Colorado Baker Sued for Refusing Gender Transition Cake

[ZenMode]

Again,, you are making crap up, stop it or start providing proof.
Genesis 2:24
"For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh."

"Generally speaking, Genesis 2:24 is the basis for marriage since it speaks of a man and a woman being joined together and becoming one flesh. Of course, different cultures have different means by which this joining is officiated. But, marriage is considered a socially acceptable union between a man and a woman who publicly covenant to remain committed to and faithful to each other to the exclusion of others."


  Just for your understanding, again, marriage is a religious act to join a man and a woman. PERIOD. Why do you insist on changing the definition? Why are you pretending that a man can marry another man? THAT DOES NOT FIT THE DEFINITION OF WHAT MARRIAGE IS. 

Stop pretending that it is the Christians who are trying to change the definition of marriage, it is liberals like yourself who are too damn lazy to look up the crap they are spreading. This has NOTHING to do with separate but equal, the definition of marriage is a man and a woman. PERIOD!

That is exactly what I'm proposing - get government completely out of "marriage", that way churches can "marry" whoever they want. The government cannot do this "separate but equal" stuff that religious people want.

[Possum]

That is exactly what I'm proposing - get government completely out of "marriage", that way churches can "marry" whoever they want. The government cannot do this "separate but equal" stuff that religious people want.

Sorry, going to have to call you out, again. Here is what you posted,

freedom is allowing consenting adults to form a legal bond with whoever they want, not who Christians want.

So, you want the government out of it while not allowing Christians to abide by the definition of marriage.


You keep using the phrase "stuff that religious people want.", as if it is the Christians or rather EVERY OTHER RELIGION TOO, that wants to change the definition of marriage. WRONG! It is the leftist liberals like yourself that want/have to change the definition. You have to change it otherwise there can be no gay marriage.


 Post the proof that gays have always been allowed to marry, as you have posted as truth. Post the proof where it is the Christians who are trying to change to definition of marriage in order to stop gays from marrying. Your lying bull crap is getting to be too much.

[Sick Of Silence]

Sorry, going to have to call you out, again. Here is what you posted,

So, you want the government out of it while not allowing Christians to abide by the definition of marriage.


You keep using the phrase "stuff that religious people want.", as if it is the Christians or rather EVERY OTHER RELIGION TOO, that wants to change the definition of marriage. WRONG! It is the leftist liberals like yourself that want/have to change the definition. You have to change it otherwise there can be no gay marriage.


 Post the proof that gays have always been allowed to marry, as you have posted as truth. Post the proof where it is the Christians who are trying to change to definition of marriage in order to stop gays from marrying. Your lying bull crap is getting to be too much.

Proof, or retract.

[Solar]

You're saying atheists and gays can have their own designation, but it's still the same.  So, separate but equal? Where have I heard that before?

Probably in social studies, when they talked about the Constitution.
You know, "Equal Under The law".  Life is not fair, did they ever teach you that?

Nope. I want the government to NOT discriminate based on religion, which they are required to do.

And still you fail to understand, the govt has ZERO say in Religion!!
They are barred from even looking into religion in any form. That's why what Biteme proposes is unconstitutional!!!

Here's the issue, and I mentioned it early on, I believe. Christians, when they made up 95 or more of the country, wanted to force THEIR religion on everyone by having state governments legislate the legal joining of two people as the term "marriage".

You're a Goober! Marriage is a celebration that comes with its own special set of laws pertaining to inheritance etc.
It's all about family and procreation! You know, children created within wedlock, and a parents responsibility over said children. You know, things like keeping them safe from the govt, schools, pedophiles, etc.
The very thing you're supporting the govt in destroying!

[Solar]

That is exactly what I'm proposing - get government completely out of "marriage", that way churches can "marry" whoever they want. The government cannot do this "separate but equal" stuff that religious people want.

GOVT IS Completely out of marriage, with the single exception of the IRS, which should never have been created in the first place!!!
Marriage license is a County registrar level issue!

