LIB-ertarian Johnson has Lib Meltdown

[Solar]

I'm not a "liberal", nor am I a "Soros tool".

I am a libertarian in the tradition of Ron Paul and Murray Rothbard.  I am a libertarian in the tradition of Ludvig von Mises, Frederich Hayek and Frederic Bastiat.

George Soros agitates for bigger government through the financial of political operatives involved in the Democratic Party.  I argue for the abolition of government to be replaced by the spontaneous order of the market, private law and private defense.

You are thinking along a fraudulent binary system whereby all political views can be placed into either "liberal" or "conservative" boxes.

It continues to amaze me how you simply refuse to acknowledge the facts that I've presented. 

I see pictures of people leaping to their deaths from the twin towers and I blame Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda.  I don't blame the religion of Islam because the motivations of the terrorists who attack us have almost nothing to do with Islam.  I've proved this again and again.  I've cited quotes from terrorists who have attacked us and I've posted lectures and interviews from experts who have studied this.

Nobody excuses terrorist attacks, but we also cannot excuse the deaths of innocent people at the hands of the United States military.  I'm just calling for consistency.

The general anger and resentment that many in the Muslim world feel about the United States is justified and understandable.  The purposeful targeting of innocent civilians by terrorists is not excusable.

Ron Paul argued for a foreign policy based on the "golden rule" during the 2012 presidential primaries.  He was booed for being a good Christian by un-Christian Evangelicals who, in their bloodlust, forget the teachings of their messiah.

Doing unto others as you'd have them do unto you is a Christian teaching. 

If your entire family was destroyed in a drone strike by a foreign nation, how would you feel towards that foreign nation?

This is such an elementary question, but too many conservatives choose to willfully ignore it.  They "other-ize" the Muslim world and deprive them of their humanity.  I suspect they do this so they don't have to confront the moral guilt they'd feel if they openly saw the devastation wrought by their foreign policy.

Describing Muslims as "cockroaches", "ragheads" and similar dehumanizing terms reveals this.

I suppose you think that the chance birth of a baby into a nation in the middle east means that their lives are forfeit?

During Bill Clinton's decade-long policy of sanctions and routine bombings in Iraq during the 1990s, an estimated 500,000 children died needlessly due to lack of access to food and medicine.

What did these children ever do to us?  Why is it permissible that our military snuff out their lives before they had a chance to experience life?

This is the sort of thing that makes moderate Muslims and decent people around the world angry and resentful of the military who carry out such atrocities and the American people who allow it to continue.

This is such goddamn simple common sense.  I'm convinced that it takes a willful act of deliberate self-deception to avoid the overwhelming evidence and convince yourselves that people are blowing themselves up to kill Americans simply because the Quran tells them to.

You were warned about derailing topics to the M/E, either get back on subject or stop posting.

[quiller]

(ADDED:   > SOROS TOOL   )



Your spirited defense of our enemies is noted. Tell that to Europeans who live even closer to terror than we do (although thanks to leftists like you the U.S. variety are indeed emboldened). Islam is a virulent, deadly disease wherever it has gone. It is a stain on homo sapiens, and its defenders either blind fools or witting accomplices.

[quiller]

You were warned about derailing topics to the M/E, either get back on subject or stop posting.

Oh, shucks....

[Possum]

I'm not a "liberal", nor am I a "Soros tool".

I am a libertarian in the tradition of Ron Paul and Murray Rothbard.  I am a libertarian in the tradition of Ludvig von Mises, Frederich Hayek and Frederic Bastiat.

George Soros agitates for bigger government through the financial of political operatives involved in the Democratic Party.  I argue for the abolition of government to be replaced by the spontaneous order of the market, private law and private defense.

You are thinking along a fraudulent binary system whereby all political views can be placed into either "liberal" or "conservative" boxes.

It continues to amaze me how you simply refuse to acknowledge the facts that I've presented. 

