How is it that a party comprised of a conservative/small-government majority keeps giving us presidential candidates like Bob Dole, John McCain and Mitt Romney? If there were run-offs in GOP primaries, would things work out differently?

Consider 2012.... What I mean is, take a conservative whose first choice was Gingrich, Paul, Santorum or Perry. Assume his first choice didn't make the cut; and, one of the other 3 is facing Romney in a primary run-off. You can't be sure, but I don't think anyone who voted for a conservative the first go around would have voted for Romney in a run-off.

For example, take the 13 pre-Super-Tuesday 2012 state primaries (after which, the fat lady isn't quite singing but you can hear her warming up). In every state but Nevada, there would have been a run-off since no candidate garnered at least 50% of the vote. It is interesting to look at it state-by-state, but long story short, Romney emerged as the winner with only 41% of the popular vote; while conservatives lost with 59%. How's that grab you?

Problem is, we're tee'd up to do it all over again in 2016. Even worse this time (because there are so may very good candidates to split the conservative vote... which will of course benefit Jeb).

I don't imagine that anything can be done in time to fix things before the 2016 primaries. Even so, I think the least we can do it attempt to put the subject on the table. So, if the above makes any sense to you, I would much appreciate if you would consider signing my petition to RNC leadership. Here's a link if you are so inclined: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/956/031/236/america-needs-conservative-leadership-reform-the-gop-presidential-primary-process-now/?taf_id=13804140&cid=fb_na

I think Jeb has cooked his goose by dancing around the question of the invasion of Iraq.  First he would, then maybe not, then definitely not. I would vote for Hitler before I'd vote for Jeb Bush.  Well, that's too strong.  I would not ever vote for a Democrat. Anyhow, this is not a Monarchy.

Quote from: Agnlaw on May 18, 2015, 10:31:54 AM
How is it that a party comprised of a conservative/small-government majority keeps giving us presidential candidates like Bob Dole, John McCain and Mitt Romney? If there were run-offs in GOP primaries, would things work out differently?

Consider 2012.... What I mean is, take a conservative whose first choice was Gingrich, Paul, Santorum or Perry. Assume his first choice didn't make the cut; and, one of the other 3 is facing Romney in a primary run-off. You can't be sure, but I don't think anyone who voted for a conservative the first go around would have voted for Romney in a run-off.

For example, take the 13 pre-Super-Tuesday 2012 state primaries (after which, the fat lady isn't quite singing but you can hear her warming up). In every state but Nevada, there would have been a run-off since no candidate garnered at least 50% of the vote. It is interesting to look at it state-by-state, but long story short, Romney emerged as the winner with only 41% of the popular vote; while conservatives lost with 59%. How's that grab you?

Problem is, we're tee'd up to do it all over again in 2016. Even worse this time (because there are so may very good candidates to split the conservative vote... which will of course benefit Jeb).

I don't imagine that anything can be done in time to fix things before the 2016 primaries. Even so, I think the least we can do it attempt to put the subject on the table. So, if the above makes any sense to you, I would much appreciate if you would consider signing my petition to RNC leadership. Here's a link if you are so inclined: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/956/031/236/america-needs-conservative-leadership-reform-the-gop-presidential-primary-process-now/?taf_id=13804140&cid=fb_na

Not to worry. There are plenty of RINOS's in the race as well. Jeb is the leader by name recognition right now. I am confident a conservative will emerge and be victorious in 2016. The TEA movement is real and maturing.

If it helps, Agnlaw, try to think of it as something along the order of  a country club.  Not really perfect, but the alternative is to do the bidding of what's called "the public." As we all know, the public, by definition, lacks leadership ability, though don't try to tell it that.
We just heard of a recent FOX poll. It listed all the leaders, but Rand Paul was not on the list, even though he has been consistently in the top four.  La Cosa Nostra puts a black rose by the dinner plate. We won't go that far.
 

The GOP needs to take winning elections 101. (in grammar school)

Quote from: Agnlaw on May 18, 2015, 10:31:54 AM
How is it that a party comprised of a conservative/small-government majority keeps giving us presidential candidates like Bob Dole, John McCain and Mitt Romney? If there were run-offs in GOP primaries, would things work out differently?

Consider 2012.... What I mean is, take a conservative whose first choice was Gingrich, Paul, Santorum or Perry. Assume his first choice didn't make the cut; and, one of the other 3 is facing Romney in a primary run-off. You can't be sure, but I don't think anyone who voted for a conservative the first go around would have voted for Romney in a run-off.

For example, take the 13 pre-Super-Tuesday 2012 state primaries (after which, the fat lady isn't quite singing but you can hear her warming up). In every state but Nevada, there would have been a run-off since no candidate garnered at least 50% of the vote. It is interesting to look at it state-by-state, but long story short, Romney emerged as the winner with only 41% of the popular vote; while conservatives lost with 59%. How's that grab you?

Problem is, we're tee'd up to do it all over again in 2016. Even worse this time (because there are so may very good candidates to split the conservative vote... which will of course benefit Jeb).

I don't imagine that anything can be done in time to fix things before the 2016 primaries. Even so, I think the least we can do it attempt to put the subject on the table. So, if the above makes any sense to you, I would much appreciate if you would consider signing my petition to RNC leadership. Here's a link if you are so inclined: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/956/031/236/america-needs-conservative-leadership-reform-the-gop-presidential-primary-process-now/?taf_id=13804140&cid=fb_na

some of the powerful people in the GOP are cowards.  The stakes are high and they know it. SO DO WE!  While conservatives want to take big chances for big changes, many in our party think they can change things incrementally without risking everything by presenting a (too) conservative candidate.  This is the real bone of contention;  It is an arguable strategy that our candidate will appeal to a broader group of people if he/she appears to be "a moderate conservative".  (The results of the vote in the Electoral College show a Democrat advantage and that makes many nervous and open to the propaganda that we all are bombarded with everyday about what the American people want.)