[T Hunt]

You're saying atheists and gays can have their own designation, but it's still the same.  So, separate but equal? Where have I heard that before?

Nope. I want the government to NOT discriminate based on religion, which they are required to do.
Here's the issue, and I mentioned it early on, I believe. Christians, when they made up 95 or more of the country, wanted to force THEIR religion on everyone by having state governments legislate the legal joining of two people as the term "marriage". That's why we have to get a marriage license from the state to have our relationships legally recognized.  Marriage should have been the ceremony that is performed by a pastor, bishop, etc in a church or wherever. The act of legally registering that with the state didn't have to be called marriage/marriage license but, again, Christians ran the country and they chose to intersect religion and government, right?

Now, states have two choices a) get government completely out of the marriage business for all Americans or offer "marriage" licenses to nobody and leave "marriage" to churches and their ceremonies. That way individual churches CAN decide who gets to be married, which is what they want to do.

Separate but Equal is not a legal solution.

Ahhh so I was right! You are just an atheist who is triggered by the fact that freedom OF religion doesnt mean freedom FROM religion     

You cant stand that we are a secular christian nation, always have been and always will be.

You can admit that atheism is a very bad and dangerous ideology, right? You can admit that athiests own all the deaths from the communism, which is founded on atheist ideology? Or do you deny these facts as well?

[Solar]

Ya know what's funny here?
Zen is actually learning what the Bill of Rights mean.
           

[T Hunt]

That is exactly what I'm proposing - get government completely out of "marriage", that way churches can "marry" whoever they want. The government cannot do this "separate but equal" stuff that religious people want.

LOL except its no seperate but equal, its not seperate at all. We already proved to you that gays have always had the same marriage rights as straits, they just want MORE rights than everyone else. You are the one calling for the govt to intervene, you are the side that NEEDS the govt to enact your will.

So why do you lie and say that you are for equality?

[T Hunt]

Ya know what's funny here?
Zen is actually learning what the Bill of Rights mean.
           

He will stop on this soon enough. He knows hes losing on the facts and logic so he needs a deflection.

[ZenMode]

Sorry, going to have to call you out, again. Here is what you posted,

So, you want the government out of it while not allowing Christians to abide by the definition of marriage.


You keep using the phrase "stuff that religious people want.", as if it is the Christians or rather EVERY OTHER RELIGION TOO, that wants to change the definition of marriage. WRONG! It is the leftist liberals like yourself that want/have to change the definition. You have to change it otherwise there can be no gay marriage.


 Post the proof that gays have always been allowed to marry, as you have posted as truth. Post the proof where it is the Christians who are trying to change to definition of marriage in order to stop gays from marrying. Your lying bull crap is getting to be too much.

I'm going to try to clarify because there seems to be confusion. There are two things I am referring to here. One is a marriage ceremony which takes place involving a pastor, for example.  There is absolutely no need for government in order to perform those ceremonies. Gays have been doing church ceremonies for years before gay marriage became legal. Polygamists have also been doing church marriage ceremonies for decades. If a group of Christians existed on a deserted island, where there was literally no government, they could perform marriage ceremonies all day everyday, however they wished.

The other "marriage"  is the recognition, by the states, of the legal bond between two people. There is nothing anymore religious about this legal bond than there is when you register your car with the state or agree to specific conditions when you sign your mortgage papers with a bank. It's just a legal agreement with specific conditions.

What I am saying is that the state needs to get out of the "marriage"  business for everyone or no one. Churches should be allowed to do marriages exactly as they please and the state should have a process of registering the legal bond between two people that does not involve the word marriage. If the state is using the term "marriage"  to recognize that bond, they cannot discriminate and only offer it to some people.

[Possum]

I'm going to try to clarify because there seems to be confusion. There are two things I am referring to here. One is a marriage ceremony which takes place involving a pastor, for example.  There is absolutely no need for government in order to perform those ceremonies. Gays have been doing church ceremonies for years before gay marriage became legal. Polygamists have also been doing church marriage ceremonies for decades. If a group of Christians existed on a deserted island, where there was literally no government, they could perform marriage ceremonies all day everyday, however they wished.

