Legal Definition of Murder

[cubedemon]

First you need to understand the legal definition of murder: "Unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being

This is what Solar said what the legal definition of murder.  In other words, murder is what the law says it is.  Different nations have different laws throughout different time periods.  By legal definition, the Nazis never committed murder of anyone and neither did Stalin and his communist regime since they defined what was legal.

[Cryptic Bert]

This is what Solar said what the legal definition of murder.  In other words, murder is what the law says it is.  Different nations have different laws throughout different time periods.  By legal definition, the Nazis never committed murder of anyone and neither did Stalin and his communist regime since they defined what was legal.

How are the Nazi's not guilty of murder if the key is premeditation? They constructed camps [Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek, Buchenwald, Dachau etc] for the sole purpose of kill  Jews en masse? How is that not premeditation?

[Billy's bayonet]

This is what Solar said what the legal definition of murder.  In other words, murder is what the law says it is.  Different nations have different laws throughout different time periods.  By legal definition, the Nazis never committed murder of anyone and neither did Stalin and his communist regime since they defined what was legal.

Murder as defined by SOLAR is pretty much the common law definition, the UNLAWFUL Killing of another, that is universal throughout various countries.

Murder under statutory law is usually classed as Homicide, Homicide may be justified or unjustified, Degree's of homicide are often broken down....Murder 1, Murder 2, manslaughter, negligent homicide, depending on premeditation, criminal intent etc.

[cubedemon]

Murder as defined by SOLAR is pretty much the common law definition, the UNLAWFUL Killing of another, that is universal throughout various countries.

Murder under statutory law is usually classed as Homicide, Homicide may be justified or unjustified, Degree's of homicide are often broken down....Murder 1, Murder 2, manslaughter, negligent homicide, depending on premeditation, criminal intent etc.

Ah I see.  Makes sense.

[Billy's bayonet]

Ah I see.  Makes sense.

Just because some tyrant says its not "murder" doesn't mean it is or mean it is legal....The Nazi's....the Japanese Imperial army (who probably killed more people than the SS) WERE ALL HELD TO ANSWER FOR THEIR CRIMES, the executions after the Nuremburg trails, and the execution of Japanese Prison camp guards, commanders and even the supreme commander Yamashita proves this.

Plus, The Nazi's....as well as the Japanese tried to hide their crimes from their citizenry.....many of the German Wermacht had no idea what the SS was doing. Many of the Japanese people had no idea what their soldiers who invaded Manchuria and later the rest of southeast Asia we're doing.

So if these people thought what they were doing was "legal" why did they take steps to hide their genocide?

[cubedemon]

Just because some tyrant says its not "murder" doesn't mean it is or mean it is legal....The Nazi's....the Japanese Imperial army (who probably killed more people than the SS) WERE ALL HELD TO ANSWER FOR THEIR CRIMES, the executions after the Nuremburg trails, and the execution of Japanese Prison camp guards, commanders and even the supreme commander Yamashita proves this.

Plus, The Nazi's....as well as the Japanese tried to hide their crimes from their citizenry.....many of the German Wermacht had no idea what the SS was doing. Many of the Japanese people had no idea what their soldiers who invaded Manchuria and later the rest of southeast Asia we're doing.

So if these people thought what they were doing was "legal" why did they take steps to hide their genocide?

Billy, I understand what you're saying.   I've read about the Nuremberg trials.   There has to be a greater law that applies to all of us that is outside of legal legislation. 

I'll look at it in a different way.  Would one want it done to him?  If I imagine myself as others than I must ask if others would want that.  I say no.

One can look at Kohlberg's stages of morality.  http://u.jimdo.com/www39/o/s43cb258bf6a74d3d/img/ie2a4e0bc5e85eec2/1370068054/std/image.jpg

[Billy's bayonet]

Billy, I understand what you're saying.   I've read about the Nuremberg trials.   There has to be a greater law that applies to all of us that is outside of legal legislation. 

I'll look at it in a different way.  Would one want it done to him?  If I imagine myself as others than I must ask if others would want that.  I say no.

The greater law you are talking about is CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, genocide ETHNIC CLEANSING, all are so horrific to the human conciousness that something must be done COLLECTIVELY to groups of individuals who act in concert to commit such acts, the Govt en masse must be held accountable if necessary.

I think nowadays that terrorism, especially Islamic terrorism must be held to the same standard, any financing, facilitation, aiding and abetting in any way must be dealt with in the same manner as those who pull a trigger or wield a beheading blade.

Terrorist's should be put on trial by military tribunal and hung, that includes the financiers, enablers and abbetors.

[cubedemon]

The greater law you are talking about is CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, genocide ETHNIC CLEANSING, all are so horrific to the human conciousness that something must be done COLLECTIVELY to groups of individuals who act in concert to commit such acts, the Govt en masse must be held accountable if necessary.

