Debate thread

[Josie]

First of all, I don't think links to Breitbart are banned outright. Only in the case where Breitbart is serving as a bulletin board for articles that could be linked to their original source. It's always better on an open forum to make everything available to everyone reading, meaning in this case, posting the link in the thread. I suspect though, that the url given in the link Solar posted is the transcript in question.

Second, I have noticed that in every case so far where these accusations have flown between Cruz and Rubio, Rubio has proven to be the one fudging the truth, most notably in regard to Cruz's role in the Gang of Eight negotiations.

About this particular issue, it is clear to me from reading his statement that Rubio meant to support Obama's DACA program. I can't say that he is insincere about wanting to phase it out eventually -- after all, proper border and visa enforcement would make the issue moot -- but it seems to me that isn't at issue.

What we are missing is the alleged contradiction where Rubio said otherwise in English. If he said, or implied, that he is unabashedly opposed to Obama's DACA program and would end it forthwith upon assuming office, even for current beneficiaries, then Cruz is right about Rubio contradicting himself. If Rubio has admitted in English that he favors continuance of DACA for those currently affected, then he wins on the issue of honesty and whether or not he misrepresented himself, but presumably still loses among the GOP electorate on the issue itself. That's the piece we're missing -- what did Rubio say in English, that Cruz is referring to.

In regard to the translation of the Univision interview, I agree with Solar that substituting the semicolon for a period makes no appreciable difference in the statement Rubio made.

On legalization Rubio is 100% correct. I showed you the Cruz tweet when he said "border secure than legalization".

I linked the Univision link in my post above this one, have a look.

[Dubinsky]

This is a link to the author of the article I was referring to.

https://twitter.com/rumpfshaker/status/693160058260103168

Cruz counting on confusing between DAPA and DACA

Rumpf from the land of tweets again? The expert linguist.  

[taxed]

The reason Rubio called Cruz out was because Cruz has been outright lying to his audiences for months now saying that Rubio told Univision something different in Spanish than what he was telling English speaking crowds in regards to immigration. Cruz knows this is a lie that has been debunked long ago, but he continues to repeat it over and over.

Incorrect.  Cruz has not lied about anything.  Rubio continues to lie.  He needs people of low intellect to buy into his lies and parrot them.  It doesn't work here.

Cruz himself admitted that he doesn't speak Spanish well and IMO Rubio got the best of Cruz in that exchange.

Rubio tried to sneak another lie into the debate saying Cruz can't speak Spanish.  Cruz then spoke Spanish in front of millions of people.  Rubio lies again.

I can't link my proof because it's from Breitbart, before it became Trumpbart, but it admits that Marco was mistranslated.

Good, link it.

If you like I can send you the link in a PM...

Nope, post it right here.

He's been saying it in English and Spanish.  Why is this confusing to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEK5E-9bRws

[taxed]

On legalization Rubio is 100% correct. I showed you the Cruz tweet when he said "border secure than legalization".

Yes, but your attempt to lie about the context doesn't work here.  Most of us were following the whole Gang of Eight situation, and cheered Cruz on as he fought it.  The reason you think Cruz was saying that in the context of that's what he wanted is because you choose not to think.  Please turn your brain on and quit spreading propaganda.

You are for amnesty.  That is an un-American position.

[Josie]

Rumpf from the land of tweets again? The expert linguist.

Umm she is the person that wrote the article, genius.

[Josie]

Yes, but your attempt to lie about the context doesn't work here.  Most of us were following the whole Gang of Eight situation, and cheered Cruz on as he fought it.  The reason you think Cruz was saying that in the context of that's what he wanted is because you choose not to think.  Please turn your brain on and quit spreading propaganda.

You are for amnesty.  That is an un-American position.

Firstly, I'm not for "amnesty" an neither is Marco Rubio



Secondly maybe Rubio should start saying he joined the Gof8 as a poison pill... apparently it works.

[taxed]

Umm she is the person that wrote the article, genius.

https://grabien.com/story.php?id=26457


I believe, if I become President, it is going to be possible to achieve immigration reform. It is not going to be comprehensive, that is to say, it is not going to all be in one massive bill. We already tried that a few years ago. We've seen there isn't political support for it and I think we've wasted a lot of time in this process, when we could have made progress through the steps I've advocated.  Unfortunately, a lot has been spent with that, it's become an even more controversial subject, more difficult to make progress on, but I'm still saying it's important to modernize our system and that means improving the way we enforce in the future, modernizing the immigration system so that it isn't as costly and bureaucratic and we have to deal with the 12 million human beings who are here and no one, no one is advocating a plan to deport 12 million people, so that topic has to be dealt with as well."




