Quote from: raptor5618 on October 06, 2016, 02:42:15 PM
Probably old enough to be your father. I remember when watching patriotic movies was the norm and not politically incorrect. When you did something wrong you were going to pay for it one way or another.   I am only years away from the day where it won't matter what happens here.  So I have seen lots, experienced lots and realize that calling someone a name is no way to conduct a discussion.  Silly I am not.  Pushing Trump I am not. I asked why because I cannot see the logic in just letting Hillary win. That is my view not me telling anyone what their view should be. So get off the I am pushing Trump.

I also am not delusional. I am certain that this country as we know it will be gone after 4 years of Hillary. I was sure that Obama would lead this country exactly as he did. I have seen many people just like him and it was clear that he was a know nothing that thought he knew it all and was going to lead based on an ideology and not based on what is best for this country.   

I can counter disagreement but there is nothing to discuss when the counter argument to what I say is an insult.  I also understand having hope and a vision of what could be.  But I have learned that what could be is not always possible and certainly not possible unless there is enough effort and energy to make it happen.  Germany and Italy took the path we are going down and it only ended when both countries were in rubbles. I certainly hope that is not where we are heading but I suspect that this country is headed towards a catastrophic ending where hopefully something good emerges but it would be so much better to find that good ending without the whole thing falling in around our ears. 

Cruz is a good honest person I believe but he is not the leader that can inspire much more than those who already believe.  Toss in all the damage that was done to his reputation and I think there is no hope that he is the person who will bring conservatism to the front.  The choir believes but the congregation needs to be convinced and I just do not think he has a chance of getting that chance with the non believers.  For my kids and grandkids I hope that someone with the right views and the ability to speak those views clearly emerges but I think that this election is surely is the one where the sun has finally dropped from the sky and the question of is it rising or setting is no longer a question that needs to be asked. 

I do not suspect that I will see either the collapse or the turn around.  But I guess from your demeanor that you are much younger than I and surely will see which path this country goes down.  So I believe that the path you chose is only possible if conservatives tolerate those who are not as convinced as they are, that they teach rather than lecture, that they give those who are not convinced time to understand and that most of all they learn to listen.  A closed elite conservative group is just as bad as a closed elite liberal group.   

Hussein did damage to the country because the GOP enabled it and didn't stop him.  We had the House since 2010, and majority since 2014.  Instead of stopping him, they gave him everything he ever wanted.  The Dems are dead.  It's the GOP that enables them and keeps them on life support.

You're fighting against the Dems.  I'm fighting against the Marxist GOP.

Quote from: raptor5618 on October 06, 2016, 01:27:54 PM
I am certainly not pushing Trump. So what are most of you doing on election day. I am not a shill and how calling me a name or insulting me is any different than what the Dems do is beyond my understanding.

BS, yes you are!!
Read the damn board and you would not have to ask.
BS again!  Every posts your pushing Trump.


Trust me I'm old enough to be your father or even your grandfather.   

Quote from: taxed on October 06, 2016, 02:47:11 PM
Hussein did damage to the country because the GOP enabled it and didn't stop him.  We had the House since 2010, and majority since 2014.  Instead of stopping him, they gave him everything he ever wanted.  The Dems are dead.  It's the GOP that enables them and keeps them on life support.

You're fighting against the Dems.  I'm fighting against the Marxist GOP.

I do not think the Dems are dead. But completely agree that fighting the GOP is a mistaken choice.  I also agree that we had this god awful election brought to us because the GOP basically flipped off everyone who voted them in.  The GOP proved to be impotent for reasons beyond my imagination.  But I do think that you fail to understand the dangers posed by the Dem's.   I suspect, no believe that these next 4 years will tell the tale.  The Dem's will have the white house and more seats in the Senate and House so they will have zero resistance there and the media has give up even an appearance of objectivity so they will parrot what ever they are told to say and trash those who dare oppose.  Our ability to defend ourselves will be gone and the narrative that deporting 10 million people is impossible but going into the homes of many more times than that to take our guns away will be no problem at all.  Brainwashing our kids will be on par with any totalitarian state you can name.   And those who were so supportive of this move towards the left will be shocked when they come for them.   

I think the words of Jefferson is going to the only hope we have and unfortunately it is not going to be very pretty and if it takes to long the end will be total anarchy like there was when the USSR fell.  Surely the Dem path will lead to a complete collapse eventually.  I want to say this is a pivotal election but perhaps the ability to pivot is past us now.  Maybe it does not matter which candidate you chose. The words I put into my recent posts reflect my hope that the downfall can be slowed and reversed but maybe Taxed is right that all is lost and things will only be righted when the time comes where we as a nation can put the pieces back together again. 

