Quote from: WMK on May 18, 2023, 09:03:02 AMWhat's a "timeout"?

It is a time period where you will not be allowed to post and where we get a break from you're bull crap.

Quote from: Possum on May 18, 2023, 10:06:58 AMIt is a time period where you will not be allowed to post and where we get a break from you're bull crap.

That's too bad. It's starting to sound like any pro-DeSantis or Trump critiquing is not wanted or accepted here. Cult group-think tends to be that way; defensive about their credo and the compulsion  to react viscerally to defend it. MAGA is more cultic in its group think than I ever realized.  Thought there was more independent thinking going on there.
All Solar has to do is ask me to leave and I'm outta here.  Anyone's opinion that's anti-Trump during the primary certainly seems to be, persona non grata.

Quote from: WMK on May 18, 2023, 09:03:02 AMWhat's a "timeout"?

FA/FO

Quote from: WMK on May 18, 2023, 12:25:46 PMThat's too bad. It's starting to sound like any pro-DeSantis or Trump critiquing is not wanted or accepted here. Cult group-think tends to be that way; defensive about their credo and the compulsion  to react viscerally to defend it. MAGA is more cultic in its group think than I ever realized.  Thought there was more independent thinking going on there.
All Solar has to do is ask me to leave and I'm outta here.  Anyone's opinion that's anti-Trump during the primary certainly seems to be, persona non grata.

No, it's your refusal to debate, it really is that simple!

Quote from: WMK on May 18, 2023, 12:25:46 PMThat's too bad. It's starting to sound like any pro-DeSantis or Trump critiquing is not wanted or accepted here. Cult group-think tends to be that way; defensive about their credo and the compulsion  to react viscerally to defend it. MAGA is more cultic in its group think than I ever realized.  Thought there was more independent thinking going on there.
All Solar has to do is ask me to leave and I'm outta here.  Anyone's opinion that's anti-Trump during the primary certainly seems to be, persona non grata.

Damn, wrong again. This is a debate forum, but when asked for where you get your opinions you never offer them up. Yes, we know how you feel, how you have hopes, but you ignore so many points that are presented to you and always revert to your same ol same ol.

Case in point, it has been pointed out DeSantis has benefited from bills passed by a conservative Florida congress.  You imply that is proof that this is how he will govern on the national stage. It's not.

I have asked several times if Trump's economy during the pandemic would have been better had governors like DeSantis not shut down their states. NO answer.

I could keep going on and on, but that would get us going in circles for which your posts are known for. If you really want to be taken seriously, and believe me up to this point you are not, start posting in concrete ideas and less feelings, ex. take what happened, how DeSantis handled Disney, tell your side and why those results are one reason you back DeSantis.  I will give you fair warning, that situation was not handled in any method that conservatives would endorse. Maybe you could start with something else.

On to Trump, most on this forum, myself included DID NOT WANT TRUMP!! Do you understand that? But we saw how he ran the country, first hand, the way it should be run, and that is why we back him. All I see from you is orange man bad. Great, you and pelosi have something in common. You're screaming with nothing to go on how DeSantis will be the best thing since sliced bread and how Trump screwed everything up. That really does not bring anything to the forum.

https://twitter.com/Peoples_Pundit/status/1659684868211572737

https://twitter.com/Peoples_Pundit/status/1659747658636902400

Quote from: taxed on May 19, 2023, 10:23:15 PMhttps://twitter.com/Peoples_Pundit/status/1659747658636902400

"It's not how you start it's how you finish." 
Think everybody made mistakes about Covid, except maybe those who actually engineered it.
DeSantis' choice to lockdown was a decision only the Govs. could make, as was his decision to open earlier than most Govs. As executive, those decisions are on him.   That Fla's. economic recovery, incredible grown, explosive tourism, solid state budget, et al, happened all during the pandemic, is itself a testament to DeSantis' decision to open early and not to stay in 'lockdown' mode. And his historic election victory speak these achievements.
These facts are immutable and will stand out in the end, IMO.

Like Trump, DeSantis saw the damage 'lockdowns' would do, though Trump was first to acknowledge them. I know. I heard him.  But the stark, defining difference between these two is DeSantis took action and corrected his mistake(s).  Trump did not make the necessary adjustments. 
In the end, DeSantis romped, while Trump fell short.

