QuoteToo many of my fellow Firearms Enthusiasts think there is no limits to 2A/RTKBA (I think felons , illegals, cartel growers & their henchmen & their families, pediphiles, CPUSA Street Rabble, recently arrived Muslim fundamentalists, and folks in Mental institutions or under care of Mental Help Specialists... should have limitations on their RTKBA

I thought this was an interesting point, and figured it was worthy of its own thread.

Is the protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms by the 2nd Amendment, Universal?

Since this is based on the Natural (or God Given, if you prefer) right of a person to defend himself, his property and his family from "criminals' as well as the government itself, it would seem to cover some of the "classes" the author exempted from 2nd Amendment protection.

For instance...

There are a whole slew of non-violent crimes which are considered to be felonies. Does a person, once convicted of such a crime lose his God Given right to self defense even after he/she has "paid their debt to society?"

Also...

If we can strip the God Given right to self defense based on nothing other than a person's religious beliefs (i.e. Fundamentalist Muslims) can the government then strip that right from any "fundamentalist" religion - such a Evangelical Christians.

Finally, the term "terrorist" is often a capricious one. Especially when that term, in regards to the protections of the 2nd Amendment, is defined by the Government.

What is to prevent them from defining "unorganized militias" as "terrorists"?

That should be enough to get things started.

Darth

It may help the posters/readers know what the Acronym 2A/RTKABA stands for.   

Quote from: walkstall on November 22, 2014, 12:13:09 PM
It may help the posters/readers know what the Acronym 2A/RTKABA stands for.   

2nd Amendment/Right To Keep And Bear Arms

I know... It took me a while too!

Darth

Quote from: Darth Fife on November 22, 2014, 11:45:46 AM
I thought this was an interesting point, and figured it was worthy of its own thread.

Is the protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms by the 2nd Amendment, Universal?

Since this is based on the Natural (or God Given, if you prefer) right of a person to defend himself, his property and his family from "criminals' as well as the government itself, it would seem to cover some of the "classes" the author exempted from 2nd Amendment protection.

For instance...

There are a whole slew of non-violent crimes which are considered to be felonies. Does a person, once convicted of such a crime lose his God Given right to self defense even after he/she has "paid their debt to society?"

There is a reason for stripping one of their Rights, such as voting. By felony, meaning serious crimes against people and the state, so entrusting them with a weapon is akin to giving a "supposed rehabilitated" pedophile access to children.

QuoteIf we can strip the God Given right to self defense based on nothing other than a person's religious beliefs (i.e. Fundamentalist Muslims) can the government then strip that right from any "fundamentalist" religion - such a Evangelical Christians.

I'm sure you can evidence this with a link?

QuoteFinally, the term "terrorist" is often a capricious one. Especially when that term, in regards to the protections of the 2nd Amendment, is defined by the Government.

Quite a broad brush, you have there, again, I'm sure you have ample evidence?

QuoteWhat is to prevent them from defining "unorganized militias" as "terrorists"?

That should be enough to get things started.

Darth

Terribly vague and misleading as a whole in your attempt to create a straw man, but I'll give you a D for effort.

Article II

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

We have the right to form militias, we have the right to bear arms.  Those rights shall NOT be infringed.  All the "exceptions" that the government has created to this amendment is b.s.  Further, this amendment is pretty cut and dry and all the interpretations over the years by various entities is b.s. as well.

It doesn't list exceptions, nor does it categorize "people".

You are granted this right when you become a LEGAL citizen of the United States of America.  Illegals, terrorists, religious factions, etc.,  should NOT be granted this right for political correctness.  Government created entities should not have the right to oversee and regulate this amendment.

As a Militiaman I do not want an armed (Convicted) pedophile in the ranks with me, if he exposes himself as such when things get tough (When our Families & children count on us / him )G-d help him.

Quote from: suzziY on November 22, 2014, 01:21:34 PM
Article II

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

We have the right to form militias, we have the right to bear arms.  Those rights shall NOT be infringed.  All the "exceptions" that the government has created to this amendment is b.s.  Further, this amendment is pretty cut and dry and all the interpretations over the years by various entities is b.s. as well.

It doesn't list exceptions, nor does it categorize "people".

You are granted this right when you become a LEGAL citizen of the United States of America.  Illegals, terrorists, religious factions, etc.,  should NOT be granted this right for political correctness.  Government created entities should not have the right to oversee and regulate this amendment.

Bingo!
In reading about the life of a serial killer during the 19th and 20 century crossover, he makes note of one town he planned on tackling, that everyone carried a sidearm, he said with this discovery, he hightailed it to another state where people had become more complacent with their safety.

This alone is proof that an armed citizenry is a peaceful and safe citizenry.

Quote from: Darth Fife on November 22, 2014, 12:40:34 PM
2nd Amendment/Right To Keep And Bear Arms

I know... It took me a while too!

Darth

Well not ever one is under the age of 70.     I get a e-mail form my daughter sometimes.  I have to call her and ask what the hell said.   

