Chicago's Holiday Toll Was 82 Shootings, 14 Deaths

[Possum]

I think my focus would be to break the back of drug gangs.  That's where I would put a lot of resources.

You would need to break the gangs period. The gangs are well armed while the average citizen can not own a gun. These guns are illegal but the police can not find them???? I find it hard to believe the police in Chicago can not find the gang members but any 4 year old can identify who belongs to what gang.

[Billy's bayonet]

You would need to break the gangs period. The gangs are well armed while the average citizen can not own a gun. These guns are illegal but the police can not find them???? I find it hard to believe the police in Chicago can not find the gang members but any 4 year old can identify who belongs to what gang.

Speaking form experience....it isn;t that easy.

On another thread I really got into it with some board members over the rule of law the COnstitution and COps due process etc.

Back in my day I was involved in several Joint Local and Federal task forces aimed at cutting off drug trafficking and targeting illegal guns in the District of Columbia and environs.

I think I've gone over this a few times but once again, working with the ATF (Pre Waco) we would target gang bangers (Jamacian possee's, local hoodlums and white trash MC types) obtaining guns through surrogate purchase in Virginia, west Virginia etc, bringing them into DC and dispursing them, through sales or distribution to other gang members.

One summer, we must have made over five hundred arrests, dismantled several major drug operation (Heroin) seized close to 1000 firearms and I can't even remember how many pounds of heroin, crack and other drugs, along with money, cars etc.

Despite that effort there were still 400 drug related homicides for the next two years.

The problem is the law and the odds are on the side of criminals and they know it. We had maybe twenty plainclothesmen and feds involved in these operations, plus assistance from uniformed street patrolmen......how many crooks are there, more than twenty on one street corner.....the odds sir, the odds.

Doing things legally IE getting warrants, surveillance, filling out affidavits for warrants and all that....it' not as easy as you think. Then when you do make a case the courts turn 'em loose to await trial.

The problem you have now is these cities don;t want some task force targeting gangs because Obamao and his band of hoodlums consider this harrassment, "profiling" and and of course racists because the overwhelming majority are black or hispanic.

I'm thinking what we might need is a good dose of armed vigilantism begining at the borders....if the Govt won;t protect us as they are supposed to them maybe the citizenry needs to take advantage of that part in the 2nd about a well regulated militia.

[Dori]

I'm thinking what we might need is a good dose of armed vigilantism begining at the borders....if the Govt won;t protect us as they are supposed to them maybe the citizenry needs to take advantage of that part in the 2nd about a well regulated militia.

Remember after 911 when a lot of citizens went down to the border?  Bush called them vigilantes, when they were mostly retired folks with lawn chairs and binoculars. 

[Billy's bayonet]

Remember after 911 when a lot of citizens went down to the border?  Bush called them vigilantes, when they were mostly retired folks with lawn chairs and binoculars.

Not really, There was an organization (or operation) called RANCH RESCUE that was formed by the guy who is the publisher of "Soldier of Fortune" magazine, I think his name is Mike Brown (?) this group was organized to go down to the border to protect PRIVATE PROPERTY of ranchers on the border who had problems with hordes of illegals running through their land, tearing down cattle fences etc, this group was not only supposed to protect private property but rebuild fences, round up stray cow etc.

I had an invitation to join this organization which was made up of a lot of retired cops, border patrol men, military and former deputy sheriffs.

I didn't for the simple reason there were too many idiot, 'cowboy' and wanna be types that wouldn't listen in addition to the professionals. I suggested that anyone operating armed get a security guard license IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAWS OF THOSE STATES....and get hired by the rancher under LEGAL contract for one dollar, doing so would give a private security guard authority to apprehend trespassers on private property and hold them for the cops under STATE LAW...these guys wouldn't listen and wanted to go the free for all route.....so I stayed out knowing is was gonna be a disaster.

Later, they went down to texas, got into a running gun battle with a bunch of Coyotes smuggling drugs on private property, then they held some illegals at gunpoint....Rick Perry made a big issues out of this and had the local sheriff's prosecute these guys or try to.  So two things, first you get too many idiots involved in something who don't pay attention to the law and do it the right way you get into trouble later, second, Rick Perry is no friend of private property owners, citizen militias or anything else. This is just one of many reasons I would never support him for President. It is more complicated than what I've just said here, you had these Hispanic right groups screaming bloody murder and putting a lot of pressure on Perry and others. But the point is...he caved.

The group who went down to the border with lawn chairs and Binocular and cell phones are the Minute men....generally worthless.

[Possum]

Speaking form experience....it isn;t that easy.

On another thread I really got into it with some board members over the rule of law the COnstitution and COps due process etc.

Back in my day I was involved in several Joint Local and Federal task forces aimed at cutting off drug trafficking and targeting illegal guns in the District of Columbia and environs.

I think I've gone over this a few times but once again, working with the ATF (Pre Waco) we would target gang bangers (Jamacian possee's, local hoodlums and white trash MC types) obtaining guns through surrogate purchase in Virginia, west Virginia etc, bringing them into DC and dispursing them, through sales or distribution to other gang members.

One summer, we must have made over five hundred arrests, dismantled several major drug operation (Heroin) seized close to 1000 firearms and I can't even remember how many pounds of heroin, crack and other drugs, along with money, cars etc.

Despite that effort there were still 400 drug related homicides for the next two years.