Quote from: WMK on May 20, 2023, 10:25:38 AM"It's not how you start it's how you finish." 
Think everybody made mistakes about Covid, except maybe those who actually engineered it.
DeSantis' choice to lockdown was a decision only the Govs. could make, as was his decision to open earlier than most Govs. As executive, those decisions are on him.   That Fla's. economic recovery, incredible grown, explosive tourism, solid state budget, et al, happened all during the pandemic, is itself a testament to DeSantis' decision to open early and not to stay in 'lockdown' mode. And his historic election victory speak these achievements.
These facts are immutable and will stand out in the end, IMO.

Like Trump, DeSantis saw the damage 'lockdowns' would do, though Trump was first to acknowledge them. I know. I heard him.  But the stark, defining difference between these two is DeSantis took action and corrected his mistake(s).  Trump did not make the necessary adjustments. 
In the end, DeSantis romped, while Trump fell short.

Rewriting history is what lib trolls do!!!
Trump left office in Jan 2020, DeSantis was way late to the party. There is no comparison!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2021/07/30/floridas-desantis-signing-order-to-block-mask-mandates-in-schools/?sh=40dfbbb3d877

Quote from: Possum on May 18, 2023, 01:47:25 PMDamn, wrong again. This is a debate forum, but when asked for where you get your opinions you never offer them up. Yes, we know how you feel, how you have hopes, but you ignore so many points that are presented to you and always revert to your same ol same ol.

QuoteYou just said they're 'opinions'. And that's what they are. That's what I view much of what you say -opinion. Debate exists because "opinions" vary. Interpretation of the facts can vary.

QuoteCase in point, it has been pointed out DeSantis has benefited from bills passed by a conservative Florida congress.  You imply that is proof that this is how he will govern on the national stage. It's not.
 

"Proof" is your choice of word, and it is subjective in the way you apply it. How can anything be "proof" if it hasn't been done yet. My "opinion" is that DeSantis will govern well, no matter who's in the room with him.

QuoteI have asked several times if Trump's economy during the pandemic would have been better had governors like DeSantis not shut down their states. NO answer. 

That's an obvious, yes. Isn't it. You could also say,  govs would never have stayed "shut down" had citizens not been so ignorant or cowardly about their Constitutional rights. So, who isn't to blame to some degree here?  IMO, the question is an obvious "gotcha" type question.

Quoteelse.

On to Trump, most on this forum, myself included DID NOT WANT TRUMP!! Do you understand that? But we saw how he ran the country, first hand, the way it should be run, and that is why we back him. All I see from you is orange man bad. Great, you and pelosi have something in common. You're screaming with nothing to go on how DeSantis will be the best thing since sliced bread and how Trump screwed everything up. That really does not bring anything to the forum.

I've said this before, I know, I was there. I even voted for the guy, twice! If you don't think Fla's a much improved state under DeSantis, especially during covid,then our opinions will continue to vary greatly.

Quotecould keep going on and on, but that would get us going in circles for which your posts are known for. If you really want to be taken seriously, and believe me up to this point you are not, start posting in concrete ideas and less feelings, ex. take what happened, how DeSantis handled Disney, tell your side and why those results are one reason you back DeSantis.  I will give you fair warning, that situation was not handled in any method that conservatives would endorse. Maybe you could start with something

You seem to think all conservatives still think the same way about "business". Well you're entirely wrong. Many, myself included, stop being pro-business when many of the 'global' types decided to become oligarchs. The same is true about foreign policy; used to be a neocon, but am now an isolationist, thanks to "W's" massive blunder in Iraq. Nation building is not what America should be doing.

And finally, What irritates you about my posts is that they're consistent. But your angst comes in assessing my statements as "facts" when they're merely an expression  opinions. If I thought something was, "fact" I would use that word in context with what I say.
 

Quote from: Solar on May 20, 2023, 11:19:49 AMRewriting history is what lib trolls do!!!
Trump left office in Jan 2020, DeSantis was way late to the party. There is no comparison!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2021/07/30/floridas-desantis-signing-order-to-block-mask-mandates-in-schools/?sh=40dfbbb3d877

I agree. No comparison. One won, and one lost. Can't do much "rewriting" there.

Quote from: WMK on May 20, 2023, 11:42:10 AM"Proof" is your choice of word, and it is subjective in the way you apply it. How can anything be "proof" if it hasn't been done yet. My "opinion" is that DeSantis will govern well, no matter who's in the room with him.That's an obvious, yes.

Exactly my point, so why are you insisting DeSantis will be a success in his foreign policy? 