If it is a certainty that Hillary wins well I do believe that this will be the waterloo of the USA or whatever metaphor you choose for the point in time where the clock started running on the bomb that will explode this country into shambles.

Quote from: raptor5618 on October 06, 2016, 03:22:55 PM
I do not think the Dems are dead. But completely agree that fighting the GOP is a mistaken choice.  I also agree that we had this god awful election brought to us because the GOP basically flipped off everyone who voted them in.  The GOP proved to be impotent for reasons beyond my imagination.  But I do think that you fail to understand the dangers posed by the Dem's.   I suspect, no believe that these next 4 years will tell the tale.  The Dem's will have the white house and more seats in the Senate and House so they will have zero resistance there and the media has give up even an appearance of objectivity so they will parrot what ever they are told to say and trash those who dare oppose.  Our ability to defend ourselves will be gone and the narrative that deporting 10 million people is impossible but going into the homes of many more times than that to take our guns away will be no problem at all.  Brainwashing our kids will be on par with any totalitarian state you can name.   And those who were so supportive of this move towards the left will be shocked when they come for them.   

I think the words of Jefferson is going to the only hope we have and unfortunately it is not going to be very pretty and if it takes to long the end will be total anarchy like there was when the USSR fell.  Surely the Dem path will lead to a complete collapse eventually.  I want to say this is a pivotal election but perhaps the ability to pivot is past us now.  Maybe it does not matter which candidate you chose. The words I put into my recent posts reflect my hope that the downfall can be slowed and reversed but maybe Taxed is right that all is lost and things will only be righted when the time comes where we as a nation can put the pieces back together again. 

If it is a certainty that Hillary wins well I do believe that this will be the waterloo of the USA or whatever metaphor you choose for the point in time where the clock started running on the bomb that will explode this country into shambles.

The Dem's positions on their own always fail and get shot down all the time.  They need the GOP to push them through.

Quote from: taxed on October 07, 2016, 04:29:14 AM
The Dem's positions on their own always fail and get shot down all the time.  They need the GOP to push them through.

That's why there so many RINO's now in the GOP.

Quote from: raptor5618 on October 06, 2016, 12:19:44 PM
I sometimes wonder if Trump got in this thinking he would go on a good run and get out with some good publicity and some say in the GOP to help him grow his business even bigger.  He cannot be as inarticulate as he is so often and say things that anyone with a lick of sense knows is going to be twisted around.  One thing about the Libs they have no fear of making a long story up based on a tiny bit of information. Then they run with it like it was fact. Like the saying tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth.  They are ruthless and relentless. However, I think if Trump is a Dem plant he will get less done than Hillary because no one will support him. The libs won't allow the dems to vote for anything the R president wants and the GOP will find a backbone to resist him.

I think that he is the path of greatest resistance to the demise of this Republic.  If someone is coming at you and you do not have the weapon of choice on you, you use what is the best of what you have. I guess you can just lay down and take it but I just do not see that as a valid choice. The sad reality is that the conservative movement is not as relentless and cut throat as the libs. They over reality which often sucks but it is the way it is. The libs offer Utopia and a promise that nothing will ever be difficult for them.  Flat out BS but they say it with such confidence that who does not want to think that in a country like this we shouldn't get everything for nothing. 

The French resistance did what they could to fight the Nazi's and I think if someone believes that Trump is the biggest enemy of this country well then vote for Hillary and say that you are and just the opposite. I just cannot understand laying down and just taking it. I just do not see that as principled.  I get it that electing Trump is like fighting the evil empire with pebbles but the opportunity to go against Hillary with something better is past.  I know lots of you are going to toss out all kinds of names because of what I say but all I ask is that you say what you are going to do on election day and why that is the choice that provides the greatest resistance to the slope that this country is sliding down.   If you have a good rationale maybe I might follow it but for now I do not see a better choice.

Trump is about consolidation & empowerment... unfortunately, we're targeted.

Quote from: walkstall on October 07, 2016, 04:31:28 AM
That's why there so many RINO's now in the GOP.

I don't think they're as much RINOs as progressives.

The difference? Here's a HuffPo article to explain it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/whats-the-difference-betw_b_9140.html

Quote from: Ghoulardi on October 07, 2016, 07:49:43 AM
I don't think they're as much RINOs as progressives.

The difference? Here's a HuffPo article to explain it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/whats-the-difference-betw_b_9140.html

Sorry, that author is a liberal idiot. He fails to understand it's the libprog that created the mess in the first place so the Progressive could expand on the problem claiming govt control, or rather Nationalizing industry as in socialism as a remedy.
No, there is no difference in lib and Progressive, or RINO, they are all cut from the same cloth.