Josie, you may support amnesty, but like Rubio said, there's no political support (hint: Cruz, Sessions, etc).

[taxed]

Firstly, I'm not for "amnesty" an neither is Marco Rubio



Secondly maybe Rubio should start saying he joined the Gof8 as a poison pill... apparently it works.

http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/political-discussion-and-debate/debate-thread-23851/msg290494/#msg290494



Keep trying.... I love watching it....

[taxed]

Rubio, on Hannity, supporting Amnesty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBAy6cB4lb0

[Josie]

https://grabien.com/story.php?id=26457


I believe, if I become President, it is going to be possible to achieve immigration reform. It is not going to be comprehensive, that is to say, it is not going to all be in one massive bill. We already tried that a few years ago. We've seen there isn't political support for it and I think we've wasted a lot of time in this process, when we could have made progress through the steps I've advocated.  Unfortunately, a lot has been spent with that, it's become an even more controversial subject, more difficult to make progress on, but I'm still saying it's important to modernize our system and that means improving the way we enforce in the future, modernizing the immigration system so that it isn't as costly and bureaucratic and we have to deal with the 12 million human beings who are here and no one, no one is advocating a plan to deport 12 million people, so that topic has to be dealt with as well."




Josie, you may support amnesty, but like Rubio said, there's no political support (hint: Cruz, Sessions, etc).

Are you forgetting that Cruz said to CNN a month ago that he won't be sending jack boots to deport 12 million people?

Again, what does Cruz plan on doing with these people? He avoids that question and his website doesn't get specific either.

Rubio's immigration isn't amnesty, paying fines and waiting in line for years isn't what Obama is advocating at all.

[Cali Contrarian]

Yes, but your attempt to lie about the context doesn't work here.  Most of us were following the whole Gang of Eight situation, and cheered Cruz on as he fought it.  The reason you think Cruz was saying that in the context of that's what he wanted is because you choose not to think.  Please turn your brain on and quit spreading propaganda.

You are for amnesty.  That is an un-American position.

Oh, is that what happened? I had no clue what she was talking about. I'm still pretty unclear. I guess it's a simple case of changing the subject? I thought we were discussing whether or not Rubio was talking out of both sides of his mouth.

[taxed]

Are you forgetting that Cruz said to CNN a month ago that he won't be sending jack boots to deport 12 million people?

No, I remember that.  I agree with him, as do most normal people.  NOT sending jackboots door-to-door is not being in favor of amnesty.  Honey, save the reaching for Yoga class.

Again, what does Cruz plan on doing with these people? He avoids that question and his website doesn't get specific either.

This has been answered to you many times.


Listen to Ted's answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldr-1ovy2zk

Rubio's immigration isn't amnesty, paying fines and waiting in line for years isn't what Obama is advocating at all.

It's pretty clear you don't know what the Gang of Eight bill was all about.
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2015/12/19/the-ugly-truth-about-marco-rubio-and-his-gangofeight-amnesty-bill-n2095418/page/full

I know you want Rubio and amnesty, but the country is rejecting liberalism.  Rubio is a RINO, plain and simple.  That's why Conservative Review gives him a Liberty Score of C:

https://www.conservativereview.com/members/marco-rubio/

Sorry Josie... the country is rejecting the liberalism you support.

[taxed]

Oh, is that what happened? I had no clue what she was talking about. I'm still pretty unclear. I guess it's a simple case of changing the subject? I thought we were discussing whether or not Rubio was talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Nope.  Her entire thing is that Rubio is not for amnesty, but Cruz is.

[Josie]

Incorrect.  Cruz has not lied about anything.  Rubio continues to lie.  He needs people of low intellect to buy into his lies and parrot them.  It doesn't work here.
Rubio tried to sneak another lie into the debate saying Cruz can't speak Spanish.  Cruz then spoke Spanish in front of millions of people.  Rubio lies again.

"low intellect" mmk well it was Cruz himself that said he wasn't good at speaking Spanish, but that's besides the point. The point here is that Rubio was mistranslated.

Good, link it.
Nope, post it right here.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/18/rubio-affirms-hell-end-obamas-executive-amnesty-univision-interview-mistranslated/

He's been saying it in English and Spanish.  Why is this confusing to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEK5E-9bRws

We disagree on what constitutes amnesty.

[Cali Contrarian]

Nope.  Her entire thing is that Rubio is not for amnesty, but Cruz is.

That may be so, but she started this discussion by defending Rubio of the charge made by Cruz in the debate. Rather weakly, I might add. That was a more specific charge than "amnesty."