QuoteIsn't it. You could also say,  govs would never have stayed "shut down" had citizens not been so ignorant or cowardly about their Constitutional rights. So, who isn't to blame to some degree here?  IMO, the question is an obvious "gotcha" type question.

I am unaware of any state where the PEOPLE shut it down. Many stayed home, fine, that is their choice. But it was most of the Governors who shut down their states. Texas was one of the few that allowed the cities and businesses themselves to form their own rules. As I told you before, where I live there were no mandates, shutdowns, or proof of jabs. 

QuoteI've said this before, I know, I was there. I even voted for the guy, twice! If you don't think Fla's a much improved state under DeSantis, especially during covid,then our opinions will continue to vary greatly.

Exactly how did shutting down businesses in Florida improve the state? How did forcing the people to GIVE UP SOME OF THEIR RIGHTS improve Florida? Stop blaming the citizens for what their governor did, the only item they are guilty of is voting for him.

QuoteYou seem to think all conservatives still think the same way about "business". Well you're entirely wrong. Many, myself included, stop being pro-business when many of the 'global' types decided to become oligarchs. The same is true about foreign policy; used to be a neocon, but am now an isolationist, thanks to "W's" massive blunder in Iraq.

As is their right. Conservatives want to boycott Disney, fine, great, I'm all for it. But when government wants to punish businesses for the way they think, which is EXACTLY what DeSantis did, he revoked Disney's tax status in order to punish them for their stance on social and education issues, is where I draw the line AS DO CONSERVATIVES! There is no difference in what DeSantis did and what Obama did when he used to IRS to go after conservative non- profit groups. NONE!

QuoteNation building is not what America should be doing.

Not sure what you are trying to say here, but I am guessing you are implying we should take care of America first?????
You do realize Trump is all for putting America first?? You know, he started that??

QuoteAnd finally, What irritates you about my posts is that they're consistent.

Bull sh-t is consistent too, but not much to brag on.

QuoteBut your angst comes in assessing my statements as "facts" when they're merely an expression  opinions. If I thought something was, "fact" I would use that word in context with what I say.

Better go back and reread your posts.

Quote from: WMK on May 20, 2023, 11:53:00 AMI agree. No comparison. One won, and one lost. Can't do much "rewriting" there.

WTF was that even supposed to mean?

You claimed Trump dropped the ball before DeSantis came to save the day, only to discover Trump had already been out of office for more than a year when Ron finally came to his senses.

Just admit you were wrong and move on. This is a debate forum, not a game of winning. The only losers are the American people!
Facts count! So just check your claims before posting, or someone here is going to expose you for the political history noob you are.

Same Guy!!!            

Quote from: Possum on May 20, 2023, 12:17:10 PMExactly my point, so why are you insisting DeSantis will be a success in his foreign policy? 

The only ones I know that can be "insisting" anything here is 'admin.' I'm just a poster who's confident and staunchly grounded in his belief system. My judgement on DeSantis comes from how he's governed his state overall. I also like what he did against China more recently as it relates to Fla. real estate.

QuoteI am unaware of any state where the PEOPLE shut it down. Many stayed home, fine, that is their choice. But it was most of the Governors who shut down their states. Texas was one of the few that allowed the cities and businesses themselves to form their own rules. As I told you before, where I live there were no mandates, shutdowns, or proof of jabs.

It was ALL the governors that instigated the "shut downs". Never the people. But, it was, and still is on the citizens to resist whatever unconstitutional infringement(s) were placed on them . If they'd resisted the unconstitutional mandates in any kind of numbers, how would the mandates be enforceable? That's what I mean when I say citizens kept the states shut down.

!

QuoteAs is their right. Conservatives want to boycott Disney, fine, great, I'm all for it. But when government wants to punish businesses for the way they think, which is EXACTLY what DeSantis did, he revoked Disney's tax status in order to punish them for their stance on social and education issues, is where I draw the line AS DO CONSERVATIVES! There is no difference in what DeSantis did and what Obama did when he used to IRS to go after conservative non- profit groups. NONE

By "conservative - non profits, do you include religious groups in that mix?  Also, is Disney a "non-profit?  I'd say that's a huge difference.

QuoteNot sure what you are trying to say here, but I am guessing you are implying we should take care of America first? 

Yes, that's right.

QuoteYou do realize Trump is all for putting America first?? You know, he started that??

QuoteWhy do you think I voted for him, twice?