Quote from: Solar on October 09, 2013, 09:15:07 AM
Of which all contain a governing body of the people, hence, Govt.

We need to understand what government is and what it is not.

Companies have governing bodies- but this is not a government in the sense of a territorial monopolist.

It is the distinction between choice and force that separates voluntary associations from governments.

I know you understand all this, it is simple.

You just don't want to acknowledge that anarchy and order are possible and consistent with each other. Harry over at the other place has the same blind spot.

Quote from: TowardLiberty on October 09, 2013, 09:24:32 AM
We need to understand what government is and what it is not.

Companies have governing bodies- but this is not a government in the sense of a territorial monopolist.

It is the distinction between choice and force that separates voluntary associations from governments.

I know you understand all this, it is simple.

You just don't want to acknowledge that anarchy and order are possible and consistent with each other. Harry over at the other place has the same blind spot.

No son, it is you with a serious blind spot, that being human nature.
You make this wild leap of controlled chaos without laws will somehow succeed.

I explained laws without teeth are nothing more than guidelines, you then claim a private security force.
And whats to stop this force from taking over?

The same blind spot that Marxists have.

That the people will magically transform to loving, non-selfish, take only what you need and leave the rest, do unto others........sweethearts.

Without any structure or system to mandate or encourage it.  All govt. magically disappears and only good things result.

Quote from: AndyJackson on October 09, 2013, 09:35:25 AM
The same blind spot that Marxists have.

That the people will magically transform to loving, non-selfish, take only what you need and leave the rest, do unto others........sweethearts.

Without any structure or system to mandate or encourage it.  All govt. magically disappears and only good things result.

Sadly, he sees only his Utopia, he fails to understand occurrences like Sharia law interfering with his form of non-govt.
He is assuming all people will share in his ideals equally, which is a denial of human nature.

Quote from: Solar on October 09, 2013, 09:29:46 AM
No son, it is you with a serious blind spot, that being human nature.
You make this wild leap of controlled chaos without laws will somehow succeed.

I explained laws without teeth are nothing more than guidelines, you then claim a private security force.
And whats to stop this force from taking over?

Without laws?

Who said anything about not having laws?

Have you ever heard of customary law?

What stops private security firms from taking over?  The desire to earn money. I'd walk you through it but I don't think anything will move you from your Hobbesian view of society.

In your mind, everyone is downright despicable and if not for the benevolent state, would plunder their neighbors.

Though, I wonder where you hope to populate the ranks of the state, if not from these very same flawed humans?

Given your understanding of human nature, and its hopeless flaws, one wonders how you can see social cooperation arising by giving some of these flawed men a monopoly in the production of law and security?

What stops them from running roughshod over their neighbors using the faux legitimacy of the state?

What stops them from confiscating more and more? Regulating more and more?

Quote from: AndyJackson on October 09, 2013, 09:35:25 AM
The same blind spot that Marxists have.

That the people will magically transform to loving, non-selfish, take only what you need and leave the rest, do unto others........sweethearts.

Without any structure or system to mandate or encourage it.  All govt. magically disappears and only good things result.

Don't pin that nonsense on me!

That is your argument, not mine!

It is assumed that these selfish humans magically are transformed into benevolent leaders when given a monopoly position. Humans cannot be trusted to cooperate on their own, or so it is thought.

But put some in power and call this power the government, and magically they will be transformed in altruists!

Meanwhile history is nothing but one example after another of the powerful using the government to exploit others.

I guess Lord Acton's famous quote regarding the corrupting nature of power has been forgotten.

And as to the structure that brings men into cooperation with another- it is nothing that the government provides. Rather that structure is the institution of private property rights.

Damn man, you're as bad or worse than these idiots con4ever and common sense.

Just making noise to make yourself feel good, totally oblivious that you have no credibility, not one person who thinks you're making sense.

Well, I guess that's what the internet is all about.  Give peope like you at least a minimal connection to other humans, no matter how hopeless and annoying you may be.

I guess I should turn on my sympathy and empathy, and be glad that aren't just sitting the dark, fuming and alone.

Quote from: AndyJackson on October 09, 2013, 08:16:22 PM
Damn man, you're as bad or worse than these idiots con4ever and common sense.

Just making noise to make yourself feel good, totally oblivious that you have no credibility, not one person who thinks you're making sense.

Well, I guess that's what the internet is all about.  Give peope like you at least a minimal connection to other humans, no matter how hopeless and annoying you may be.

I guess I should turn on my sympathy and empathy, and be glad that aren't just sitting the dark, fuming and alone.

A young Trip. Notice the resemblance?

Quote from: Solar on October 08, 2013, 11:04:41 AM
Bingo!!!

Thanks. Well, as I read my phrase again, I notice it is just obvious liberals are political aliens in any society, otherwise how could they be "progressive". They just suddenly appear out of the blue, and start propagate some new moral values which they claim to be better, but are actually worse. I would like to thank all who participated in this topic, I learned a lot about the anarchy.

Quote from: Solar on October 10, 2013, 05:50:44 AM
A young Trip. Notice the resemblance?

lol, yup.  He's looks more like trip II with every post.  You guys know him......is he trip's son  ?  That would be the most logical explanation for the uncanny resemblance.

Quote from: AndyJackson on October 10, 2013, 10:06:09 AM
lol, yup.  He's looks more like trip II with every post.  You guys know him......is he trip's son  ?  That would be the most logical explanation for the uncanny resemblance.

Related? I don't know, but they both have a myopic view of life, and hyper focus on a singular agenda and human nature be damned, we can force a round peg in a square hole if you just click your heals together..