I see pictures of people leaping to their deaths from the twin towers and I blame Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda.  I don't blame the religion of Islam because the motivations of the terrorists who attack us have almost nothing to do with Islam.  I've proved this again and again.  I've cited quotes from terrorists who have attacked us and I've posted lectures and interviews from experts who have studied this.

Nobody excuses terrorist attacks, but we also cannot excuse the deaths of innocent people at the hands of the United States military.  I'm just calling for consistency.

The general anger and resentment that many in the Muslim world feel about the United States is justified and understandable.  The purposeful targeting of innocent civilians by terrorists is not excusable.

Ron Paul argued for a foreign policy based on the "golden rule" during the 2012 presidential primaries.  He was booed for being a good Christian by un-Christian Evangelicals who, in their bloodlust, forget the teachings of their messiah.

Doing unto others as you'd have them do unto you is a Christian teaching. 

If your entire family was destroyed in a drone strike by a foreign nation, how would you feel towards that foreign nation?

This is such an elementary question, but too many conservatives choose to willfully ignore it.  They "other-ize" the Muslim world and deprive them of their humanity.  I suspect they do this so they don't have to confront the moral guilt they'd feel if they openly saw the devastation wrought by their foreign policy.

Describing Muslims as "cockroaches", "ragheads" and similar dehumanizing terms reveals this.

I suppose you think that the chance birth of a baby into a nation in the middle east means that their lives are forfeit?

During Bill Clinton's decade-long policy of sanctions and routine bombings in Iraq during the 1990s, an estimated 500,000 children died needlessly due to lack of access to food and medicine.

What did these children ever do to us?  Why is it permissible that our military snuff out their lives before they had a chance to experience life?

This is the sort of thing that makes moderate Muslims and decent people around the world angry and resentful of the military who carry out such atrocities and the American people who allow it to continue.

This is such goddamn simple common sense.  I'm convinced that it takes a willful act of deliberate self-deception to avoid the overwhelming evidence and convince yourselves that people are blowing themselves up to kill Americans simply because the Quran tells them to.

Your whole damn argument is: had we never fired at shot at them they would have never fired a shot at us and this is where we do not agree. Even without firing a shot we would have been found guilty by the friends we keep meaning Great Britain and others who had fired shots. From Spain, France, Russia, Great Britain and the list goes on and on, have you noticed that the muslins have a problem with them and are spreading their terrorism to these countries also. Is that our fault too? Is everyone but muslims out of step? Some of the terriorist have claimed their acts were in response to attacks, but do you really think they are talking about national attacks here or attacks against muslims? Iran has an elected leader, but who do you think runs that country? Who in iran do you think is calling the shots. How about Afghanistan, Saudi, and the others? Terrorism is spread by muslims, it is their religion not their national policy that is behind their attacks. And no I did not watch your propaganda movies, I have seen enough of that bull shit to last a lifetime.

[Billy's bayonet]

Could you even bother to watch at least some of the videos I've posted on this topic?  Nearly every major Islamic terrorist attack against the United States over the past twenty years has been motivated entirely or in large part due to resentment over US military intervention into the middle east.  And the terrorists who plotted and committed these actions have not been shy about tell us explicitly WHY they were attacking us.




Okay thats it, I said I was finished with this thread but you've managed to piss me of to no end when you start to support the ENEMIES LIES against your own Countrymen.

FROM THE GRAVE this Bastard OBL continues to cause the dissension, the division  and the resentment among Americans this videotaped Schpiel was intended to cause. These lies he is spewing on that video are meant to do just that,  a fiendishly clever fanatic using a very subtle and sophisticated form of psychological warfare that is a known terror tactic. BLAME THE VICTIM FOR THE CRIME YOU COMMIT, It is like saying some creep is justified in raping a young girl because she is wearing a miniskirt and no Bra, And Like a big dumb ol' catfish chompin' on a stink bait you bit into it.