The problem is the law and the odds are on the side of criminals and they know it. We had maybe twenty plainclothesmen and feds involved in these operations, plus assistance from uniformed street patrolmen......how many crooks are there, more than twenty on one street corner.....the odds sir, the odds.

Doing things legally IE getting warrants, surveillance, filling out affidavits for warrants and all that....it' not as easy as you think. Then when you do make a case the courts turn 'em loose to await trial.

The problem you have now is these cities don;t want some task force targeting gangs because Obamao and his band of hoodlums consider this harrassment, "profiling" and and of course racists because the overwhelming majority are black or hispanic.

I'm thinking what we might need is a good dose of armed vigilantism begining at the borders....if the Govt won;t protect us as they are supposed to them maybe the citizenry needs to take advantage of that part in the 2nd about a well regulated militia.

Its harder than that, there seems to be little neighbor pressure to stop the violence. Can you imagine what could be accomplished if the neighborhoods worked with the police?

[quiller]

(. . . ) there were too many idiot, 'cowboy' and wanna be types that wouldn't listen in addition to the professionals. I suggested that anyone operating armed get a security guard license IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAWS OF THOSE STATES....and get hired by the rancher under LEGAL contract for one dollar, doing so would give a private security guard authority to apprehend trespassers on private property and hold them for the cops under STATE LAW...these guys wouldn't listen and wanted to go the free for all route.....so I stayed out knowing is was gonna be a disaster.

( . . . )  So two things, first you get too many idiots involved in something who don't pay attention to the law and do it the right way you get into trouble later, second, Rick Perry is no friend of private property owners, citizen militias or anything else. This is just one of many reasons I would never support him for President. It is more complicated than what I've just said here, you had these Hispanic right groups screaming bloody murder and putting a lot of pressure on Perry and others. But the point is...he caved.

The way you describe it, it's lifted straight out of a Lonesome Doves plot. 

That $1 contract and licensed-to-carry makes really good sense. They wouldn't have to transport anyone but merely hold them for pick-up.

[Billy's bayonet]

The way you describe it, it's lifted straight out of a Lonesome Doves plot. 

That $1 contract and licensed-to-carry makes really good sense. They wouldn't have to transport anyone but merely hold them for pick-up.

More like an episode of Andy Griffith in which Barney is in charge and Otis the drunk and goober are his lieutenants.

FOr reference about legalities, Licensed security guards duly contracted in the jurisdiction they are licensed in have the power of arrest/detention ON PRIVATE PROPERTY they are hired to protect. Most states have that Law. The clowns running that operation thought I was trying to cash in on "their idea" or were unwilling to shell out the few bucks it would have cost to open a licensed security agency in compliance with State law....so they went in like gang busters and got busted themselves.

This was about 2002, so I went back overseas and got a lucrative contract training foreign cops and a little bodyguard work on the side....(off the books....)

[red_dirt]

I think if we were to have a frank discussion about the 2nd Amendment, which no one really wants to get into, we would have to account for the demographic changes that have occurred in America since the framing of the US Constitution.

People would jump down my throat at this suggestion, but we truly  have a house divided against itself, as Lincoln noted. There seems to be no way out other than holding fast to our right to bear. Let's face it, the issue is government tyranny.

The white Protestant Christians  who framed the Constitution had a history most of us are completely unaware of. That is no accident. Now we have a very large demographic who have turned the guns against, not authoritarian tyrants, but against innocent, unarmed citizens. And I am not talking about Dylann Roof.
Dylann Roof is statistically insignificant.

How we cope with this is anyone's guess. What we are doing now is not working.
Replacing Obama is the obvious first step.

[Dori]

People would jump down my throat at this suggestion, but we truly  have a house divided against itself, as Lincoln noted. There seems to be no way out other than holding fast to our right to bear. Let's face it, the issue is government tyranny.

True.  This isn't a top down war.  It's a bottom up war.  They only way to turn this country around is through the culture.  That means getting the upper hand in education, and the media.  If there is not a strong effort on the conservative side to change the culture, or at least stop it's insane progression, this country as we understood it to be, will eventually slip away. 

The crazy stuff that's in the news is hard to counter, especially with the instant social media, like fb, twitter, etc.   Some dumb young girl who is a teenage idol of sorts, is going around licking doughnuts and saying she hates America.  This was picked up on a camera in doughnut shop.  Where did she get the "hate America" from?  It's probably what she's been hearing since she was in kindergarten. 

Last night I was channel surfing, and looking at our local public broadcast station.  On the evening's lineup was the BBC news, and documentaries on White Privilege, the gay agenda, and one more liberal thing about race and the police or something, I can't remember.  A whole evening of extreme left propaganda.  It seems like everywhere you turn, we are being bombarded with this crap, and the one's most affected are our youth. 

[red_dirt]

True.  This isn't a top down war.  It's a bottom up war.
It seems like everywhere you turn, we are being bombarded with this crap, and the one's most affected are our youth.

Obama's legions, 6% of the American people, want the youth to believe that America and her system are unfair, corrupt, and unsustainable.  On top of that, they want to scare the daylights out of the people with the threat that we either convert to one world communism or face the wrath of the underclass. All these crimes, beat downs, all that, are intentional, directed at intimidating the citizens.

Of course it is all intentional. The overall strategy, of which this is but a part,  is now Tea Party 101.