Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2014, 12:39:12 PM
Ya know, that gives me an idea. Lets make it legal to hire illegals, but if someone does, they pay a premium tax to offset a job stolen, an illegal alien migrant tax.
Enforce the shit out of it, and watch the wave of illegals come to a screeching halt.

As our government likes taxing, also tax the illegal alien big time as there not citizens of the U.S.

Quote from: walkstall on August 28, 2014, 12:44:45 PM
As our government likes taxing, also tax the illegal alien big time as there not citizens of the U.S.

I could deal with a direct withdrawal like other taxes, SSN etc.
The Dims should love the double taxation aspect, Hell, they've been doing it to us for decades.

Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2014, 07:31:11 AM
Yes, low skilled labor as in entry level jobs for American citizens, like prior to WWII, and after the war, jobs Americans should have been allowed to return to, Instead, they had been replaced by cheaper labor.

There is no connection between unemployment and immigration:




The highest growing segment of our own unemployment/underemployed isn't blue collar workers, it's college-educated graduates, people who are only in competition with high skilled immigrants, and even then, not very, as very few Americans have the skills companies bring in immigrants at that level to do.

QuoteI speak from experience, you speak from an emotional level regarding Liberty, all the while ignoring the Rights of American citizens,

There is no "right to employment".  We're not Europe. Thinking as such will only make things worse.

Quote from: walkstall on August 28, 2014, 12:44:45 PM
As our government likes taxing, also tax the illegal alien big time as there not citizens of the U.S.

A better recourse than keeping them out. Tax them, then give the money to the workers you think they're "disadvantaging" if you want, it's not nearly as bad for them or us than spending money to stop the commerce they're responsible for.

Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2014, 09:15:41 AM
Exactly correct! It is slave labor,

It is not. Not only are they being compensated, these people come here by choice, whereas slave labor is by definition involuntary.

If it happens in the economy by choice, it's a free market phenomenon. The actions of people uncoerced.

Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2014, 12:39:12 PM
Ya know, that gives me an idea. Lets make it legal to hire illegals, but if someone does, they pay a premium tax to offset a job stolen, an illegal alien migrant tax.
Enforce the shit out of it, and watch the wave of illegals come to a screeching halt.

Set the tax at the absolute maximum amount that a duly-represented major union worker would receive for that job, and you'd probably win the layabout vote to carry the issue. If employers would have to pay for union rates, they'd think twice about hiring wetbacks for fear that the entire shop would demand equal wages......

Quote from: quiller on August 28, 2014, 02:57:59 PM
Set the tax at the absolute maximum amount that a duly-represented major union worker would receive for that job, and you'd probably win the layabout vote to carry the issue. If employers would have to pay for union rates, they'd think twice about hiring wetbacks for fear that the entire shop would demand equal wages......

I believe that's doable.
Now watch someone in the Senate float this idea, because we know they come here for inspiration.

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 28, 2014, 01:45:06 PM
There is no connection between unemployment and immigration:

Nope. The graph is cute, but it tells us nothing. If you honestly think it's valid to compare the performance of the US economy to that of Luxembourg or Israel or Greece based on a single point of reference -- the presence of foreign nationals vs. unemployment -- we'll have to drastically rethink you as a competent debater. You might begin by wrapping your head around the fact that there is simply no way to present a valid comparison of the economy of the United states to that of Luxembourg or Israel or Greece or most of the other countries named on your graph.

Gun control advocates have long cited crime statistics from Japan as proof that gun control works to reduce crime, while gun rights advocates have cited the exact same statistics from Switzerland as proof that gun control doesn't work to reduce crime. All either side has actually done is show their asses. Simplistic comparisons like this are utterly meaningless. I can look at your graph and pick out obvious examples, like Greece, Germany and Spain, where relatively low levels of foreign nationals lead to relatively high levels of unemployment, and I can pick out the example of Luxembourg, which shows relatively high levels of foreign nationals is harmonic with low levels of unemployment. That arbitrary blue "trend line" is meaningless in a sampling so small and so minuscule in its scope.


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walks

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 28, 2014, 01:45:06 PM
There is no connection between unemployment and immigration:




The highest growing segment of our own unemployment/underemployed isn't blue collar workers, it's college-educated graduates, people who are only in competition with high skilled immigrants, and even then, not very, as very few Americans have the skills companies bring in immigrants at that level to do.
There is no "right to employment".  We're not Europe. Thinking as such will only make things worse.

OOOOPS! Missed this nonsense. But it's becoming blatantly obvious, you are masking your support of Marxist policy under the guise of Liberty.
And if can spot it, then most of our readers have as well.

So just come out of the closet and admit you're a Lib and quit giving Libertarians a bad name.


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walks

Quote from: Solar on August 28, 2014, 03:09:28 PM
I believe that's doable.
Now watch someone in the Senate float this idea, because we know they come here for inspiration.

I'll brush by the obvious question of, "Did YOU send a link to here to YOUR Congressdweeb?" and instead remark on the science fiction aspects of Congress taking MY suggestions seriously in this or any alternate universe.

No, wait. Why invite SWAT teams before the elections? I probably wouldn't be let out to vote, see, and......

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 28, 2014, 01:47:33 PM
A better recourse than keeping them out. Tax them, then give the money to the workers you think they're "disadvantaging" if you want, it's not nearly as bad for them or us than spending money to stop the commerce they're responsible for.

Ain't gonna work, many of the illegals that come here work off the books...then there is the problem of criminal aliens...you think your gonna make drug dealers, hookers and stickup men pay taxes.......

Best idea is to do away with income taxes altogether and levy a big tax on everything else, that way you get your tax money from ANYTHING they buy....of course the rest of us pay too.  BUT this would put taxation in control of the Individual states rather than the Federal Govt....NO MORE IRS!!!!!

Quote from: TboneAgain on August 28, 2014, 03:09:51 PM
Nope. The graph is cute, but it tells us nothing. If you honestly think it's valid to compare the performance of the US economy

It's not about performance, it's about the fundamentals to economic growth.

Immigration not affecting employment is a truism. To say that you think immigrants causes it, means you also think of the economy as a fixed pie, that there "only so much of it to go around".

The free market basis rejects this, it says that economics is the result of human action, thus the more people you have, the more economic activity you have as well. More labor = more consumers! which means more consumption, more production, more savings, more everything. Not less.

Economic growth is heavily correlated with population growth. If your population is shrinking, or even just stagnating, chances are your economy is as well.

QuoteGun control advocates have long cited crime statistics from Japan as proof that gun control works to reduce crime,

And they'd be wrong, as Japan had such low rates before the laws came about. The same to Britain. You can't cite cause & effect, if the effect was there before the cause. Kind of like the relationship with rising carbon levels and rising heat.

But I digress, even in America, this is what we see. Either immigration has no effect, or conversely, it in reality helps with American employment. For if you have more economic activity, you tend to have more jobs as well.

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on August 28, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
Ain't gonna work, many of the illegals that come here work off the books...

Most that tend to stay here for a while don't, they get ITINs so they can still buy property, mortgages, insurance, and other things you need a SS number for in order to purchase.

QuoteBest idea is to do away with income taxes altogether and levy a big tax on everything else, that way you get your tax money from ANYTHING they buy....of course the rest of us pay too.  BUT this would put taxation in control of the Individual states rather than the Federal Govt....NO MORE IRS!!!!!

All for this. A consumption tax to be precise. A flat tax would be better than what we have, but I don't consider it as ideal as a consumption one.

I say give them amnesty. Seriously. Give the people what they want.

^Why? It didn't work in '86.