Did you ever do independent research on the 'Facts'in the OBL video or are you knee jerk bowing before that Jackass Pape and accepting his own convoluted logic as Gospel?

What the hell is the lying old bastard talking about anyhow, PALESTINIANS?..... WHEN WAS THAT? WHEN DID THE BOMBING HE IS REFERENCING IN THE VIDEO TAKE PLACE? After 9/11 when the US Invaded Afghanistan to GET HIM and his band of killers? Horseshit.  If he is reffering to the killing of Afghani civilians then HE CAUSED IT when he decided to take over the country HE HAD NO RIGHT TO and waged WAR against the Legitimate residents and indigineous successors like the Northern alliance as I have discussed previously. The Old Prick Killed abused and enslaved more Afghani's than all the US airstrikes to date FELLOW MUSLIMS including Using Civilians as HUMAN SHIELDS LIKE THE COWARD HE IS.

Palestinians he wants to talk about? How about the Palestinians that killed US CItizens Like The scum who shot a wheelchair bound old man, a US Citizen and threw him overboard when they hijacked the Achille Lauro. Palestinians that blow up Israeli school children, and hijack planes killing US Servicemen and Old women...LIKE ENTEBBE?

So 9/11 was is in response to muslim people the US Killed....which as I have already stated is a fraction of the MUSLIMS he and his thugs killed, BUT WHEN was that? WHEN IS HE TALKING ABOUT.

You DO know don't you, that 9/11 was planned by Al Qieda back in 1995 when it first came to the attention of the PHilippine National Police after they arrested one of OBL associates causing mischief in that country They told US officials. But Clinton, who like you hated and hamstrung and downsized the US military, did nothing even when he had the chance to take out OBL, BUT DIDN'T CAUSE OF THE CLOSE PROXIMITY OF CIVILIANS his chickenshit ass was hiding amongst.

It was fine for the US and British forces to stop Hitler, who held Arabs in complete contempt from taking over Arab lands. It was okay for the US to supply the Afghani freedom fighters with weapons, arms and aide during their spat with the Russians, and contrary to popular opinion OBL DID NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING FROM THE US even though we tried. It was fine for the US to stop Croats from murdering Ethnic Muslims in the Bosnian war, but the US killed 'Millions' of Muslims....horseshit.

He was so full of hatred towards the US because they had an INFIDEL ARMY supporting the ruling HOUSE OF SAUD whom he hated more than anything, this caused him to flee his country and make mischief elsewhere in the world.
He knew if the Muslim dream of a Caliphate were going to come true the US had to be out of Saudi Arabia and had to be thwarted from preventing such Caliphate RULED BY HIM from coming to fruition.

OBL cooked up this scheme years and years ago, he knew the US had to be nulified if he ever wanted to return to Saudi to establish his Caliphate AND CONTROL MECCA, he was a greedy, power mad mass Murderer. And you or Pape or Fuckging goofy from the cartoons trying to ennoble him as some sort of Justified avenger of the Muslim slaughtered innocents is an extreme distortion of the facts that borders on treason.

STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

And AL AwLaki did more than just "free speech" do your research on that as well, His son was Killed? good, probably being trained by  his father in the art of Jihad and spying

And as for your Hero Pape if he ever gets his flannel ass out from behind his desk and actually does something besides 'research' I'll gladly knock him on back his ass just on general principals..

[quiller]

BILLY'S POST TEXT FROM ABOVE.....

==

Okay thats it, I said I was finished with this thread but you've managed to piss me of to no end when you start to support the ENEMIES LIES against your own Countrymen.

FROM THE GRAVE this Bastard OBL continues to cause the dissension, the division  and the resentment among Americans this videotaped Schpiel was intended to cause. These lies he is spewing on that video are meant to do just that,  a fiendishly clever fanatic using a very subtle and sophisticated form of psychological warfare that is a known terror tactic. BLAME THE VICTIM FOR THE CRIME YOU COMMIT, It is like saying some creep is justified in raping a young girl because she is wearing a miniskirt and no Bra, And Like a big dumb ol' catfish chompin' on a stink bait you bit into it.

