Quote from: quiller on May 19, 2015, 08:43:38 AM
If that's not a brokered convention, then what is?

Well, 'brokered' has been the way from the beginning.  The OP threw the word 'rigged' at us.  And also prefaced the thread with 'GOP'.  -Suggesting that Dem primaries aren't.  I'm reacting to that.

 

Quote from: Solar on May 19, 2015, 07:10:24 AM
Agnlaw
Just curious, but what kind of power are you placing on a petition that wants to strip power from the very people that created this mess?
Seriously, what good does this do without the power of law behind it?

Expectations... I don't have any misconceptions about the efficacy of a petition addressed to RNC leadership to change anything directly. That said, I am hopeful that the issue can finally be brought into the light. Once in the light, it has a chance of being put into the platform. Once in the platform... etc. etc....

It is also a matter of accepting some level of personal responsibility for, as you call it, "this mess". The "very people that created this mess" are, ultimately, subject to the people that make up the party. Who is to blame for candidates like Romney, McCain and Dole? Directly, the RNC and moderate voters... But what about conservatives who refuse to even bring up the issue? In this, I believe conservatives (including yours truly) are guilty of a sin of omission.

Context... I'm working under the understanding that the majority of the Republican party (the voters, if not the politicians) are conservatives. Election after election, moderates (again, who I believe based on primary results make up no more than 30% of GOP primary voters), because of this inadequacy (lack of run-offs) of the primary process end up deciding for us who will be the GOP candidate. That is intolerable. Why do we tolerate it?

Why in the hell doesn't anybody ever seem to talk about such a glaring problem? I've NEVER heard ANYONE on TV or radio (not even the most celebrated "conservative" pundits) talk about this. Pray tell... Why not??? I've got to imagine that there are more people than me who have attempted to discuss the subject on the radio (I've tried many times and have never got past the call screener... for Limbaugh, Hannity or Levine... and sent multiple emails to the same -- never received a reply)... If these thought leaders are conservatives, pray tell, why the silence?

BTW... on "the power of law"... I'm pretty sure that the law has nothing to do with it until you get to the actual election (the RNC, national and state, runs primaries -- it isn't up to any branch of government).

Quote from: Agnlaw on May 19, 2015, 09:06:27 AM
Expectations... I don't have any misconceptions about the efficacy of a petition addressed to RNC leadership to change anything directly. That said, I am hopeful that the issue can finally be brought into the light. Once in the light, it has a chance of being put into the platform. Once in the platform... etc. etc....

It is also a matter of accepting some level of personal responsibility for, as you call it, "this mess". The "very people that created this mess" are, ultimately, subject to the people that make up the party. Who is to blame for candidates like Romney, McCain and Dole? Directly, the RNC and moderate voters... But what about conservatives who refuse to even bring up the issue? In this, I believe conservatives (including yours truly) are guilty of a sin of omission.

Context... I'm working under the understanding that the majority of the Republican party (the voters, if not the politicians) are conservatives. Election after election, moderates (again, who I believe based on primary results make up no more than 30% of GOP primary voters), because of this inadequacy (lack of run-offs) of the primary process end up deciding for us who will be the GOP candidate. That is intolerable. Why do we tolerate it?

Why in the hell doesn't anybody ever seem to talk about such a glaring problem? I've NEVER heard ANYONE on TV or radio (not even the most celebrated "conservative" pundits) talk about this. Pray tell... Why not??? I've got to imagine that there are more people than me who have attempted to discuss the subject on the radio (I've tried many times and have never got past the call screener... for Limbaugh, Hannity or Levine... and sent multiple emails to the same -- never received a reply)... If these thought leaders are conservatives, pray tell, why the silence?

BTW... on "the power of law"... I'm pretty sure that the law has nothing to do with it until you get to the actual election (the RNC, national and state, runs primaries -- it isn't up to any branch of government).

