Quote from: kramarat on July 17, 2012, 04:48:04 PM
Once again, it appears as if you refuse to read the links. 10,000,000 Chinese civilian casualties. Who do you think was behind them?

The Japanese needed to be stopped. They refused. They placed munitions factories, (intentionally), within civilian populations. They decided to take the gamble that the US wouldn't resort to using their own tactics against them.........................they were wrong.

War sucks.

Just because Someone does something unspeakable doesn't mean Someone else should do the same.  War does suck, aiming at civilians sucks worse.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 04:37:33 PM
No.

You seem to understand little about modern industrial war. This isn't war as it used to be; say before the American Civil, modern warfare demands modern industry. This makes the industrial plant of a nation a valid target. you can't very well shot at a soldier carrying a rifle, while allowing the home front to simply make more rifles, to arm more troops, to continue the war indefinitely. There's and old saying: "Amateurs talk strategy and tactics, professionals talk logistics".  It's the logistical tail that provides the "teeth" of war. To attack the plants and factories making the weapons of war, you must end up attacking the people - civilians - sitting in those plants and factories making the weapons of war. Do you think civilians - or the representatives the select - should be allowed to have a say as to whether the state goes to war or not. If so, why should they be insulated from the effects of their decision?

Quote from: mdgiles on July 17, 2012, 05:08:44 PM
You seem to understand little about modern industrial war. This isn't war as it used to be; say before the American Civil, modern warfare demands modern industry. This makes the industrial plant of a nation a valid target. you can't very well shot at a soldier carrying a rifle, while allowing the home front to simply make more rifles, to arm more troops, to continue the war indefinitely. There's and old saying: "Amateurs talk strategy and tactics, professionals talk logistics".  It's the logistical tail that provides the "teeth" of war. To attack the plants and factories making the weapons of war, you must end up attacking the people - civilians - sitting in those plants and factories making the weapons of war. Do you think civilians - or the representatives the select - should be allowed to have a say as to whether the state goes to war or not. If so, why should they be insulated from the effects of their decision?

With that^ are You condoning any future attacks on American civilians?   


And I don't believe women and children had the rights You speak of when we dropped the atomic bomb. As others have stated here, they were under "emperor" rule.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 05:05:41 PM

Just because Someone does something unspeakable doesn't mean Someone else should do the same.  War does suck, aiming at civilians sucks worse.

Our goal is to end wars. If we tie our hands behind our backs and attempt to fight a moral war against immoral people, we will never win.

In order to preserve life, bringing an end to war, must be priority #1.

Somehow you have come to the conclusion that the civilian Japanese lives were worth more than the civilians that they were murdering by the millions. I beg to differ.

Quote from: kramarat on July 17, 2012, 05:18:29 PM
Our goal is to end wars. If we tie our hands behind our backs and attempt to fight a moral war against immoral people, we will never win.

And that^ is probably correct, but We would lose honorably.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 05:17:32 PM

With that^ are You condoning any future attacks on American civilians?   


And I don't believe women and children had the rights You speak of when we dropped the atomic bomb. As others have stated here, they were under "emperor" rule.

I don't have to condone it, because if we go to war and our enemies can get at us it will happen. Unlike you our potential enemies understand where the war strength of a polity lies. If the Japanese or Germans had long range bombers and the bases to use them from, do you think they would have bombed the US. We understood this,  which is why, for example, aircraft plants on the west coast were camouflaged.

Quote from: mdgiles on July 17, 2012, 05:50:06 PM
I don't have to condone it

No, You don't have to, but it reads a bit like You do.

Quote from: mdgiles on July 17, 2012, 05:08:44 PM
Do you think civilians - or the representatives the select - should be allowed to have a say as to whether the state goes to war or not. If so, why should they be insulated from the effects of their decision?

That's why I asked.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 05:22:12 PM

And that^ is probably correct, but We would lose honorably.

And THAT^ is just about the dumbest statement I've read in a very long time.

Quote from: tbone0106 on July 17, 2012, 06:02:41 PM
And THAT^ is just about the dumbest statement I've read in a very long time.

Is it dumb to want to be honorable? Is it dumb to rather have sound morals than victory? I don't believe so.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 06:03:48 PM

Is it dumb to want to be honorable? Is it dumb to rather have sound morals than victory? I don't believe so.

War is war, and today there is little short of total war.

Showing up at a gunfight with a pillow in one hand and a teddy bear in the other is dumb, sir, very dumb.

What's smart about getting honorably dead?

Quote from: tbone0106 on July 17, 2012, 06:06:40 PM
War is war, and today there is little short of total war.

Showing up at a gunfight with a pillow in one hand and a teddy bear in the other is dumb, sir, very dumb.

What's smart about getting honorably dead?

Nothing I've said equates to a teddy and pillow.  But showing up to a war with an atomic bomb for everyone in a city is wrong, sir, very wrong.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 06:16:10 PM

Nothing I've said equates to a teddy and pillow.  But showing up to a war with an atomic bomb for everyone in a city is wrong, sir, very wrong.

Quick quiz -- Before August 6, 1945, how many atomic bombs had been detonated by the US?

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 06:03:48 PM

Is it dumb to want to be honorable? Is it dumb to rather have sound morals than victory? I don't believe so.

Losing a war against relentless murderers is not honorable you dipshit.

According to your theory, we should have simply destroyed our nukes during the cold war, ceded a win to to the USSR...................all based on our moral high ground. Is your name Obama?

I certainly hope you aren't working in any decision making position within the US government.

Cowards like Obama, that think that they can apologize their way out of any future conflicts, are hopelessly naive.

Tell me....................how would you envision the world if Obama was president during WWII? Better?

Would the Japanese and Nazis simply have given up, and decided that the US was just too nice to kill?

We need to get rid of people like Obama from our government, and people like you need to wake up to reality.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 05:17:32 PM

With that^ are You condoning any future attacks on American civilians?   


And I don't believe women and children had the rights You speak of when we dropped the atomic bomb. As others have stated here, they were under "emperor" rule.

Wrong, you said that, I said they worshiped him like a God.
There is a huge difference, they are willing to sacrifice everything for their God.
One more time, read your history, and you wouldn't look so foolish.

Quote from: tbone0106 on July 17, 2012, 06:19:39 PM
Quick quiz -- Before August 6, 1945, how many atomic bombs had been detonated by the US?

Quick quiz-- How many countries have attacked people with an atomic bomb?   Is it's use on cities occupied by civilians a good thing?



Bonus question


Who else would've been for using the atomic bomb on civilian occupied cities, that is an enemy of the USA, and was recently captured, and killed?