value to the conversation.  But, you've established your troll credentials.

Quote from: TheFlemishDuck on November 22, 2019, 01:04:10 PM
But what do i care about that consideration, i'm going to give my oppinion anyway right? :p

Opinions for the most part are formed from established fact. All of my opinions are based in reality, not someone else opinion.

Quote from: Solar on November 22, 2019, 06:21:45 PM
Opinions for the most part are formed from established fact. All of my opinions are based in reality, not someone else opinion.

That's the thing... he posts fake news, then calls it his "opinion".

Good Byron York article...  even a Belgian can understand it...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/ambassador-sondlands-slick-move

QuoteSo, when Sondland entered the hearing room Wednesday, he had, as Krishnamoorthi said, a lot of explaining to do. So, what did he do? He didn't explain at all. Instead, he produced the biggest, shiniest object he could find: a brand new allegation that there was indeed a quid pro quo at the heart of the Trump-Ukraine affair. "Was there a quid pro quo?" he asked. "Yes."

There was more. "Everyone was in the loop," Sondland said. "It was no secret." Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, they were all involved.

It was great stuff. A bombshell! In an instant, the talk about Sondland lying to Congress vanished. Democrats were absolutely delighted that Sondland, once thought to be a witness friendly to the president, had given them so much good material. The media coverage went along. Sondland's testimony was damning, it was devastating, and, of course, it was a "turning point" in the impeachment proceedings.

Except it wasn't. Less than an hour after Sondland delivered his opening statement, the whole thing began to fall apart. It started with ostensibly friendly questioning from Intelligence Committee Chairman and impeachment leader Adam Schiff.

"You've testified that your understanding, it became a clear understanding, that the military assistance was also being withheld pending Zelensky announcing these investigations, correct?" Schiff said to Sondland.

"That was my presumption," Sondland said. "My personal presumption based on the facts at the time. Nothing was moving."

"And, in fact, you had a discussion, a communication with the secretary of state in which you said that logjam over aid could be lifted if Zelensky announced these investigations, right?" Schiff said.

"I did not recall saying the logjam over aid," Sondland responded. "I recall saying the logjam. I don't know that — "

"That's what you meant, right, ambassador?" Schiff said.

Quote from: Bronx on November 22, 2019, 08:11:39 AM
I noticed you left out the real time text. Why is that.....?

Yes. The time. The White House already knew they were caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

The reason I say that The White House knew is because the whistleblower complaint was given to the Acting DNI on 8/26/19.

In his testimony, the Acting DNI claimed that he didn't forward it to Congress, as legally obligated, because the complaint was against the President and had Executive Privilege.

He instead went to The White House and told them about the complaint. They summarily, told him not to forward it along to Congress.

During that 4 hour gap between text messages you posted on 09/09/19, Sondland called Trump directly, and that's when Trump emphatically denied a quid pro quo after having Sondland et al. working hard towards it.

That's the same day that Congress was finally informed by the ICIG.

When the Acting DNI was asked directly if he had spoken with President Trump about the whistleblower complaint, he neither confirmed nor denied.