In essence you've addressed the issue, but failed to recognize 2010, 2014, where the base has made historic gains. Also the fact that many on the right sat out and let Mitten fall on his face, simply because the nation is sick of "politics as usual", and refused to accept another RINO as evidenced by the rejection of all GOP candidates currently running. (including Rubio, Rand Jeb etc)

Look at Walker and Cruz, these two are making a laughing stock out of these so called "Moderate Pubs", they alone are forcing every candidate to run to the right, with the exception of Jeb, who is failing miserably.

Bottom line? RINO haven't a chance in Hell of getting elected.

Quote from: kit saginaw on May 19, 2015, 09:00:54 AM
Well, 'brokered' has been the way from the beginning.  The OP threw the word 'rigged' at us.  And also prefaced the thread with 'GOP'.  -Suggesting that Dem primaries aren't.  I'm reacting to that.

After the way the Florida and Michigan state parties split delegate votes for Hillary and gave half to the guy not even on their state ballots --- and the way "superdelegates" trampled on regular delegates --- you might be too polite with suggesting the Dems' primaries are crooked.

Brokered. Back-room deals and political throats cut deep, no extra charge.

Whether the GOP party bulls would allow such a thing (as I contend they will due to the sheer number of candidates), or whether they allow the more open process in floor fights and interminable balloting, I contend the end result will be a "moderate" (aka RINO) as #1 and a store-dummy conservative as the VP.

They'll call that presenting a stable electoral alternative to the ruinous criminals the Donks put up.

Quote from: Agnlaw on May 19, 2015, 09:06:27 AM
Expectations... I don't have any misconceptions about the efficacy of a petition addressed to RNC leadership to change anything directly. That said, I am hopeful that the issue can finally be brought into the light. Once in the light, it has a chance of being put into the platform. Once in the platform... etc. etc....

It is also a matter of accepting some level of personal responsibility for, as you call it, "this mess". The "very people that created this mess" are, ultimately, subject to the people that make up the party. Who is to blame for candidates like Romney, McCain and Dole? Directly, the RNC and moderate voters... But what about conservatives who refuse to even bring up the issue? In this, I believe conservatives (including yours truly) are guilty of a sin of omission.

Context... I'm working under the understanding that the majority of the Republican party (the voters, if not the politicians) are conservatives. Election after election, moderates (again, who I believe based on primary results make up no more than 30% of GOP primary voters), because of this inadequacy (lack of run-offs) of the primary process end up deciding for us who will be the GOP candidate. That is intolerable. Why do we tolerate it?

Why in the hell doesn't anybody ever seem to talk about such a glaring problem? I've NEVER heard ANYONE on TV or radio (not even the most celebrated "conservative" pundits) talk about this. Pray tell... Why not??? I've got to imagine that there are more people than me who have attempted to discuss the subject on the radio (I've tried many times and have never got past the call screener... for Limbaugh, Hannity or Levine... and sent multiple emails to the same -- never received a reply)... If these thought leaders are conservatives, pray tell, why the silence?

BTW... on "the power of law"... I'm pretty sure that the law has nothing to do with it until you get to the actual election (the RNC, national and state, runs primaries -- it isn't up to any branch of government).

It is going to be different in 2016 if the truly conservative candidates do not self destruct. Having Cruz and Walker in the race gives the TEA movement two very good candidates. All the others will claim to be conservatives, but they really are not. None are bad folks or terrible candidates, except maybe Trump, but there too many RINO's in the race. It will all sort its way out. The only potential problem I see is Paul supporters will whine and bow out after he is eliminated. Hopefully, they will gravitate to a true conservative.

Quote from: supsalemgr on May 19, 2015, 12:52:51 PM
It is going to be different in 2016 if the truly conservative candidates do not self destruct. Having Cruz and Walker in the race gives the TEA movement two very good candidates. All the others will claim to be conservatives, but they really are not. None are bad folks or terrible candidates, except maybe Trump, but there too many RINO's in the race. It will all sort its way out. The only potential problem I see is Paul supporters will whine and bow out after he is eliminated. Hopefully, they will gravitate to a true conservative.