Did you ever do independent research on the 'Facts'in the OBL video or are you knee jerk bowing before that Jackass Pape and accepting his own convoluted logic as Gospel?

What the hell is the lying old bastard talking about anyhow, PALESTINIANS?..... WHEN WAS THAT? WHEN DID THE BOMBING HE IS REFERENCING IN THE VIDEO TAKE PLACE? After 9/11 when the US Invaded Afghanistan to GET HIM and his band of killers? Horseshit.  If he is reffering to the killing of Afghani civilians then HE CAUSED IT when he decided to take over the country HE HAD NO RIGHT TO and waged WAR against the Legitimate residents and indigineous successors like the Northern alliance as I have discussed previously. The Old Prick Killed abused and enslaved more Afghani's than all the US airstrikes to date FELLOW MUSLIMS including Using Civilians as HUMAN SHIELDS LIKE THE COWARD HE IS.

Palestinians he wants to talk about? How about the Palestinians that killed US CItizens Like The scum who shot a wheelchair bound old man, a US Citizen and threw him overboard when they hijacked the Achille Lauro. Palestinians that blow up Israeli school children, and hijack planes killing US Servicemen and Old women...LIKE ENTEBBE?

So 9/11 was is in response to muslim people the US Killed....which as I have already stated is a fraction of the MUSLIMS he and his thugs killed, BUT WHEN was that? WHEN IS HE TALKING ABOUT.

You DO know don't you, that 9/11 was planned by Al Qieda back in 1995 when it first came to the attention of the PHilippine National Police after they arrested one of OBL associates causing mischief in that country They told US officials. But Clinton, who like you hated and hamstrung and downsized the US military, did nothing even when he had the chance to take out OBL, BUT DIDN'T CAUSE OF THE CLOSE PROXIMITY OF CIVILIANS his chickenshit ass was hiding amongst.

It was fine for the US and British forces to stop Hitler, who held Arabs in complete contempt from taking over Arab lands. It was okay for the US to supply the Afghani freedom fighters with weapons, arms and aide during their spat with the Russians, and contrary to popular opinion OBL DID NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING FROM THE US even though we tried. It was fine for the US to stop Croats from murdering Ethnic Muslims in the Bosnian war, but the US killed 'Millions' of Muslims....horseshit.

He was so full of hatred towards the US because they had an INFIDEL ARMY supporting the ruling HOUSE OF SAUD whom he hated more than anything, this caused him to flee his country and make mischief elsewhere in the world.
He knew if the Muslim dream of a Caliphate were going to come true the US had to be out of Saudi Arabia and had to be thwarted from preventing such Caliphate RULED BY HIM from coming to fruition.

OBL cooked up this scheme years and years ago, he knew the US had to be nulified if he ever wanted to return to Saudi to establish his Caliphate AND CONTROL MECCA, he was a greedy, power mad mass Murderer. And you or Pape or Fuckging goofy from the cartoons trying to ennoble him as some sort of Justified avenger of the Muslim slaughtered innocents is an extreme distortion of the facts that borders on treason.

STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

And as for your Hero Pape if he ever gets his flannel ass out from behind his desk and actually does something besides 'research' I'll gladly knock him on back his ass just on general principals..

== (END OF QUOTE)

[walkstall]

I think if I were to try and fix that post I would mess it up. 

[quiller]

I think if I were to try and fix that post I would mess it up.

And that's why I treated it, above, as I did. I hope Billy approves.

[Billy's bayonet]

And that's why I treated it, above, as I did. I hope Billy approves.

Glad you did, I messed it up to begin with but instead of straightening it out I was so damn mad I had to go down and punch the body bag for a few minutes, arthritis and all.