I think nowadays that terrorism, especially Islamic terrorism must be held to the same standard, any financing, facilitation, aiding and abetting in any way must be dealt with in the same manner as those who pull a trigger or wield a beheading blade.

Terrorist's should be put on trial by military tribunal and hung, that includes the financiers, enablers and abbetors.

Agreed!

What I do fear is that in pursuant of a monster that we become like the monster.  Not saying we are though.   As long as we have the people who blog, write their representatives, bitch, moan, question, I think our country will be alright in the end.  In spite of our nation being polarized, we're going to be alright.  When nothing gets discussed or is allowed to be discussed I will start to become extremely worried.

In the end, I think we as a nation will be okay.   We're on here discussing these things, right?  So, I think we will A-ok.  what do you think?

[Billy's bayonet]

The other problem you have nowadays is Moral Men, who should be our collective consciousness are being, shouted down by tyrants in the making.

[Darth Fife]

How are the Nazi's not guilty of murder if the key is premeditation? They constructed camps [Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek, Buchenwald, Dachau etc] for the sole purpose of kill  Jews en masse? How is that not premeditation?

Just playing devil's advocate here...

Were they constructed with the sole purpose of killing Jews en-masse? Or, were they more along the lines of the Japanese interment camps the U.S. had in WWII?

Yes, there were crematory ovens (I'm pretty sure our modern prisons have crematory ovens, but we aren't committing mass murder in the U.S. - or are we?) , and yes, prisoners died in mass numbers there, but then, also, Germany was loosing the war and it only makes sense that supplies to these camps would dwindle down to nothing and the prisoners would starve and die in large numbers by the time they were Liberated by the Allies!

If the unthinkable had happened and the U.S. had lost the war, I wonder what kind of condition the "liberating" German and Japanese forces would find in the U.S. interment camps...

[kit saginaw]

In the end, I think we as a nation will be okay.   We're on here discussing these things, right?  So, I think we will A-ok.  what do you think?

Stay tuned, CPF-visitors....  More stunningly banal debate-topics are on the way...

[cubedemon]

Stay tuned, CPF-visitors....  More stunningly banal debate-topics are on the way...

I looked up the definition of banal. I'm being literal and not being a smartass by asking you this. Can you show me a topic, any topic, on CPF that is actually original, not trite, and not commonplace?   

[kit saginaw]

I looked up the definition of banal. I'm being literal and not being a smartass by asking you this. Can you show me a topic, any topic, on CPF that is actually original, not trite, and not commonplace?

Yeps.  Look around.  But remember; 'commonplace' in the moment that 'commonplace' arrives in a timely topical-form... 'trite' as viewed from an unrealistic pantheon of self-elevation... and 'actually original' ˙ʇɐɯɹoɟ ǝnbıun ʎןɥbıɥ ɐ uı pǝʇuǝsǝɹd ʇɔǝظqns ɐ sɐ.

c'mon... 'the legal definition of murder' ?  -Starting with a public slap-attempt against Solar ?   That's banal.     

[cubedemon]

Yeps.  Look around.  But remember; 'commonplace' in the moment that 'commonplace' arrives in a timely topical-form... 'trite' as viewed from an unrealistic pantheon of self-elevation... and 'actually original' ˙ʇɐɯɹoɟ ǝnbıun ʎןɥbıɥ ɐ uı pǝʇuǝsǝɹd ʇɔǝظqns ɐ sɐ.

c'mon... 'the legal definition of murder' ?  -Starting with a public slap-attempt against Solar ?   That's banal.   

not trying to slap him but attempting to make sense of certain things some people say and/or believe

[Billy's bayonet]

Just playing devil's advocate here...

Were they constructed with the sole purpose of killing Jews en-masse? Or, were they more along the lines of the Japanese interment camps the U.S. had in WWII?

Yes, there were crematory ovens (I'm pretty sure our modern prisons have crematory ovens, but we aren't committing mass murder in the U.S. - or are we?) , and yes, prisoners died in mass numbers there, but then, also, Germany was loosing the war and it only makes sense that supplies to these camps would dwindle down to nothing and the prisoners would starve and die in large numbers by the time they were Liberated by the Allies!

If the unthinkable had happened and the U.S. had lost the war, I wonder what kind of condition the "liberating" German and Japanese forces would find in the U.S. interment camps...

There is overwhelming evidence that Himmler (the designer of the holocost) intended to do just that. Those who were capable of slave labor.....production of war materials were put to use while others were killed en masse. They kept designing more efficient ways of killing Jews.

The Japanese targeted the chinese....the Money people in Asia, and concentrated on plundering thier assets and just killing them without bothering to confine them.....more efficient.

In the US we seemed more intent on confining these people so as not to cause mischief.