It literally has come down to the difference in whether you believe in big brother 'Cradle to Grave' big govt, or Liberty, and the current RINO is the Establishment big govt Progressive.

Quote from: Solar on October 07, 2016, 08:18:03 AM
Sorry, that author is a liberal idiot. He fails to understand it's the libprog that created the mess in the first place so the Progressive could expand on the problem claiming govt control, or rather Nationalizing industry as in socialism as a remedy.
No, there is no difference in lib and Progressive, or RINO, they are all cut from the same cloth.

It literally has come down to the difference in whether you believe in big brother 'Cradle to Grave' big govt, or Liberty, and the current RINO is the Establishment big govt Progressive.

Thank you for articulating that, Solar, much better than I could.

The unpleasant reality is that this is the last chance for any sort of Conservative or Republican to ever win a national election again. 

Those idealistic chaps who think that if hillary wins it might enable Ted Cruz to have a shot next time around....absolute nonsense...First of all it is not likely that hillary will even be able to fill out her term due to her health problems and her mate Kaine is a marxist...even to a greater extent than hillary.  4 more years of rule by the democratic party will enable the Feds to gain so much control over the nation that it will be impossible for a conservative to ever win again...free speech already compromised will be so eroded by the next election they may decide to just do away with elections altogether...along with your guns and your talk radio as well as honest political message boards (of which this one is not one) what I am saying you will see the strongest central government in our history...and due to all the problems that will soon manifest themselves....from a unsound economy to social unrest to terrorism and the Chinese and russian threats....martial law will very likely be inacted not long after hillary gets in.

If The Donald loses the Republican Party will split...it may even split if he wins.  Some say it has already split and with the bushes etc. backing hillary--a good case can be made for that.

If Trump manages to win he may be able to put together a viable new party composed primarily of Working Class Whites but he could attract a lot of Latino voters as well.

The establishment republicans, the tea party, the pc and liberal republicans are done...their constituency is way too small for them to have any possibility of ever winning a national election and their influence is dwindling by the second.

In a nutshell what we have now are the elitists and the minorities vs. the White Working Class...the republican elitists have shown they had rather see a democrat win than someone like Trump who has broad support amongst the White Working Class.

The elitist republicans  fear the White Working Class...and anyone who dares support or who tries to help them.  They feel they can work with the democrats....really not much  difference between the two groups.

If hillary wins she will complete Obama's promise to fundamentally change America....you will see millions of third world immigrants flock in here and this will speed up the demographic change that is already going on.......the Whites will become a minority much sooner if hillary gets in. 

There is no successful country in the world that has a majority black or hispanic population...that is where we are headed.

Thus the ramifications of a hillary victory are much greater than anyone on this board appears to understand.  It will be disastrous...it will be a game changer and it will mean America will continue its downward spiral at an accelerated rate.

While it appears The Donald has a good possibility of winning...I am very pessimistic about that....what can be said for an electorate that would vote someone like obama in twice?  The most serious charge that can be levied against them is that they have little regard for America...that they will go for someone that promises them more food stamps, more welfare etc. ....before they would vote for whoever is best for America.

So call me a doomsdayer or whatever...that is the way I see it...and that is the way I call it and no one more than myself hopes I am wrong.

Quote from: Ghoulardi on October 07, 2016, 08:25:17 AM
Thank you for articulating that, Solar, much better than I could.

Thanks, and that's not one of my strong suits, articulating anything.

Quote from: Coyote9 on October 07, 2016, 10:09:54 AM
The unpleasant reality is that this is the last chance for any sort of Conservative or Republican to ever win a national election again. 

Those idealistic chaps who think that if hillary wins it might enable Ted Cruz to have a shot next time around....absolute nonsense...First of all it is not likely that hillary will even be able to fill out her term due to her health problems and her mate Kaine is a marxist...even to a greater extent than hillary.  4 more years of rule by the democratic party will enable the Feds to gain so much control over the nation that it will be impossible for a conservative to ever win again...free speech already compromised will be so eroded by the next election they may decide to just do away with elections altogether...along with your guns and your talk radio as well as honest political message boards (of which this one is not one) what I am saying you will see the strongest central government in our history...and due to all the problems that will soon manifest themselves....from a unsound economy to social unrest to terrorism and the Chinese and russian threats....martial law will very likely be inacted not long after hillary gets in.

You put way tooo much faith in the GOP to do the right thing. They've proven they can't be trusted on any level.