[walkstall]

Glad you did, I messed it up to begin with but instead of straightening it out I was so damn mad I had to go down and punch the body bag for a few minutes, arthritis and all.

That's ok Billy, these kids will vote themselves free stuff.  But will not lift a hand to keep there free speech.

[jrodefeld]

[quite] Okay thats it, I said I was finished with this thread but you've managed to piss me of to no end when you start to support the ENEMIES LIES against your own Countrymen.

FROM THE GRAVE this Bastard OBL continues to cause the dissension, the division  and the resentment among Americans this videotaped Schpiel was intended to cause. These lies he is spewing on that video are meant to do just that,  a fiendishly clever fanatic using a very subtle and sophisticated form of psychological warfare that is a known terror tactic. BLAME THE VICTIM FOR THE CRIME YOU COMMIT, It is like saying some creep is justified in raping a young girl because she is wearing a miniskirt and no Bra, And Like a big dumb ol' catfish chompin' on a stink bait you bit into it.

Did you ever do independent research on the 'Facts'in the OBL video or are you knee jerk bowing before that Jackass Pape and accepting his own convoluted logic as Gospel?

What the hell is the lying old bastard talking about anyhow, PALESTINIANS?..... WHEN WAS THAT? WHEN DID THE BOMBING HE IS REFERENCING IN THE VIDEO TAKE PLACE? After 9/11 when the US Invaded Afghanistan to GET HIM and his band of killers? Horseshit.  If he is reffering to the killing of Afghani civilians then HE CAUSED IT when he decided to take over the country HE HAD NO RIGHT TO and waged WAR against the Legitimate residents and indigineous successors like the Northern alliance as I have discussed previously. The Old Prick Killed abused and enslaved more Afghani's than all the US airstrikes to date FELLOW MUSLIMS including Using Civilians as HUMAN SHIELDS LIKE THE COWARD HE IS.

Palestinians he wants to talk about? How about the Palestinians that killed US CItizens Like The scum who shot a wheelchair bound old man, a US Citizen and threw him overboard when they hijacked the Achille Lauro. Palestinians that blow up Israeli school children, and hijack planes killing US Servicemen and Old women...LIKE ENTEBBE?

So 9/11 was is in response to muslim people the US Killed....which as I have already stated is a fraction of the MUSLIMS he and his thugs killed, BUT WHEN was that? WHEN IS HE TALKING ABOUT.

You DO know don't you, that 9/11 was planned by Al Qieda back in 1995 when it first came to the attention of the PHilippine National Police after they arrested one of OBL associates causing mischief in that country They told US officials. But Clinton, who like you hated and hamstrung and downsized the US military, did nothing even when he had the chance to take out OBL, BUT DIDN'T CAUSE OF THE CLOSE PROXIMITY OF CIVILIANS his chickenshit ass was hiding amongst.

It was fine for the US and British forces to stop Hitler, who held Arabs in complete contempt from taking over Arab lands. It was okay for the US to supply the Afghani freedom fighters with weapons, arms and aide during their spat with the Russians, and contrary to popular opinion OBL DID NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING FROM THE US even though we tried. It was fine for the US to stop Croats from murdering Ethnic Muslims in the Bosnian war, but the US killed 'Millions' of Muslims....horseshit.

He was so full of hatred towards the US because they had an INFIDEL ARMY supporting the ruling HOUSE OF SAUD whom he hated more than anything, this caused him to flee his country and make mischief elsewhere in the world.
He knew if the Muslim dream of a Caliphate were going to come true the US had to be out of Saudi Arabia and had to be thwarted from preventing such Caliphate RULED BY HIM from coming to fruition.

OBL cooked up this scheme years and years ago, he knew the US had to be nulified if he ever wanted to return to Saudi to establish his Caliphate AND CONTROL MECCA, he was a greedy, power mad mass Murderer. And you or Pape or Fuckging goofy from the cartoons trying to ennoble him as some sort of Justified avenger of the Muslim slaughtered innocents is an extreme distortion of the facts that borders on treason.

STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

And AL AwLaki did more than just "free speech" do your research on that as well, His son was Killed? good, probably being trained by  his father in the art of Jihad and spying

And as for your Hero Pape if he ever gets his flannel ass out from behind his desk and actually does something besides 'research' I'll gladly knock him on back his ass just on general principals..

Do you understand that I am not defending any terrorist attacks, least of all the attacks on 9/11?  What I am saying is that Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda were motivated primarily by resentment over US occupation of Muslim nations and war crimes committed against the Muslim people.  Osama said it explicitly as have nearly all terrorist attackers since.

Yes, Osama was also angry at the United States for supporting Israel and turning a blind eye to war crimes committed against the Palestinian people.  In my opinion, the United States should not be supporting Israel financially and we should not be afraid to speak out in support of a two-State solution.  Nor should we be afraid to criticize Israel for their shoddy treatment of the Palestinian people on the West Bank.

If you create an atmosphere of general resentment towards the United States due to your constant interventions into the middle east, it is logical that this would foster a resentment and some people will seek drastic measures to fight back.  I don't condone the purposeful targeting of civilians (I keep repeating this because you don't seem to get it) but the general anger that gives rise to terrorist attacks is something that can be understood.

Osama bin Laden is a bastard, all right?  I'm not condoning his actions whatsoever.  But he and Al Qaeda were not capable of killing the numbers of people that the US military has. 

I agree with one thing you said though.  Bill Clinton COULD have killed Osama bin Laden and he should have.  Also, there was plenty of evidence that suggested a planned attack against the World Trade Center.  Bill Clinton is culpable in not acting upon this intelligence and George W. Bush is culpable as well.

But Bill Clinton is ALSO culpable in repeatedly bombing Iraq and imposing crippling sanctions against that country for the entire duration of his presidency.

You did make a startling claim though.  You said that Osama bin Laden has killed many more Muslims than the United States military.  This is absolutely false.  It's ludicrously false.  Even before 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq, the United States military had killed, directly or indirectly, hundreds of thousands, and likely as much as one million Muslims just during the 1990s.  And estimates are that the United States has killed over a million more since the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Are you honestly claiming that Osama bin Laden is personally responsible for killing two million Muslims?  Do you just make up facts?

Of course, murder is murder.  Saying that someone has not killed as many people as the United States military is faint praise, after all.  I'm not even intending to praise Osama bin Laden at all.  I'm only making the factual point that the United States military has killed vastly more Muslims over the past twenty five years than Muslims have killed Americans.  This is an absolute fact.  If you want to dispute this, I'd ask you to cite hard statistics and prove your case.  Don't just make vacuous assertions.

There was an important article written on this subject by Stephen Walt:

Tom Friedman had an especially fatuous column in Sunday's New York Times, which is saying something given his well-established capacity for smug self-assurance. According to Friedman, the big challenge we face in the Arab and Islamic world is "the Narrative" — his patronizing term for Muslim views about America's supposedly negative role in the region. If Muslims weren't so irrational, he thinks, they would recognize that "U.S. foreign policy has been largely dedicated to rescuing Muslims or trying to help free them from tyranny." He concedes that we made a few mistakes here and there (such as at Abu Ghraib), but the real problem is all those anti-American fairy tales that Muslims tell each other to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions.

I heard a different take on this subject at a recent conference on U.S. relations with the Islamic world. In addition to hearing a diverse set of views from different Islamic countries, one of the other participants (a prominent English journalist) put it quite simply. "If the United States wants to improve its image in the Islamic world," he said, "it should stop killing Muslims."

Now I don't think the issue is quite that simple, but the comment got me thinking: How many Muslims has the United States killed in the past thirty years, and how many Americans have been killed by Muslims? Coming up with a precise answer to this question is probably impossible, but it is also not necessary, because the rough numbers are so clearly lopsided.

