Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2012, 02:07:13 PM
You don't seem to understand, all of Japan was at war, they were following the Emperor, a man who's word was that of a God.
I'm serious, you really need to learn some history, you're looking like a fool.

Not all of the people in the cities that were bombed were combatants.  Just because people are under Emperor rule doesn't make them all armed combatants. There were civilian women and children that were slaughtered by those bombs. It's not foolish to believe that wrong.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 02:04:28 PM
Just because a country is at war doesn't mean the country should condone the killing of civilians. Your link doesn't change that fact.

The civilians were part of the Japanese war machine. It was not soldiers that worked in the munitions factories in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Both the Germans and the Japanese were attacking civilian populations. We played by the rules that were set by the aggressors.

It's a concept that our apologizing president still fails to grasp.

Quote from: kramarat on July 17, 2012, 02:12:33 PM
The civilians were part of the Japanese war machine.

That^ is exactly the type of thinking that promotes civilian casualties.  People believe all Americans the same way, is it ok for them to kill our civilians? NO.


It's simple, we dropped atomic bombs on civilians that were unable to leave because they were under strict rule. And We knew they were under strict rule.  It's not good no matter how You shake it.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 02:12:13 PM

Not all of the people in the cities that were bombed were combatants.  Just because people are under Emperor rule doesn't make them all armed combatants. There were civilian women and children that were slaughtered by those bombs. It's not foolish to believe that wrong.

They were all followers of the Emperor, there's a huge distinction.
Would you please learn some history?

To date, Japan does not want an apology over the bombing, does that not tell you something?
Leadership: Leaked cables show Japan nixed a presidential apology to Hiroshima and Nagasaki for using nukes to end the overseas contingency operation known as World War II. Will the next president apologize for the current one?.

http://news.investors.com/article/587698/201110111829/apologies-not-accepted.htm?ven=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:%20EditorialRss%20%28Editorial%20RSS%29

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 02:19:34 PM
That^ is exactly the type of thinking that promotes civilian casualties.  People believe all Americans the same way, is it ok for them to kill our civilians? NO.


It's simple, we dropped atomic bombs on civilians that were unable to leave because they were under strict rule. And We knew they were under strict rule.  It's not good no matter how You shake it.

All soldiers start off as civilians. The Japanese would not have surrendered without the dropping of the bombs.

What you are suggesting, is that not dropping the bombs, and prolonging the war for possibly, years more, would have resulted in a better outcome. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The casualties on both sides would have continued mounting.

Do you really think that the kind and gentle Japanese wouldn't have drafted civilians to continue the fight?

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 02:19:34 PM
That^ is exactly the type of thinking that promotes civilian casualties.  People believe all Americans the same way, is it ok for them to kill our civilians? NO.


It's simple, we dropped atomic bombs on civilians that were unable to leave because they were under strict rule. And We knew they were under strict rule.  It's not good no matter how You shake it.

In truth, the bomb saved lives, but you don't want to believe that.
Maybe a little history lesson is in order again.

Perhaps the most tragic part of the loss of human life during the Battle of Okinawa was the Okinawans. Mostly uneducated peasants and fishermen, the local populace had been cowed by the Japanese military, and terrified by stories that the invading Americans would rape, torture and kill all civilians, including children. Japanese soldiers distributed grenades to the civilians and ordered them to commit suicide. Thousands of Okinawans did, some using the grenades, others resorting to hanging. In some instances mothers and fathers first killed their children, then themselves. The number of victims will never be known, but between the suicides and being caught in the middle of 82 days of explosive fighting, anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 Okinawans are estimated to have died.

The following two copyrighted newspaper articles were published by the Augusta Chronicle (Augusta, Georgia) on the front page of its April 2, 1945, issue:
http://www.newsinhistory.com/blog/pivotal-wwii-battle-okinawa-begins

Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2012, 02:42:57 PM
In truth, the bomb saved lives, but you don't want to believe that.

Again, that's not true, Solar. I've said that 'even if You are killing an innocent to save another innocent the action is still wrong.'


Do You not understand that?

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 02:47:43 PM

Again, that's not true, Solar. I've said that 'even if You are killing an innocent to save another innocent the action is still wrong.'


Do You not understand that?

But it is true, even the Japanese admitted so.
Why do you refuse to study history and use emotion to to come to conclusions?

Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2012, 03:28:41 PM
But it is true, even the Japanese admitted so.
Why do you refuse to study history and use emotion to to come to conclusions?

Why do You refuse to see the killing of children and unarmed Women as wrong?   

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 03:47:54 PM

Why do You refuse to see the killing of children and unarmed Women as wrong?

Because of evidence that I've provided proves the entire population was the enemy.
Sadly children were killed, but the blame does not rest on our shoulders, it is squarely in the laps of the Japanese people.

Read some Damned History for a change!
We dropped two bombs, Why? Because they were willing to sacrifice themselves all in the name of their Emperor, including the children.
Seriously, learn some history and quit implanting emotion on everything.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 03:47:54 PM

Why do You refuse to see the killing of children and unarmed Women as wrong?

You're out of context.

Three guys break into your house. One has a gun, the other two don't. You shoot and kill all three of them...............one was 15 years old.

Are you a cold blooded murderer?

Here are some numbers for you to peruse. Guess who was responsible for the civilian casualties in China? Please stop insisting that the dropping of the bombs didn't save lives. You are full of shit.

The bombs, as well as our defeat of the Nazis, stopped mass genocide in it's tracks.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/civilian_casualties_of_world_war.htm

Quote from: kramarat on July 17, 2012, 04:23:10 PM
You're out of context.

Three guys break into your house. One has a gun, the other two don't. You shoot and kill all three of them...............one was 15 years old.

Are you a cold blooded murderer?

You're out of context with that^. In this case We were breaking into their home aiming at everyone in the home. And, sadly, there were far more killed who were 15 and under.

You can say they broke in to Our home first, but that still doesn't give us the right to do something horrific in return.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 04:28:18 PM

You're out of context with that^. In this case We were breaking into their home aiming at everyone in the home. And, sadly, there were far more killed who were 15 and under.

You can say they broke in to Our home first, but that still doesn't give us the right to do something horrific in return.

Are you a Pacifist?

Quote from: rich_t on July 17, 2012, 04:35:36 PM
Are you a Pacifist?

No.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 17, 2012, 04:28:18 PM

You're out of context with that^. In this case We were breaking into their home aiming at everyone in the home. And, sadly, there were far more killed who were 15 and under.

You can say they broke in to Our home first, but that still doesn't give us the right to do something horrific in return.

Once again, it appears as if you refuse to read the links. 10,000,000 Chinese civilian casualties. Who do you think was behind them?

The Japanese needed to be stopped. They refused. They placed munitions factories, (intentionally), within civilian populations. They decided to take the gamble that the US wouldn't resort to using their own tactics against them.........................they were wrong.

War sucks.