Quote from: Darth Fife on November 22, 2014, 12:40:34 PM
2nd Amendment/Right To Keep And Bear Arms

I know... It took me a while too!

Darth

Makes me think that you have passed right through the stages of SNAFU, TARFU, FUBAR, and the eventual BERFTA.

Quote from: AndyJackson on November 22, 2014, 03:11:55 PM
Makes me think that you have passed right through the stages of SNAFU, TARFU, FUBAR, and the eventual BERFTA.

BERFTA? OK, that's a new one for me.

Quote from: Solar on November 22, 2014, 01:30:37 PM
Bingo!
In reading about the life of a serial killer during the 19th and 20 century crossover, he makes note of one town he planned on tackling, that everyone carried a sidearm, he said with this discovery, he hightailed it to another state where people had become more complacent with their safety.

This alone is proof that an armed citizenry is a peaceful and safe citizenry.

All hail the great volunteer state of Tennessee.  To think I started out as a yankee, a new yawk boy.

This summer the dominating state conservative GOP legislature.....passed new laws that took all regulation off of open carry handguns, and knives of any length.  Now you only need a CC permit for concealed; open has no license.  And you may have a machete or Bowie or katana on your hip.

Polite and safe indeed.  I love living here, lol.  NTM we are about to kick the hell out of common core, and several other Obama-socialism scams.

Quote from: Solar on November 22, 2014, 03:17:12 PM
BERFTA? OK, that's a new one for me.

haha, I was just waiting for the query...and pregnant pause....

BUG  EYED  RED  FACED  TIGHT  ASSED  !!!  bwahahahaha

Quote from: AndyJackson on November 22, 2014, 03:19:44 PM
haha, I was just waiting for the query...and pregnant pause....

BUG  EYED  RED  FACED  TIGHT  ASSED  !!!  bwahahahaha

I know Darth's heart is in the right place, but akin to a rape victim, they tend to place everyone in the same "Suspect" box.

Quote from: Solar on November 22, 2014, 03:29:59 PM
I know Darth's heart is in the right place, but akin to a rape victim, they tend to place everyone in the same "Suspect" box.

I think this is a good example of what I said in the other thread.  A lot of people just WANT to be the good, fair, thoughtful, responsible person.  Especially conservatives whose entire lives are flavored by such things.

Everybody's railing against school shootings  ?  Well gosh, maybe we should really truncate that 2nd amendment thing, to look like we're using it "prudently".  I always think of GHWB's "prudent".

Sorry, it says that EVERY American citizen can have a gun.  For every reason that we all discuss.  The constitution and the 2nd have NO "imagined" or "perceived" qualifications.  Otherwise, any tinhorn Obama can start opining and slinging EO's on who the constitution is applicable or available to.

There are other solutions.  Proper mental health programs.  Proper law enforcement.  Proper community and family intervention.  You can't start slicing and dicing the constitution just because these things fail.  You have to make these things work.

Quote from: suzziY on November 22, 2014, 01:21:34 PM
Article II

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

We have the right to form militias, we have the right to bear arms.  Those rights shall NOT be infringed.  All the "exceptions" that the government has created to this amendment is b.s.  Further, this amendment is pretty cut and dry and all the interpretations over the years by various entities is b.s. as well.

It doesn't list exceptions, nor does it categorize "people".

You are granted this right when you become a LEGAL citizen of the United States of America.  Illegals, terrorists, religious factions, etc.,  should NOT be granted this right for political correctness.  Government created entities should not have the right to oversee and regulate this amendment.

Not quite.

The Second Amendment, like the rest of the first ten amendments -- the Bill of Rights -- was not written to assign a right or privilege to anyone. In fact it wasn't even part of the Constitution as first submitted to the states for ratification.

The right to keep and bear arms was assumed by the Founders to be the right of every free citizen. It was a right he obtained at birth, granted by God, a right that no power could modify or remove. The same can be said for freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to petition the government, freedom from unlawful search or seizure, and on and on. These were all 'assumed' rights in the minds of the founders. They were basic concepts of life that no one could possibly question, the Founders thought. The entire Constitution was written to prevent the new federal government from infringing on those rights.

Some states weren't comfortable with the concept of such 'assumed' rights, and demanded a listing of the basics -- hence the first ten amendments, later described as the "Bill of Rights." The Founders were probably tempted to insert the words "of course" in front of many of the clauses they constructed. In other words, it might have read, "... of course the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." But they didn't do that.

In summary, the Second Amendment, like most of the first ten amendments, is a descriptive declaration, not a claim of some new or unique right. In 1789, every state believed its individual citizens had the God-given right to keep and bear arms. But coming off a period of domination by a foreign crown that constantly sought to deny that right to its subjects, the states understandably wanted all the T's crossed and the I's dotted in the fancy new Constitution. The Second Amendment wasn't a cool new thing that the Founders discovered and added to the Constitution. It's just an explicit statement of what everybody already assumed to be the case.