Here's my back-of-the-envelope analysis, based on estimates deliberately chosen to favor the United States. Specifically, I have taken the low estimates of Muslim fatalities, along with much more reliable figures for U.S. deaths.

To repeat: I have deliberately selected "low-end" estimates for Muslim fatalities, so these figures present the "best case" for the United States. Even so, the United States has killed nearly 30 Muslims for every American lost. The real ratio is probably much higher, and a reasonable upper bound for Muslim fatalities (based mostly on higher estimates of "excess deaths" in Iraq due to the sanctions regime and the post-2003 occupation) is well over one million, equivalent to over 100 Muslim fatalities for every American lost.

Please read the entire article:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2009/11/30/why-they-hate-us-ii-how-many-muslims-has-the-u-s-killed-in-the-past-30-years/


And, please explain the justification for killing Anwar Al-Awlaki and his 16 year old son?  Both were American citizens who had the Constitutional right to due process.  You can't claim to be "Constitutional Conservatives" one minute, then abandon it when the founding document gets in the way of murdering Muslims.


Pulled post out of quote I hope.
walks. 

[jrodefeld]

That's ok Billy, these kids will vote themselves free stuff.  But will not lift a hand to keep there free speech.

I don't want "free stuff".  Why do you all keep insisting that I am a liberal?  I've stated it plainly again and again.  I am a radical libertarian.  This means that I support either a VERY limited State, or the complete abolition of the State.  I'm against the Welfare State, I'm against Socialism and I am in favor of the free market.

The politician that I identify with the most is Ron Paul.  I have a few minor disagreements with him, but if you want to know what my political views are, you could look at what Ron Paul has written and you'd have a pretty good idea.

Yes, I'm younger than y'all but that doesn't mean I'm clueless. 

[walkstall]

I don't want "free stuff".  Why do you all keep insisting that I am a liberal?  I've stated it plainly again and again.  I am a radical libertarian.  This means that I support either a VERY limited State, or the complete abolition of the State.  I'm against the Welfare State, I'm against Socialism and I am in favor of the free market.

The politician that I identify with the most is Ron Paul.  I have a few minor disagreements with him, but if you want to know what my political views are, you could look at what Ron Paul has written and you'd have a pretty good idea.

Yes, I'm younger than y'all but that doesn't mean I'm clueless.

Not according to the BS your flinging young man.  You read books but you have not live what we have lived through.  Have you live any place other than your nose in a book and a class room?

[Ghoulardi]

Yes, I'm younger than y'all but that doesn't mean I'm clueless.

Younger? Don't worry, you'll grow out of it.

Clueless? Try naive. Your presenting a wold that doesn't exist. As I said in an earlier post (which you never answered) Human history is NOT the history of making friends.

They're mad at us because of what we did to them, you say. So why did we do it to them? Why aren't they taking responsibility for what they did (to make us do what we did).

The US military killed their citizens, you say. Why? We don't intervene without reason, so what was the reason?

In all that research, did you find the answer to those questions?

A little one sided, don't you think?

[jrodefeld]

Not according to the BS your flinging young man.  You read books but you have not live what we have lived through.  Have you live any place other than your nose in a book and a class room?

Older people have the benefit of experience that younger people don't have.  We all know that.  But in a discourse, we try to arrive at the truth through argumentation. 

Speaking down to me because I'm younger does not qualify as an argument.  It actually doesn't serve any purpose.

Ya'll seem extremely dismissive of empirical data, studies and the work of journalists and professors.  The only links I've seen any of you post in response to anything I've said are extremely biased anti-Muslim websites like "TheReligionofPeace".  I usually weed out polemics and seek hard data.  I admire Robert Pape because he is very rigorous and scientific.  He makes all his data available for anyone to look over.  He's very much a scientist and he doesn't allow his preconceived notions to color his conclusions.