The other "marriage"  is the recognition, by the states, of the legal bond between two people. There is nothing anymore religious about this legal bond than there is when you register your car with the state or agree to specific conditions when you sign your mortgage papers with a bank. It's just a legal agreement with specific conditions.

What I am saying is that the state needs to get out of the "marriage"  business for everyone or no one. Churches should be allowed to do marriages exactly as they please and the state should have a process of registering the legal bond between two people that does not involve the word marriage. If the state is using the term "marriage"  to recognize that bond, they cannot discriminate and only offer it to some people.

AGAIN, you are changing the definition of marriage. It was the government that allowed for gays to marry. It was the government that allowed people to marry outside the church. Now you are telling us how you feel and what you think it should be. Nobody cares what you think or feel.  Marriage is the union of a man and a women, it says so right in the bible when God created marriage. All you are doing is dancing around the goalposts and it is getting old.

[Solar]

I'm going to try to clarify because there seems to be confusion. There are two things I am referring to here. One is a marriage ceremony which takes place involving a pastor, for example.  There is absolutely no need for government in order to perform those ceremonies. Gays have been doing church ceremonies for years before gay marriage became legal. Polygamists have also been doing church marriage ceremonies for decades. If a group of Christians existed on a deserted island, where there was literally no government, they could perform marriage ceremonies all day everyday, however they wished.

The other "marriage"  is the recognition, by the states, of the legal bond between two people. There is nothing anymore religious about this legal bond than there is when you register your car with the state or agree to specific conditions when you sign your mortgage papers with a bank. It's just a legal agreement with specific conditions.

What I am saying is that the state needs to get out of the "marriage"  business for everyone or no one. Churches should be allowed to do marriages exactly as they please and the state should have a process of registering the legal bond between two people that does not involve the word marriage. If the state is using the term "marriage"  to recognize that bond, they cannot discriminate and only offer it to some people.

Yet on the other hand you argue for govt interference? So you want the govt out, by using its power to change the law?      

The idea behind a marriage and a county level certificate is record keeping, so generations to come can follow their DNA and to know more about their lineage.
Fags can do the same, they can register their union as well, but ask yourself, who in the future will care?

"Oh look, uncle jack was a fag"! No kids coming out of that train wreck.      

It ends there. But there's not one thing preventing them from recording their relationship. It's just that no one will ever give a shit.

[Solar]

AGAIN, you are changing the definition of marriage. It was the government that allowed for gays to marry. It was the government that allowed people to marry outside the church. Now you are telling us how you feel and what you think it should be. Nobody cares what you think or feel.  Marriage is the union of a man and a women, it says so right in the bible when God created marriage. All you are doing is dancing around the goalposts and it is getting old.

He came into this thinking Govt created marriage.    

See how much he is learning?

[Sick Of Silence]

I'm going to try to clarify because there seems to be confusion. There are two things I am referring to here. One is a marriage ceremony which takes place involving a pastor, for example.  There is absolutely no need for government in order to perform those ceremonies. Gays have been doing church ceremonies for years before gay marriage became legal. Polygamists have also been doing church marriage ceremonies for decades. If a group of Christians existed on a deserted island, where there was literally no government, they could perform marriage ceremonies all day everyday, however they wished.

The other "marriage"  is the recognition, by the states, of the legal bond between two people. There is nothing anymore religious about this legal bond than there is when you register your car with the state or agree to specific conditions when you sign your mortgage papers with a bank. It's just a legal agreement with specific conditions.

What I am saying is that the state needs to get out of the "marriage"  business for everyone or no one. Churches should be allowed to do marriages exactly as they please and the state should have a process of registering the legal bond between two people that does not involve the word marriage. If the state is using the term "marriage"  to recognize that bond, they cannot discriminate and only offer it to some people.

Proof, or retract.

[ZenMode]

What do you mean? Proof of what?