You're right on everything, but one thing I've been noticing in my travels. The Paulbots are fleeing in droves since he, Rand, has come out in support of several RINO/Establishment positions.
In short, they are downright pissed. His candidacy is finally imploding

Quote from: Solar on May 19, 2015, 01:00:14 PM
You're right on everything, but one thing I've been noticing in my travels. The Paulbots are fleeing in droves since he, Rand, has come out in support of several RINO/Establishment positions.
In short, they are downright pissed. His candidacy is finally imploding

That is encouraging. I continue to be puzzled by conservatives who think they are aligned with libertarians. We share some views, but overall we are totally different.

Quote from: supsalemgr on May 19, 2015, 01:06:03 PM
That is encouraging. I continue to be puzzled by conservatives who think they are aligned with libertarians. We share some views, but overall we are totally different.

What was once the Libertarian movement, where "live and let live" was a moral belief, has been usurped by kids looking to get high.
Libertarians did not believe in drug use, they have always been about law, Liberty and Freedom.
Sure, they felt if you wanted to brew your own whiskey, or grow a plant or two, that's your business, not the govts.
I know several Libertarians from my early years, all were solid America loving country types that took issue with the GOP, but like you and I, still supported them with a serious eye of skepticism.

These same people despise what the kids and libs are doing in morphing the true meaning behind the movement for totally selfish reasons, and ignorant of history.
Most of these guys have left the movement for TEA.

Quote from: quiller on May 18, 2015, 11:47:57 AM
I disagree. The GOP back-room boys will broker a convention before daring to put in a true conservative. Obama's positives are still above 40 and in their view it's potential suicide to give already-liberal voters that clear a distinction between candidates. They'll woo independents by staying left ("moderate").

I think that is exactly what they will attempt!  They understand that Jeb is a shaky candidate at best.  That is why they have fingered Rubio as their "man in waiting".  He is allowing himself to be compromised and used by the Establishment and this will truly split the RINO voters just as much as the conservative voters..... especially when you throw in Christie!  But the Establishment money will eventually starve all but one of their candidates for money.  Whichever of their guys is strongest after the debates will get ALL of their money. 

I believe we have a solid chance of winning this nomination.   That is why we must unify our rank and file conservatives behind a single candidate to the best of our ability.  We will continue to push Cruz through the debate cycle and see where we stand after that.  If we must make a course correction, we will do so.  But we must cling together as a voting bloc.

Quote from: kroz on May 19, 2015, 01:45:02 PM
I think that is exactly what they will attempt!  They understand that Jeb is a shaky candidate at best.  That is why they have fingered Rubio as their "man in waiting".  He is allowing himself to be compromised and used by the Establishment and this will truly split the RINO voters just as much as the conservative voters..... especially when you throw in Christie!  But the Establishment money will eventually starve all but one of their candidates for money.  Whichever of their guys is strongest after the debates will get ALL of their money. 

I believe we have a solid chance of winning this nomination.   That is why we must unify our rank and file conservatives behind a single candidate to the best of our ability.  We will continue to push Cruz through the debate cycle and see where we stand after that.  If we must make a course correction, we will do so.  But we must cling together as a voting bloc.

It is OK to have both Cruz and Walker in for the long run. We don't want one guy all the RINO's are shooting at. They need multiple targets. I personally think with so many RINO's they will be going after each other in a fight for the $.

Quote from: supsalemgr on May 19, 2015, 02:17:38 PM
It is OK to have both Cruz and Walker in for the long run. We don't want one guy all the RINO's are shooting at. They need multiple targets. I personally think with so many RINO's they will be going after each other in a fight for the $.

I agree.  But only one will get the lion's share of the RINO coffer.  The Establishment will manage their money shrewdly. 

Quote from: taxed on May 18, 2015, 02:38:30 PM
What's the difference?

At least the liberal is honest about being a liberal, unlike the RINO who tries to hide it, when his political arse is on the line.

Although it needs pointing out that neither is acceptable, as our representatives in our government! Both are liberals, and as such have no business holding elected office of any kind. Even if that office is dog catcher!