QuoteIf The Donald loses the Republican Party will split...it may even split if he wins.  Some say it has already split and with the bushes etc. backing hillary--a good case can be made for that.

The GOP nis already in a three way split, the base, which makes up 60% of the party, the remaining participants are split between old RINO like Bush and McCain and the new progressive RINO aligning with Priebus.

QuoteIf Trump manages to win he may be able to put together a viable new party composed primarily of Working Class Whites but he could attract a lot of Latino voters as well.

Doubt it, half of his base were pissed off libs, hardly what anyone would call a majority of the party.

QuoteThe establishment republicans, the tea party, the pc and liberal republicans are done...their constituency is way too small for them to have any possibility of ever winning a national election and their influence is dwindling by the second.

You libs just don't get it! TEA is the base, the Conservative majority of the party, we have not died or gone away.

QuoteIn a nutshell what we have now are the elitists and the minorities vs. the White Working Class...the republican elitists have shown they had rather see a democrat win than someone like Trump who has broad support amongst the White Working Class.

Where do you get this crap? The elitists are the Establishment, the very scum that fought to get Trump elected and fought Cruz every step of the way.

QuoteThe elitist republicans  fear the White Working Class...and anyone who dares support or who tries to help them.  They feel they can work with the democrats....really not much  difference between the two groups.

If hillary wins she will complete Obama's promise to fundamentally change America....you will see millions of third world immigrants flock in here and this will speed up the demographic change that is already going on.......the Whites will become a minority much sooner if hillary gets in. 

There is no successful country in the world that has a majority black or hispanic population...that is where we are headed.

Thus the ramifications of a hillary victory are much greater than anyone on this board appears to understand.  It will be disastrous...it will be a game changer and it will mean America will continue its downward spiral at an accelerated rate.

While it appears The Donald has a good possibility of winning...I am very pessimistic about that....what can be said for an electorate that would vote someone like obama in twice?  The most serious charge that can be levied against them is that they have little regard for America...that they will go for someone that promises them more food stamps, more welfare etc. ....before they would vote for whoever is best for America.

So call me a doomsdayer or whatever...that is the way I see it...and that is the way I call it and no one more than myself hopes I am wrong.

LOL! You're under the illusion Trump actually wants to win?

Quote from: Solar on October 07, 2016, 12:44:53 PM
You put way tooo much faith in the GOP to do the right thing. They've proven they can't be trusted on any level.
The GOP nis already in a three way split, the base, which makes up 60% of the party, the remaining participants are split between old RINO like Bush and McCain and the new progressive RINO aligning with Priebus.
Doubt it, half of his base were pissed off libs, hardly what anyone would call a majority of the party.
You libs just don't get it! TEA is the base, the Conservative majority of the party, we have not died or gone away.
Where do you get this crap? The elitists are the Establishment, the very scum that fought to get Trump elected and fought Cruz every step of the way.
LOL! You're under the illusion Trump actually wants to win?

Solar, these Young, Idealistic & faithful to the Republican Party line types get their hopes of finding an establishment conservative DASHED after a few weeks in the DC area.   It's a pretty SAD day when the Millennials are sounding more conservative than the party bosses - sure, it's hope for the future, but leads me to wonder if the establishment isn't going to leave the country enslaved and shambles first.

Does this sound like communist indoctrination, or what?

Quotefrom Coyote9 - "If Trump manages to win he may be able to put together a viable new party composed primarily of Working Class Whites but he could attract a lot of Latino voters as well."

the Republican version of class division - Individuals belong to "political groups" - either Elites or Workers.   This kind of commie crap needs to be called out as unAmerican and ended.

Quote from: Hoofer on October 07, 2016, 02:00:29 PM
Solar, these Young, Idealistic & faithful to the Republican Party line types get their hopes of finding an establishment conservative DASHED after a few weeks in the DC area.   It's a pretty SAD day when the Millennials are sounding more conservative than the party bosses - sure, it's hope for the future, but leads me to wonder if the establishment isn't going to leave the country enslaved and shambles first.

Does this sound like communist indoctrination, or what?    the Republican version of class division - Individuals belong to "political groups" - either Elites or Workers.   This kind of commie crap needs to be called out as unAmerican and ended.

Bingo!!!
They're buying the PC leftist crap of "Divide and Conquer" as the norm. Damn sad....

Quote from: Coyote9 on October 07, 2016, 10:09:54 AM
The unpleasant reality is that this is the last chance for any sort of Conservative  to ever win a national election again. 

Man, I hate to tell you this, but you missed that train by about 20 years.