I would rather throw caution to the wind having seen the American voters twice have gone with a much less than moderate, mainstream candidate.  Obama didn't win by playing it safe.  Granted, he did lie and pretend to be something that he's not, but everyone knew he was an extreme Liberal.

I BELIEVE that just as the American people were sick to death of Liberalism and voted against Jimmy Carter...to CHANGE direction, a Conserative candidate can be elected this time and there is no good reason to run someone who appears to be more of a moderate!  The winning strategy is to present a stark contrast to Obama's abysmal record.  Having created Romneycare, Romney could present this contrast very effectively, when Obamacare was the biggest issue of the last election!  We need the AntiObama who will articulate that the problem isn't Obama per say, it is his ideas and his polcies which are Liberalism and whoever the Dems run, we can then contrast our opposing positions!!!! 

I don't think it matters. None of the RINOS have a chance.

Quote from: The Boo Man... on May 18, 2015, 11:40:02 AM
I don't think it matters. None of the RINOS have a chance.

I disagree. The GOP back-room boys will broker a convention before daring to put in a true conservative. Obama's positives are still above 40 and in their view it's potential suicide to give already-liberal voters that clear a distinction between candidates. They'll woo independents by staying left ("moderate").

Quote from: The Boo Man... on May 18, 2015, 11:40:02 AM
I don't think it matters. None of the RINOS have a chance.

I disagree and I believe the fix is in for a RINO. Remember...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKaXqoC4DjE

Quote from: quiller on May 18, 2015, 11:47:57 AM
I disagree. The GOP back-room boys will broker a convention before daring to put in a true conservative. Obama's positives are still above 40 and in their view it's potential suicide to give already-liberal voters that clear a distinction between candidates. They'll woo independents by staying left ("moderate").

They're going to get stomped like a slug on a sidewalk.  The RINO have no chance.

It is good to hear the optimism from so many of you. Even so, I was POSITIVE that we would put a conservative in the Whitehouse back around Q4 of 2011 (remember... BHO had lost his shine by then).

Then I saw the math... The party is 20-30% progressive (aka moderate, aka rino, aka establishment). Run enough good conservatives (and it looks like there will be plenty of them this time around) to split up the majority and, presto... Romney is the candidate.

I pinched my nose and voted for Dole. The same for McCain. Didn't vote for president in 2012 and if Bush wins the primary, I'll skip it again. "He's better than Hillary" isn't enough for me anymore. Sick and tired of being taken for granted by the GOP.

I won't bore everyone with all of the numbers, but if you want to make yourself as sick as I am, have a look at the 2012 results state-by-state then ask yourself, how is it that we have allowed 20-30% of the party to choose our candidates, election after election? http://www.ask.com/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012?o=2800&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com

I am NY on one side of the family, MA on the other. Contrary to what is projected in the media, both states are home to a majority of honest, decent people. Especially, when you get out of the big city.

Now, I am coming to view Bloomberg, Del Blasio, and Warren as silent pleas for help, on the parts of the citizens of the states. They know how repulsive these candidates are.  They also know the states cannot continue down the road they have been on. But, they are stuck. They are locked in, and they cry out for help, relief.

Quote from: Agnlaw on May 18, 2015, 01:43:41 PM
It is good to hear the optimism from so many of you. Even so, I was POSITIVE that we would put a conservative in the Whitehouse back around Q4 of 2011 (remember... BHO had lost his shine by then).

Then I saw the math... The party is 20-30% progressive (aka moderate, aka rino, aka establishment). Run enough good conservatives (and it looks like there will be plenty of them this time around) to split up the majority and, presto... Romney is the candidate.

I pinched my nose and voted for Dole. The same for McCain. Didn't vote for president in 2012 and if Bush wins the primary, I'll skip it again. "He's better than Hillary" isn't enough for me anymore. Sick and tired of being taken for granted by the GOP.

I won't bore everyone with all of the numbers, but if you want to make yourself as sick as I am, have a look at the 2012 results state-by-state then ask yourself, how is it that we have allowed 20-30% of the party to choose our candidates, election after election? http://www.ask.com/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012?o=2800&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com

That's because they left you with no other options.
This time is completely different.

Quote from: Agnlaw on May 18, 2015, 01:43:41 PM
It is good to hear the optimism from so many of you. Even so, I was POSITIVE that we would put a conservative in the Whitehouse back around Q4 of 2011 (remember... BHO had lost his shine by then).

Then I saw the math... The party is 20-30% progressive (aka moderate, aka rino, aka establishment). Run enough good conservatives (and it looks like there will be plenty of them this time around) to split up the majority and, presto... Romney is the candidate.

I pinched my nose and voted for Dole. The same for McCain. Didn't vote for president in 2012 and if Bush wins the primary, I'll skip it again. "He's better than Hillary" isn't enough for me anymore. Sick and tired of being taken for granted by the GOP.

I won't bore everyone with all of the numbers, but if you want to make yourself as sick as I am, have a look at the 2012 results state-by-state then ask yourself, how is it that we have allowed 20-30% of the party to choose our candidates, election after election? http://www.ask.com/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012?o=2800&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com

I think most people feel that way.  A lot of things are different this cycle.

Quote from: quiller on May 18, 2015, 11:47:57 AM
I disagree. The GOP back-room boys will broker a convention before daring to put in a true conservative. Obama's positives are still above 40 and in their view it's potential suicide to give already-liberal voters that clear a distinction between candidates. They'll woo independents by staying left ("moderate").

I prefer a liberal to a moderate. You can see the liberal's teeth.